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OT: Dame tore the achllies, probably out for a very long time
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martin
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4/28/2025  2:12 PM
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martin
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4/28/2025  2:12 PM
Start up the Giannis trade engines?
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nycericanguy
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4/28/2025  2:26 PM
KAT + either of Mikal or OG.
Nalod
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4/28/2025  4:39 PM
martin wrote:Start up the Giannis trade engines?

You know it!!!!

Dame torn the other leg, not the one with the clot. Compensated one for the other? Did Blood thinners contribute to it?
Giannis need not chase a chip as he has one and any team need be stacked to compete in the aftermath of a big trade. Rockets? OKC? BKN has the picks and can absorb salary. There have been rumors there but on the surface does not make sense. That don't mean there is not a master plan. Just cause fan don't know it mean it can't happen.

Knicks media will starphuch it somehow. Since it will anyway how do you get there? Townes is the obvious choice but knicks don't have much beyond it and Towns is like the perfect pairing for Gianis........

I don't see a path unless you 3rd team it.

Why do I get the weird feelng Cooper Flag ends up in Boston, Giannis ad Brown with Nets, Jrue Holiday Is Cap filler with picks (and other goodies) to Milwaukee. Boston has to get under that 2nd apron as its a killer. Core of White, Tatum, KP is still very potent. Not winning a chip with that.

Knicks will counter with rounding out the roster and let the core gel.
Chandler
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4/28/2025  5:00 PM
when do we have that bucks pick? or did we send that to Nets?

end of the road for Dame

(5)(7)
VDesai
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4/28/2025  5:11 PM
I feel really bad for Dame. Coming back from a serious health issue and then having this happen right away is a gut punch. He will miss year so will be 35-36 by the time he gets back. Its definitely over for him at a superstar level, so the question is does he come back from this knowing he will be more of a role player.

The Giannis conundrum will be a fun one. They probably course corrected too hard from getting bounced the year after they won. They had a really well put together roster and Jrue was such a great fit with Giannis and Budenholzer was a good fit as a coach for that team. Middleton getting hurt / frail knocked them down as much as anything. In retrospect made more sense to upgrade him rather than Jrue if they were trying to go big. That would have meant someone other than Dame, but alas.
martin
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4/28/2025  7:41 PM
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GustavBahler
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4/28/2025  7:57 PM
martin wrote:

Pray OKC isn’t interested. That would be a dynasty.

OKC has 11 first-round picks through 2030. That includes four in the 2025 draft. OKC has its own 2025 first-round pick, which it can swap with either Houston (top-10 protected) or the Los Angeles Clippers. It also has a top-14 protected Miami pick, a top-10 protected Utah pick and Philadelphia's top-six protected pick.Mar 18, 2025
GustavBahler
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4/28/2025  8:05 PM
From what I’ve read, Dame has a very full life ahead of him post-NBA. But it’s still a devastating injury that really throws a wrench in his dream of an NBA title.
martin
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4/28/2025  8:08 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
martin wrote:

Pray OKC isn’t interested. That would be a dynasty.

OKC has 11 first-round picks through 2030. That includes four in the 2025 draft. OKC has its own 2025 first-round pick, which it can swap with either Houston (top-10 protected) or the Los Angeles Clippers. It also has a top-14 protected Miami pick, a top-10 protected Utah pick and Philadelphia's top-six protected pick.Mar 18, 2025

Chet JWill & SGA next to Giannis would be devestating.

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gradyandrew
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4/28/2025  8:31 PM
We will have to see how the playoffs shake out but Hartenstein wasn't signed to a 30 million per two year deal because OKC thought he was worth that much. Their intent from the beginning was to use him as trade ballast to get another player. Giannis to OKC might cause a few financial issues later on, but they have so many cost controlled rookie deals that they will figure it out.

The big caveat is if they win it all in convincing fashion this year. That will definitely make them more hesitant to mess with a winning formula.

Knicks don't have the bullets for a big trade. I think this team is locked in for 2 more seasons at least.


Really, really sucks for Dame that Horst didn't make sure that Jrue Holiday got rerouted to a contender out West. Biggest winner of that trade was Boston who got Jrue for (checking internets) injured Robert Williams, oft injured Malcolm Brogdon, Bub Carrington, and a 2029 pick, so basically a 2029 pick. That trade immediately downgraded the Lillard trade to a negative because it improved the Bucks biggest competition more than themselves.

How Horst got an extension is beyond me. Firing Bud and Griffin who were better coaches than he a gm and now having to trade the best player in franchise history (sorry Kareem), doesn't seem like it should be rewarded.
Nalod
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4/29/2025  7:23 AM
gradyandrew wrote:We will have to see how the playoffs shake out but Hartenstein wasn't signed to a 30 million per two year deal because OKC thought he was worth that much. Their intent from the beginning was to use him as trade ballast to get another player. Giannis to OKC might cause a few financial issues later on, but they have so many cost controlled rookie deals that they will figure it out.

