http://www.nypost.com/sports/35584.htm

BARGAIN BASEMENT

PETER VECSEY

December 3, 2004 -- AIDED and abetted by the Raptors' rookie coach, Sam Mitchell, Vince Carter has devalued himself to such a degree in the first 17 games of the season that Isiah Thomas' skeleton crew may be inching into inside position for his stained services.

Earlier this week in Miami, during an astonishing victory considering a season high 34 points and 17 rebounds by Shaq, Carter was the Raptors' SEVENTH leading scorer; five points off nine lousy shots for a guy pocketing $12.9 million this season and $13.8M, $15.1M and $16.3M over the next three.

But, hey, at least the floundering franchise player was doin' time for a change when this game was decided instead of bein' served a bench warrant. For whatever reason — defensive indifference, offensive nonchalance, couldn't care less — Carter has in dry dock the entire fourth quarter three times.

Not this time, though. The perpetual All-Star may not have been intimately involved in point production, but at least he was doin' something right — in Mitchell's mind, anyway — to justify his presence on the floor, where he was almost completely ignored.

Surely that would change when the Raptors broke a time-out huddle for the game's most important possession at 92-all. Others had gotten a chance in the closing minute or so to ice the Heat and failed. Surely it had to be Carter's turn now with 20-something seconds remaining in regulation. Surely he'd steal the last scene. Surely the critical scheme would have his DNA all over it.

After all, how long can a superstar hide in the weeds without utilizing his skills to vaguely near capacity? How long can a team's official scorer hang out on the perimeter without regularly being called upon or called out? How long can one of the NBA's most prized and publicized players remain a decoy before his pride ruptures or he depreciates altogether?

I informed the kid sitting next to me the ball would wind up in Carter's hands for the final shot. When Rafer Alston dribble-penetrated toward the center of the paint, I told him to look for a kick-out to Carter in the corner, from where he would take it strong to the rack. I would've bet anything that would be the play, which is why there's such a heavy demand for loan sharks.

Alston never so much as pretended to pass to Carter or faked a peripheral peek his way. Mitchell's strategy was designed for none other than 6-10 Donyell Marshall, fresh off the injured list, stationed in 3-point territory. Fortunately for the Raptors, his misguided missile clanked wide left to Jalen Rose, whose two subsequent free throws at the 15.9 mark ultimately settled matters — the game, as well as Carter's future in Toronto.

Despite Thursday night's trivial pursuit of 21 points while getting sandblasted, 129-108, by the Magic and a recent statement re his willingness, if not eagerness (he can't bring himself to lie to that level), to remain a Raptor, all Carter's vital signs are flashing warnings of wanting out.

The semi-retired flash-dancer exhibits little love for the game, has practically no bounce in his step and has become an infrequent flyer, the combination of which translates to a 7-year career low in scoring average (under 15) and field goal (40) percentage. All staged, no doubt, to wear out his welcome and save his legs for a stateside employer, preferably Camp Cablevision.

Naturally, all of the above, the half-steppin' and the disinterest is imprudently irrelevant as long as teams like the Knicks, Blazers, Bulls, Hornets and Grizzlies keep foggin' up GM Rob Babcock's phone lines with persistent, if not heavy, panting.

Indisputably, Carter's stock is down appreciably. At the same time, Babcock remains commendably patient. All it takes is one head-over-heels suitor and the Raptors are liable to get what they want. And what they want is to include Rose's 3-year commitment ($14.4M/$16.6M/$16.9M) in any deal involving Carter.

The Knicks, though not flaunting especially enticing assets (Tim Thomas and Penny Hardaway; Toronto would save nearly $48.5M in the process) have always been willing to comply with that stipulation.

Babcock thinks there's better where that came from. So he's hanging tough, praying Carter's self-respect and market value don't completely deflate and hoping a more striking proposal is forthcoming in terms of enhanced talent and fewer years and guaranteed money.

The Blazers appear to be the only other team that can qualify on both scores. Plus, they've got the urge. Since the summer there have been all sorts of offers, counter-offers and rejections. Within the last week, the Raptors declined a straight-up deal involving Shareef Abdul-Rahim for Carter and two others consisting of a first round draft pick and either Damon Stoudamire or Nick Van Exel.

Again, the Raptors insist Rose be included. From what I'm told, the Blazers are seriously thinking about it, to the point of scouting Carter scrupulously against the Heat and the Magic. Sources say Babcock was asked a few days ago if he'd accept Derek Anderson's 3-year ($8.4M/$9M/$9.7M) pact along with Shareef ($14.6M) and Van Exel ($11.9M; next year's $12.8M isn't guaranteed) or Stoudamire ($12.5M) as part of the package.

That's where it stands. Neither side has committed one way or the other, but something could happen at any moment. If it doesn't, should the Blazers back off for good after what they may or may not have seen in Florida, the Knicks, indeed, may have established inside position.

