But Facts are facts though.
In a year with 3 new starters we had our best result in 25 years.
Which included beating the defending champs in historic fashion.
This team brought back that electric playoff atmosphere to MSG.

If we look at reasonable expectations, I can honestly say they were exceeded.
Yes it hurts that it was a year in which the favorites were upset (Boston), by us no less, and the bracket became wide open. Hopefully there will be more chances soon and hopefully we get better and take advantage of them.

Congrats to the boys!
They fought and played hard.
KAT proved he belongs.
Captain clutch produced at an elite level.
Mitch was back healthy and dominating the offensive glass.
Hart gave his all and looked like a prize fighter at the end.
Deuce took a step forward.
Bridges had flashes and ended the two biggest comebacks in Knicks history.
OG had flashes of what he could be offensively.
Even Shamet and Payne showed moments of solid bench play.
All gave us a year to remember and one of the best in Knicks fandom history!

Now let’s fire everyone and trade all!

Knicksfan wrote:I would be excited if we had established a foundation even in defeat, but after an inconsistent year where the Knicks played many identities without sticking to one, and ending the year with an inconsistent focus and effort when last year you wouldn’t question it, I’m more pessimistic than anything.

The year was sometimes fun, but mostly unnerving, frustrating and sometimes illogical. Expectations were higher because of the moves to bring more talent and even though expecting a championship was unreal, expecting a clear direction at years end honestly wasn’t. Not saying that they should be a finished group for years to come, but this team was still tinkering with lots of stuff in the playoffs. While it’s impressive that they mostly won out of sheer talent and spurts of focus and poise, it’s very disappointing to me that we had so much trouble being consistent on effort and focus all year long.

I respect the optimism and I hope a championship is really as close as some of you think. Me? Not so excited. This year was insane, both in the good and the bad. The loss sucks, but what really discourages me is the way they did. A wild card from beginning to end, Jekyll & Hyde. I expected a bit more clarity at this point, but this still remains to me a beautiful mess.

That’s what you get in year 1 with a new group. Inconsistency and gaps to fill around the edges. In this era of the salary cap, having Brunson do what he did and being under the second apron so moves can be made is the primary reason for optimism.

HofstraBBall wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:I would be excited if we had established a foundation even in defeat, but after an inconsistent year where the Knicks played many identities without sticking to one, and ending the year with an inconsistent focus and effort when last year you wouldn’t question it, I’m more pessimistic than anything.

The year was sometimes fun, but mostly unnerving, frustrating and sometimes illogical. Expectations were higher because of the moves to bring more talent and even though expecting a championship was unreal, expecting a clear direction at years end honestly wasn’t. Not saying that they should be a finished group for years to come, but this team was still tinkering with lots of stuff in the playoffs. While it’s impressive that they mostly won out of sheer talent and spurts of focus and poise, it’s very disappointing to me that we had so much trouble being consistent on effort and focus all year long.

I respect the optimism and I hope a championship is really as close as some of you think. Me? Not so excited. This year was insane, both in the good and the bad. The loss sucks, but what really discourages me is the way they did. A wild card from beginning to end, Jekyll & Hyde. I expected a bit more clarity at this point, but this still remains to me a beautiful mess.

By no means is this a thread about being happy about the way we finished. Or a celebration of how we are complete.

Lots of things to work on. New pieces needed. Lessons to be learned.
But again, best season in 25 years is something to be praised.

What do you see as the number 1 move needed?

It’s so weird that while you are right in it being one of the best seasons in decades, the team was so inconsistent that it didn’t seem that amazing.

I don’t really want to be a hater on Thibs, but everytime I think about a tweak or two to the roster, I’m reminded of how inconsistent the coaching was and how that reflected on our performance from game to game.

In terms of number 1 move, I really think something needs to change in the coaching staff. Something was off even from last year. If Thibs isn’t gone, does he need a different assistant head coach?

In terms of roster, I’m convinced we need a young starting Center alas Walker Kessler and a backup PG ala Chris Paul. We need significant jumps from Deuce, Kolek and Huk (and then again, a coach who commits on using its bench better, ala OKC Thunder.