The big caveat is if they win it all in convincing fashion this year. That will definitely make them more hesitant to mess with a winning formula.

Knicks don't have the bullets for a big trade. I think this team is locked in for 2 more seasons at least.


Really, really sucks for Dame that Horst didn't make sure that Jrue Holiday got rerouted to a contender out West. Biggest winner of that trade was Boston who got Jrue for (checking internets) injured Robert Williams, oft injured Malcolm Brogdon, Bub Carrington, and a 2029 pick, so basically a 2029 pick. That trade immediately downgraded the Lillard trade to a negative because it improved the Bucks biggest competition more than themselves.

How Horst got an extension is beyond me. Firing Bud and Griffin who were better coaches than he a gm and now having to trade the best player in franchise history (sorry Kareem), doesn't seem like it should be rewarded.

Holiday was traded to Portland and rerouted to Boston. Can't control everything.
Milwaukee won a title. It matters.
We don't know the extent of ownership interventions and dictates roster/financing.
Bud won a chip. Seems was burnt out and his brother died.
Griffin was a bad hire. Maybe Horst was not behind it?
Rivers hire was bad from the start. Getting dame was a good idea and team did come around this year with what they had.
Giannis is incredible athlete. Kareem was not better? Subjective perhaps.

Many factors go into hiring executives. Horst was being courted by another team and Milwaukee decided they liked their guy.
DLeethal
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4/29/2025  9:44 AM    LAST EDITED: 4/29/2025  9:44 AM
GustavBahler wrote:From what I’ve read, Dame has a very full life ahead of him post-NBA. But it’s still a devastating injury that really throws a wrench in his dream of an NBA title.

He will need to embrace coming off the bench or being a role player starter for the twilight seasons of his career and he could still put himself on a contender and make something happen. Sorta like 2006 Gary Payton.
gradyandrew
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4/29/2025  10:30 AM
Nalod wrote:
gradyandrew wrote:We will have to see how the playoffs shake out but Hartenstein wasn't signed to a 30 million per two year deal because OKC thought he was worth that much. Their intent from the beginning was to use him as trade ballast to get another player. Giannis to OKC might cause a few financial issues later on, but they have so many cost controlled rookie deals that they will figure it out.

The big caveat is if they win it all in convincing fashion this year. That will definitely make them more hesitant to mess with a winning formula.

Knicks don't have the bullets for a big trade. I think this team is locked in for 2 more seasons at least.


Really, really sucks for Dame that Horst didn't make sure that Jrue Holiday got rerouted to a contender out West. Biggest winner of that trade was Boston who got Jrue for (checking internets) injured Robert Williams, oft injured Malcolm Brogdon, Bub Carrington, and a 2029 pick, so basically a 2029 pick. That trade immediately downgraded the Lillard trade to a negative because it improved the Bucks biggest competition more than themselves.

How Horst got an extension is beyond me. Firing Bud and Griffin who were better coaches than he a gm and now having to trade the best player in franchise history (sorry Kareem), doesn't seem like it should be rewarded.

Holiday was traded to Portland and rerouted to Boston. Can't control everything.
Milwaukee won a title. It matters.
We don't know the extent of ownership interventions and dictates roster/financing.
Bud won a chip. Seems was burnt out and his brother died.
Griffin was a bad hire. Maybe Horst was not behind it?
Rivers hire was bad from the start. Getting dame was a good idea and team did come around this year with what they had.
Giannis is incredible athlete. Kareem was not better? Subjective perhaps.

Many factors go into hiring executives. Horst was being courted by another team and Milwaukee decided they liked their guy.

I disagree with your "can't control everything" statement. Don't forget that Lillard had already asked to be traded to Miami before Milwaukee came in. Portland needed to trade Dame and the clock was ticking. Milwaukee should have involved a 3rd team, preferably out West that could have met Portland 's price. They ended up trading Brogdon, Carrington(the pick they got from Boston), a first (also from Boston), and two seconds for Avidja. So the trade essentially was Lillard for Robert Williams and Avidja and swapping 2 seconds for 2 firsts, not a huge haul. Pelicans, Suns, Mavericks, and Golden State would probably all have been interested. Jrue going to Boston was a huge upgrade, especially considering they had already traded Smart for KP.