For better or for worse.

carter and rose for TT and penny? ummmm thats a tuff one cuz, those 2 players are way better than our two players but.. it would make our team even more lopsided than it already is.. **** it.. i might just do it... then trade A. Houston to Denver for one of their big men (they need a shooter badly)

How would Carter, Houston, Crawford, and Rose, let alone Ariza, ever get sufficient PT to keep them all happy?

In addition, unless Isiah has a deal worked out for a C, he would lose two players who will have $25 million of expiring contracts after the season, that could be his most important trading chips.

Consequently, I would be against the trade unless there is another trade for a C that is ready to be completed.

Getting Curry, Nene, or Kwame should be Isiah's overriding priority.

I would hate this. The one thing we don't need right now is another scorer (especially one who needs the ball as much as Carter).
If we're going to trade TT and Penny's contracts, please trade them for a defender or a big man, not the most expensive toy on the market.

I'll admit, i counted the words in that sentance.

Hands up anyone else?

Sheesh, I really need to get a life.

Rose for a draft pick? The guy has 3 years left on his deal, no way that happens. Only a team under the cap would do it, and they got that way by staying away. All we know Webber might definatly not want to play with rose. Why, Cuz they already did once!

The only way this works is to trade Allan if he returns to form. Its a hard contract to sell, and I doubt we get a big in return. I don't know if Denver is in "win now panic" stage. Nene does not have a returning contract that matches.

I just don't see for all the reasons mentioned how this trade works for us. Rose and Carter are really not good at the SF position, thus we then have 4 shooting guards earning the salary exceeding many small countries. Toronto is smart to dump rose if they can.

Would rose then play SF? At 6-8 he has the height, but is he tough enough to grap rebounds?

Carter is pretty much a shooting guard, and we got lots there.

I would prefer we get in on a three way were we can get a big instead of carter. I can live with Rose in place of penny, I can live without TT, and if need be, Either Nazr or KT if it yields Curry.

I want to move younter and bigger, not bloated and selfish.

Posted by diderotn:

I understand and agree with what you are saying Nalod, but Carter can benefit the Knicks for future trade, specially if he puts up big numbers playing with Marburry. If he plays well and basically goes back to the old dunker/scorer that we know that he could be, we could turn around and trade him maybe to a team with lack of a super-star for a Center. I can live with either Carter or Houston playing the SF position, because in any given night, we could have a dominant player on the floor. Once Houston's contract expires, we could get rid of him.

Posted by Nalod:

Rose for a draft pick? The guy has 3 years left on his deal, no way that happens. Only a team under the cap would do it, and they got that way by staying away. All we know Webber might definatly not want to play with rose. Why, Cuz they already did once!

The only way this works is to trade Allan if he returns to form. Its a hard contract to sell, and I doubt we get a big in return. I don't know if Denver is in "win now panic" stage. Nene does not have a returning contract that matches.

I just don't see for all the reasons mentioned how this trade works for us. Rose and Carter are really not good at the SF position, thus we then have 4 shooting guards earning the salary exceeding many small countries. Toronto is smart to dump rose if they can.

Would rose then play SF? At 6-8 he has the height, but is he tough enough to grap rebounds?

Carter is pretty much a shooting guard, and we got lots there.

I would prefer we get in on a three way were we can get a big instead of carter. I can live with Rose in place of penny, I can live without TT, and if need be, Either Nazr or KT if it yields Curry.

I want to move younter and bigger, not bloated and selfish.

I think GMs are well aware NAzrs recent play is against very weak teams.

Carter is an injury risk, but more so if he is future trade bait. If he gets hurt, we are screwed holding him possibly for a very long time!

Its a very Checketts/Layden starphuching thing to do, that is why I say no.

Posted by fishmike:

I wouldnt do that either... not enough balls to shoot and we need bigs, not wing players. That gives you Crawford, Marbury, Rose, VC and Houston for at least 2 years. Thats like $65mm a year in shooters. Its ridiculous. Its better to to just let Penny and TT walk, save the $30mm and use that money to upgrade center or get a legit bigman. Nazr's expiring $5.5mm is the real trading asset next season, not TT and Penny.

TT and Penny's expiring contracts will be huge trade assets. What team wouldn't want the chance to get rid of a huge amount of salary? It's one thing to argue that it's unrealistic to expect the Knicks to use both contracts to take back more salary (which we've already discussed), but to say that they won't be real trade assets is not true. Any expiring max contract is a huge trade asset, especially if combined with a decent young player or a draft pick.

this is a fantasy trade. will kill our chemistry and eat our best assets.

don't see the reward for us.

not really Bonn, smaller contracts are worth more. If we use TT or Penny's deal in a trade it means your taking 2-3 players back, and at least 2 of them are going to have long term deals. Didnt we learn our lesson with Shandon? How many more $20 mill contracts can MSG eat?

Again... our payroll is OVER $100mm. At some point there needs to be fiscal responsibility, or you pay later.