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Houston at SF
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Allanfan20
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12/2/2004  7:25 PM
Dude, Allan Houston has a career average of like, 3.5 rebounds for game. And if you wanna look at it like that...

Allan being much shorter and much less of an Athlete than Tim, maybe they are about equal in rebounds. In my mind, that 2 rebounds doesn't make a difference, b/c at least Allan tries all the time, and is always a threat on offense. Yes, Allan is a bad rebounder, but really, TT isn't better. If he grabs 3 rebounds a game, then he is really pathetic and Allan is better, no matter what the time difference is.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
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Bonn1997
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12/2/2004  7:28 PM
Posted by Allanfan20:

Dude, Allan Houston has a career average of like, 3.5 rebounds for game. And if you wanna look at it like that...

Allan being much shorter and much less of an Athlete than Tim, maybe they are about equal in rebounds. In my mind, that 2 rebounds doesn't make a difference, b/c at least Allan tries all the time, and is always a threat on offense. Yes, Allan is a bad rebounder, but really, TT isn't better. If he grabs 3 rebounds a game, then he is really pathetic and Allan is better, no matter what the time difference is.
What does career average matter when he's not the athlete anymore that he's been over his career. In his last full HEALTHY season, he averaged about 2 RPG. I don't know what he'll average with his knee now. Next thing you're gonna tell me that Jermaine O'Neal and Zach Randolph are 6 to 7 RPG players because that's what their career average is.

[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 12/02/2004 19:31:11]
Allanfan20
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12/2/2004  7:41 PM
I'd like to correct myself. Allan has a career average of 3 rebounds per game, but his last healthy season, he averaged close to 3. This season, wanna know how much TT is averaging the whole year? Not 5. He's averaging 3.4 rebounds per game.

My point. If we have Allan start at the SF, the loss of rebounds is not a concern. It shouldn't even be an issue. That's how bad TT has been this season.

Do I think it's a good idea starting Houston at the 3. Not really. He's a starting 2, not a 3, and he's not a good defender, even though he does try hard now. Therefore, you either choose Jamal or Allan to start at the 2, and I think it's a good idea to have Jerome come in to start, at the 3. TT cannot continue to play like this. If he has to sit, then so be it. Penny Hardaway is playing much more effectively than TT. He shouldn't be starting.

My point.. start anyone over TT, at this point, but I'd much rather see Allan start at the 2, or come in as a 6th man.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
Bonn1997
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12/2/2004  7:46 PM
his last healthy season, he averaged close to 3.
2.8 in 38 minutes. That's far worse than any rebounding/mpg ratio that TT has ever had, including this year.

This season, wanna know how much TT is averaging the whole year? Not 5. He's averaging 3.4 rebounds per game.
3.4 in 24 mpg. Nobody said he was averaging 5 this year. I said the goal was to get him back to the 5 in 32 mpg he had last year, which would translate into about 6 in the 38 mpg Houston usually gets.

TMS
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12/2/2004  11:07 PM
dude, where am i "obsessing" over TT's stats? i'm just saying, the added scoring that Houston would likely provide (given, we haven't seen him play yet, but i'm assuming he will be able to give us at least 13-15 ppg) will offset the 1 or 2 rebound difference.

what goal can you set to get TT to return back to his production from last year if he's not even going to give a full effort when he's on the floor? this guy needs a swift kick in his behind at this point...last night i was watching him coast up & down the floor like he was doing practice drills...it disgusts me that a guy making as much $ as he is can't take enough pride in his job to give at least a better effort than that, especially w/all the talent & ability that guy has...it's really sad.
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nykshaknbake
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12/3/2004  1:47 AM
Houston would not be able to defend the 3. It's kinda liek saying lets start him at Center since our center doesn't block shots anyway and he could hit jumpers. You think TT has bad D? Wait till you see Houston getting abused on every play by SFs bigger and stronger than him. Moreover, they'll go to whatever SF is playing constantly so the defeiciency will be magnified.
Rich
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12/3/2004  3:50 AM
The best way for Houston to play defense is to wear his man out on the offensive end, so that he is too tired to score.
TMS
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12/3/2004  12:14 PM
Posted by nykshaknbake:

Houston would not be able to defend the 3. It's kinda liek saying lets start him at Center since our center doesn't block shots anyway and he could hit jumpers. You think TT has bad D? Wait till you see Houston getting abused on every play by SFs bigger and stronger than him. Moreover, they'll go to whatever SF is playing constantly so the defeiciency will be magnified.