The thing is Jrue wasn't a fit in Portland and Milwaukee knew they would have to trade him. After getting Lillard, by far the most interested teams would be Eastern Conference contenders with a hole at PG. It wasn't 3D chess.
Knixkik
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4/29/2025  1:03 PM
martin wrote:

Milwaukee is in a really tough spot. They will need to try and stay competitive for the foreseeable future. At least they got their title, because they are stuck for a long time.
MaTT4281
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4/29/2025  1:22 PM
Knixkik wrote:
martin wrote:

Milwaukee is in a really tough spot. They will need to try and stay competitive for the foreseeable future. At least they got their title, because they are stuck for a long time.

Dame news sucks and closes the door on being a contender, but let's not pretend those are bad picks to own.

If Giannis does ask out, how many picks do we think they get for him? The Mikal trade will be brought up relentlessly.
Nalod
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4/29/2025  5:02 PM
gradyandrew wrote:
Nalod wrote:
gradyandrew wrote:We will have to see how the playoffs shake out but Hartenstein wasn't signed to a 30 million per two year deal because OKC thought he was worth that much. Their intent from the beginning was to use him as trade ballast to get another player. Giannis to OKC might cause a few financial issues later on, but they have so many cost controlled rookie deals that they will figure it out.

The big caveat is if they win it all in convincing fashion this year. That will definitely make them more hesitant to mess with a winning formula.

Knicks don't have the bullets for a big trade. I think this team is locked in for 2 more seasons at least.


Really, really sucks for Dame that Horst didn't make sure that Jrue Holiday got rerouted to a contender out West. Biggest winner of that trade was Boston who got Jrue for (checking internets) injured Robert Williams, oft injured Malcolm Brogdon, Bub Carrington, and a 2029 pick, so basically a 2029 pick. That trade immediately downgraded the Lillard trade to a negative because it improved the Bucks biggest competition more than themselves.

How Horst got an extension is beyond me. Firing Bud and Griffin who were better coaches than he a gm and now having to trade the best player in franchise history (sorry Kareem), doesn't seem like it should be rewarded.

Holiday was traded to Portland and rerouted to Boston. Can't control everything.
Milwaukee won a title. It matters.
We don't know the extent of ownership interventions and dictates roster/financing.
Bud won a chip. Seems was burnt out and his brother died.
Griffin was a bad hire. Maybe Horst was not behind it?
Rivers hire was bad from the start. Getting dame was a good idea and team did come around this year with what they had.
Giannis is incredible athlete. Kareem was not better? Subjective perhaps.

Many factors go into hiring executives. Horst was being courted by another team and Milwaukee decided they liked their guy.

I disagree with your "can't control everything" statement. Don't forget that Lillard had already asked to be traded to Miami before Milwaukee came in. Portland needed to trade Dame and the clock was ticking. Milwaukee should have involved a 3rd team, preferably out West that could have met Portland 's price. They ended up trading Brogdon, Carrington(the pick they got from Boston), a first (also from Boston), and two seconds for Avidja. So the trade essentially was Lillard for Robert Williams and Avidja and swapping 2 seconds for 2 firsts, not a huge haul. Pelicans, Suns, Mavericks, and Golden State would probably all have been interested. Jrue going to Boston was a huge upgrade, especially considering they had already traded Smart for KP.

The thing is Jrue wasn't a fit in Portland and Milwaukee knew they would have to trade him. After getting Lillard, by far the most interested teams would be Eastern Conference contenders with a hole at PG. It wasn't 3D chess.

We can beat this logistically to death but I agree Jrue was gonna get moved but at some point the thought process was can Lillard get Bucks over the hump vs. the collective chemistry that boston did with Holiday that was out of their control. Remember Portland was trying to get Dame out of the west themselves.
Holiday was revelation in Boston but more so what Derrick White trade which proved brilliant and getting KP in a situation were he could thrive and be the 3rd or 4th option. To say Horst should be liable for all that is quite the task. Remember they were trying to also extend Giannis life as a Buck.
The Bud removal I understand to some extent but the Griffin thing was weird as ****.
I don't know to what extent Ownership intervened or if that was a Giannis pick himself, and perhaps had to own it was a mistake also. Remember he mattered and while he is not Lebron, its could also be Bucks did a great job keeping Giannis' reputation intact.

For all we know it could be Horst who might have been advising ownership to reboot the franchise but they did not want to. Remember Wes edens sold his half of the team just about 2 years ago. That summer/fall is when they made the big trade and started messing with the coaching. New owners like to make a splash and doubt they wanted to reboot then.

Some GM's get fired for what you mentioned. Some like Sean Marks keep rebuilding under new owners and circumstances.
Philc1
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4/29/2025  7:10 PM
martin wrote:Start up the Giannis trade engines?

Bucks will trade him to lakers for Bronny and a future first
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OT: Dame tore the achllies, probably out for a very long time
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