Knicksfan wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:I would be excited if we had established a foundation even in defeat, but after an inconsistent year where the Knicks played many identities without sticking to one, and ending the year with an inconsistent focus and effort when last year you wouldn’t question it, I’m more pessimistic than anything.

The year was sometimes fun, but mostly unnerving, frustrating and sometimes illogical. Expectations were higher because of the moves to bring more talent and even though expecting a championship was unreal, expecting a clear direction at years end honestly wasn’t. Not saying that they should be a finished group for years to come, but this team was still tinkering with lots of stuff in the playoffs. While it’s impressive that they mostly won out of sheer talent and spurts of focus and poise, it’s very disappointing to me that we had so much trouble being consistent on effort and focus all year long.

I respect the optimism and I hope a championship is really as close as some of you think. Me? Not so excited. This year was insane, both in the good and the bad. The loss sucks, but what really discourages me is the way they did. A wild card from beginning to end, Jekyll & Hyde. I expected a bit more clarity at this point, but this still remains to me a beautiful mess.

By no means is this a thread about being happy about the way we finished. Or a celebration of how we are complete.

Lots of things to work on. New pieces needed. Lessons to be learned.
But again, best season in 25 years is something to be praised.

What do you see as the number 1 move needed?

It’s so weird that while you are right in it being one of the best seasons in decades, the team was so inconsistent that it didn’t seem that amazing.

I don’t really want to be a hater on Thibs, but everytime I think about a tweak or two to the roster, I’m reminded of how inconsistent the coaching was and how that reflected on our performance from game to game.

In terms of number 1 move, I really think something needs to change in the coaching staff. Something was off even from last year. If Thibs isn’t gone, does he need a different assistant head coach?

In terms of roster, I’m convinced we need a young starting Center alas Walker Kessler and a backup PG ala Chris Paul. We need significant jumps from Deuce, Kolek and Huk (and then again, a coach who commits on using its bench better, ala OKC Thunder.

I think our biggest need is another competent, wing-sized player. Our bench, aside from being inconsistent, is missing a legit 6'6" to 6'8' player.

gradyandrew wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:
Thibs definitely gets credit for success. Beat Boston and a tough Detroit team by making good adjustments. Do agree that maybe an assistant who handles the offense. Pushes a fast paced low hold type offense. Or that Thibs now sees that a deep bench is crucial in the playoffs.

What adjustment are you referring to? My memory of those series is Mitchell coming off the bench when the other team was at or near the limit, and then them going hack a Mitch. And the other adjustment was going from drop coverage to switching screens vs. Boston. I don't know, both of these seem pretty obvious to me.

Taking out a year long starter was one that got some flack and could have ended badly.
Picking up Hali at 70.
Gave Brown and Tatum different defenders due to inefficiency .
More time with Brunson off the floor.
Moving OG to elbow from Corner to create.
Going to Shamet.

Look , not defending Thibs. As I don’t like how he favors a short rotation. Favors ISO and giving his starters such long minutes. But for me, to blame Thibs for not pushing the right buttons when the games we lost were filled with turnovers and missed fouls shots.

blkexec wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:
Thibs definitely gets credit for success. Beat Boston and a tough Detroit team by making good adjustments. Do agree that maybe an assistant who handles the offense. Pushes a fast paced low hold type offense. Or that Thibs now sees that a deep bench is crucial in the playoffs.

What adjustment are you referring to? My memory of those series is Mitchell coming off the bench when the other team was at or near the limit, and then them going hack a Mitch. And the other adjustment was going from drop coverage to switching screens vs. Boston. I don't know, both of these seem pretty obvious to me.

Taking out a year long starter was one that got some flack and could have ended badly.
Picking up Hali at 70.
Gave Brown and Tatum different defenders due to inefficiency .
More time with Brunson off the floor.
Moving OG to elbow from Corner to create.
Going to Shamet.

Look , not defending Thibs. As I don’t like how he favors a short rotation. Favors ISO and giving his starters such long minutes. But for me, to blame Thibs for not pushing the right buttons when the games we lost were filled with turnovers and missed fouls shots.

