there is a reason bench/role players are just that. 15-20 minutes of good play doesnt = 35-40 minutes of good play. This was how Layden ruined the team.. constantly assuming that good role players could be elevated to good starters. Suddenly Ward stunk, Camby got hurt, and Travis/Shandon/Howard/Clarence wasnt as good as one Ewing.

JYD is great comming off the bench for 15-20 minutes as he can defend 3 positions. He's especially great when you stick him and Nazr out with 3 shooters as the two of them vacuum up so many offensive boards and get tips.

JYD = good role player... glad we have him

Posted by newyorknewyork:

I very much understand the what have u done for me latley mentality. And I also understand most will judge these games TT has played and forget everything else about his 9yr career. But TT is better than what he has been playing and will eventually get back to it. As a matter of fact I currently see him getting back to the level he played for us last season though the bruised thigh seemed to have slow him down.
[Edited by - newyorknewyork on 12/02/2004 13:05:38]

Umm. What has he done in his 9 year career? His regular season career average in points is 11.8 per game. His rebounds per game is 4.10. His playoff numbers are not much better (12.8 and 4.6). I don't think you can look at those numbers and say he is starter material.

[Edited by - NYKBocker on 12/02/2004 13:29:02]

TT came off the bench behind Glen Robinson in Miluakee where he spent most of his career. Look at Muhammads #s before he became a starter for the Knicks. U wouldn't think he was starter material either but he now found his role and is putting up allstar #s in starters mins.

TT averaged 16pts 5rebs as starter for KNicks last season if u take out the games when he had to leave 9min into the game because of injuries then he would average 18pts 5rebs as a starter. TT also averaged 18pts 5rebs in the playoffs when Miluakee faced the Nets in the playoffs his first yr as a starter. He averaged 13.3pts that yr then averaged 18pts in the playoffs. That and the big games he had in the past for Miluakee during there playoffs runs is y he got the rep for stepping up in the playoffs. His 12pt playoff average is mostly because he came off the bench.

The point is TT isn't as bad as he has been playing he isn't a bumb yes he should be critized for his weak play but people are starting to believe that TT is really this bad.

[Edited by - newyorknewyork on 12/02/2004 14:06:48]

Posted by NYKBocker:

By the way. I love the label that JYD has given to himself. He said that he a "Go To Role Player". I also saw that interview with Trautwig. His demeanor and easy-go-lucky attitude is very likable.

totally.

The Go TO Role player thing fits perfect.

Dido, frankly, not sure why we should take your opinion seriously
at all? Aren't you the same "cat" that said this was going to be
TT's break out year, that he needed to be the go to guy on this team?
Well, GUESS WHAT? You were WRONG.

Frankly, you're evaluations don't mean too much to me. They
are filled with hype. Take a chill, cuz you're wrong again.

Posted by diderotn:

why is it so hard for some of you to see what is wrong with our lineup? You are all hoping for a Center to land, but fail to realize that while we are waiting for that happen, there little things that can do to improve our squad. If our team does well, it showcases some of the talents that we would love to get rid off. Who is to say that JYD is not a starter? some said the same things about Nazr, but he is now balling. Larry Hughes, look at his stats. Iverson, too small to succeed, but look at his career. Just like you all have doubt about Sweetney as a starter, JYD has proved over and over again that he is a valuable player in this league. Look at the one year that he played as a starter with Toronto, that boy flourished. If a position is not producing, tweak it.

All year, this team hasn't have a shotblocker in the middle. I can almost guaranty you this, with JYD on the court, we will have at least 2 or 3 blocks per game. Reason for that is simple, JYD will force big or small to bring the ball inside. the assignments that TT would be lazzy playing in, which in return force our big men to commit to help, JYD welcomes them; Nazr and Kurt would benefit greatly from that. Our boys are always out of position. Mainly because TT is always out of position.

[Edited by - diderotn on 12/02/2004 09:28:08]

I swear some bizaare thought rattles around long enough in his head until he views it as fact then posts something starting with "why is it so hard for some of you to see ...."

In like 2 weeks he predicted TT would be an all star, then 6th man of the year, then traded, then benched, then will break out an carry us to wins, then he's the xfactor, on and on. Then I posted something about TT and he asked me why I was copying his post.