you mean like how TT gets totally wasted by Shane Battier on his way to the hoop for a dunk? i don't see Houston being any worse, i'm sorry...TT doesn't even help out on Defense or draw any charges...at least Allan will throw his body in there once in a while.
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fishmike
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12/3/2004  12:22 PM
I agree with TMS 100%... I have watched Houston alot over recent years. Nobody will mistakin him for a good defender but he atl east plays hard there. I cant say that TT does that.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
OldFan
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12/3/2004  1:55 PM
Posted by fishmike:

I agree with TMS 100%... I have watched Houston alot over recent years. Nobody will mistakin him for a good defender but he atl east plays hard there. I cant say that TT does that.

TT is terrible on defense. But I can't see Houston being able to play D against 3s. Spreewell who was a good defender against two's in my view was average at best against 3's. Houston who is average at best against 2s would be overwhelmed by 3s - he just doesn't have the strength to compensate for the weight he would be giving up. Not only would 3's have a field day - but Houston would get worn down which would lead to less minutes and less prodoction on the offensive end.

There really is no good solution someone has to step up and play better but I think it's got to be JYD, Aziz or Penny. I can't see Houston coming off a long layoff trying to guard bigger stronger players all game.
TMS
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12/3/2004  1:59 PM
if TT were to give an effort on D once in a while i would change my stance on this, trust me...but when you're getting outplayed by guys who are 3 inches shorter than you & not doing a damn thing on help defense & not willing to get your nails dirty going for rebounds or drawing charges, what good are you? simply not scoring is not the issue for TT...he's just not doing ANYTHING to help this team win ballgames, which is a shame because he has the ability & talent to do so much.
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fishmike
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12/3/2004  2:47 PM
actually I disagree... I think Houston is fine in the strength department and will be ok against 3's that like to post. Its the quicker ones (like Vince) that he will need a lot of help on. No matter what way you look at it its a liability, but he gives you something more than your getting now. We are 8-6 in first place right now and have gotten NOTHING from the starting 3. No D, no boards, no shooting, no scoring. Houston will give you space and offense and clutch play.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
newyorknewyork
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12/3/2004  3:20 PM
TT will continue to start at SF. I just can't see Lenny having Marbury-Crawford-Houston has his primary rotation. Then depending on the matchups Houston will get mins at SF, JYD will get mins at SF, Penny will get mins at SF, maybe even Crawford at SF.

TT plays well keep him in if he struggles pull him quick its that simple.

TT had that great all around game vs Raptors shutting down Rose scoring 17pts, grabing 5boards, 3stls, over 50% shooting. Then he hurt his groin and didn't do much the next game. Hopefully he plays very well today.
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djsunyc
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12/3/2004  3:25 PM
the question is will tim break out of his funk?
the team is constructed to have a 3 guard rotation of marbury, h20, and crawford off the bench. tim, penny, and ariza rotating at the 3 and kurt, nazr, sweetney, jyd rotating at the 4 and 5.

that's the blueprint.

tim is hurting the plan. do we stick with him or do we bench him? that's the question. h20 playing the SF position shouldn't be the question b/c he already gives us more than tim RIGHT NOW. but do we deviate from the plan or do we ride out his slump?
newyorknewyork
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12/3/2004  3:37 PM
It shouldn't even be a question. TT makes a lot of money and is cappable of averaging 15pts 5rebs on 45%shooting. U can't just take him out of the equation. U play him and hope he breaks out of the slump. If continues to struggle all season u continue Lenny could use the depth he has with Hardaway & Ariza & JYD & Houston??. But becuase TT is cappable and since he never had a slump like this before Lenny can't give up on him.
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OldFan
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12/3/2004  5:43 PM
Posted by fishmike:

actually I disagree... I think Houston is fine in the strength department and will be ok against 3's that like to post. Its the quicker ones (like Vince) that he will need a lot of help on. No matter what way you look at it its a liability, but he gives you something more than your getting now. We are 8-6 in first place right now and have gotten NOTHING from the starting 3. No D, no boards, no shooting, no scoring. Houston will give you space and offense and clutch play.

I guess we can agree to disagree - but do you really thing Houston is as strong as Spree - I don't and spree got overpowered. The guys playing 2 in general are quicker then the guys playing 3. So I see dealing with quickness as less of a problem at 3 then at 2.
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