A lack of offensive structure, combined with players not buying into the offense, plus fatigue, can lead to TOs and players over thinking. Nothing is 100% on anybody or anything when it comes to sports, especially basketball and the Knicks. We can blame the fans for high expectations. There’s a blaming percentage that will hit everybody. The question is what’s the quickest fix while JB and company are in their prime? These windows don’t come around often.

100%.
As mentioned, everyone is to blame when a team loses. Including the coach. That’s why it’s a team.
Just feel the first and easiest go to for fans, besides refs, is the coach.
Again, I agree that Thibs needs to look back at the season and improve several things.
And that he too needs to take responsibility in loss to Pacers.
But, imo, thinking we would have won a chip with a different coach, is ignoring many of the deficiencies this squad had. And the bad play and decision making by key players at times.

Personally , I don’t think all the players we have right now can be part of a chip team . Would love a big name trade that takes us over the top. Don’t like many of Thibs habits. Would love a coach that pushes defense and a faster paced, drive, cut, kick, rotate offense. Don’t think we have a deep enough bench to win a chip. But what do we do?
But should we Change coaches? Main pieces?
We just took the biggest step forward in 25 years. Now we want to change the culture, main structure of the team? Thinking maybe small changes to change shortcomings, lengthen the bench, guys improving (including Thibs)and giving this squad more than one year seems more prudent?

Nalod wrote:Year One with this core to the ECF's and Im excited about the future.
A future that says "We are the no. contender"? Can't say that for sure.
With other teams be better? Perhaps, can't control what other teams did.
Last year injuries depleted us and we lost in the 2nd round.
This year we made it one step further.
It was inconsistent. Massive changes might not help that.
But I'll leave it up to FO to figure this out. They plan. Fans react.
Great season! Winning was not always pretty but it was winning.

I totally agree. I am bummed to the nth level but I am by no means disappointed in this team. We keep getting better every year. That is the only thing I ask. It will be so sweet when we finally win it all.

Nalod wrote:This is not a team that has knocked on the door year after year and failed to advance, its really year one or 1.5 with OG who had a career year. Its not a team that has failed to advance over and over like Philly or Toronto that changed its coach and pushed in the chips for Kawahi and won.
Chemistry issues can be solved over time, not just with Trades.
Thibs was out coached by Carlisle. That does not mean you fire him. Chemistry issues are not solved by that either, in fact you might have a worse situation.
Change bench coaches? Its not like the guys are the bench are just all about one way and can't learn/change/reconfigure things for next year. Did knicks fail this year? No. Was it always pretty? No. This team has upside. Fix the chemistry you get more. How? Fuck if I know, not my job. Just because they could not thru the year does not mean never.
I expect some changes, some arguments among us, and no doubt a long off season until its sorted out.
We beat Boston because we were healthy. Thats how it works. But we still beat a really good team even with Tatum.
If some of us can't see straight thru hate what pacers have been doing the last two years then your missing a piece of what happend or understand our inherent short comings.
I won't tell you we might ever win a chip with this group but I sense some are quite fond of the past over valuing DDV and focused on all KAT is not instead of what he actually bought to the team.

For me it was that last year's playoff team embodied the grit, hustle and toughness that many of us fans loved (as it was reminded us of the 90s style). We have a defensive minded coach with 2 outstanding offensive players that are also defensively challenged. We may not have been able to even pass Boston but if we were injury free last year I would have preferred taking out chances with that team. I was proud of last year's team and this year felt indifferent despite the higher ceiling and more collected talent. You can be patient with chemistry that needs to form... but I can tell you 100% KAT doesn't have the fire/desire to be an excellent and consistent defensive player. He can play solid defense but to stay locked in it's a mindset that he simply does not have. The only solution is to change the defensive scheme, change the coach, play KAT as a 6th man (crazy) or move him and acquire a big that can offer enough offense without hurthing you defensively. KAT is the weak link and it's too much pressure on OG, Bridges, Hart and Mitch to guard their guys effectively and compsensate for him and Brunson. 3 years later with the same approach and roster will yield similar results.