Posted by fishmike:

I swear some bizaare thought rattles around long enough in his head until he views it as fact then posts something starting with "why is it so hard for some of you to see ...."

In like 2 weeks he predicted TT would be an all star, then 6th man of the year, then traded, then benched, then will break out an carry us to wins, then he's the xfactor, on and on. Then I posted something about TT and he asked me why I was copying his post.

I saw that. I was rolling on the floor, laughing!

Fish! You have disappointed me. I viewed you as one of the best minds on this board, but your argument about how I would love to see Lenny uses TT and JYD is shocking to me. I never said trade TT, as you can see, all I have been calling for so far has been to sit him on the bench and allow him to regain his confidence and then bring him back. The guy is currently going through a lot of sh&t with his family, and to tell you the truth, I do understand how he is feeling. I have been there myself, perhaps not as an athlete, but as a soldier deployed in a remote location, I have faced the same problems that TT is facing. There were times when I was in the jungle trying to hunt down the enemy, I really didn't want to be there. When you get a letter from your mother telling you that while you are away, your little brother has been shot, or is in the hospital, your mind set is really not where it is supposed to be.

I do understand TT's problem. That is why I have advocated JYD as his replacement for a brief period, just so TT could regain his psychic. I know what JYD can and can't do. I also know that he can be a part-time baller that can breath a little life out of our starters.

Understand where I am coming from. Don't just read between the lines. I know that we need a big man to man the Center position. I also know that the SF position has been our least productive spot so far. When you have a spark-plug like JYD, you have to use him. that is all that I am saying.

Posted by fishmike:

I swear some bizaare thought rattles around long enough in his head until he views it as fact then posts something starting with "why is it so hard for some of you to see ...."

In like 2 weeks he predicted TT would be an all star, then 6th man of the year, then traded, then benched, then will break out an carry us to wins, then he's the xfactor, on and on. Then I posted something about TT and he asked me why I was copying his post.

Posted by Panos:

That's sort of analogous to my life experiences.
A lot of times when I am in outerspace performing space walks
to repair the Hubble telescope, and I get a message from
mission control that one of my close relations has passed away,
it usually distracts me away from my thoughts about
who should start as the Knicks SF.
Then I usually have to go back inside the spacecraft for a long
time to "regain my psychic" until that I can concentrate
on the boxscores again (can't actually watch the games in outerspace!).

It's tough, I know!!! Believe me!

LOL!!

It is all good. Just remember one thing, I am a concerned fan, that is all. I love basketball, an I appreciate some players. However, I am also not naive to know when a change is necessary. As much as I can applaude a player, is as much as I can criticize him for not giving a 100% effort on the court.

Dam, thats some very funny Shoyt right there.

Dido, I do feel for your experiences, and I am sure you had some really heavy stuff to deal with. IN respect to YOU, I would not equate hunting down the enemy in a jungle with the pampered life of an NBA player going to war in madison square garden. What you did was far tougher than what TT is going thru.

Second, I never called you a " Dumb ass", I only call Miss Bonnie names. I said your comment was "the single dumbest thing" you have written. An since you write alot, well we all have that one moment over others.

Be it as it may, I just thing you blend in wishful thinking which are subjective and are of opinion. But you at times state them as fact. That will get you some of the come backs written. This is a tough crowd, but that is what makes it fun.

I do respect your intensity as a fan and your contribution as a soldier. Im sure most posters do also.

As for everything else, its fair game as it it for most of us.

If TT needs time to work things out, he should go on the IR. You are a soldier and had a job to do. TT is a paid professional and needs to do what he needs to do to fulfil his commitment as you did yours.

Just remember, tomorrow Im gonna be on your ass again if you get silly again.

time to revive this damn thread. JYD and Nazr are my co-MVP so far. They are both under appreciated, and it is ashamed. Instead of concentrating on giving these two guys the due respect deserved, most fans and even Lenny are looking forward to find ways to get these two best Knicks traded. I hate some of you New Yorkers. You guys don't value hard work. If either of the two were to drop 50 lucky points on a given team, you would all want to keep those two hard working players around forever, a la Houston. Thank God that there are a few good fans like myself around to give props where props are due and criticize when it is necessary.