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Solving the KAT wing defense conundrum
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martin
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4/23/2025  11:07 AM
Really good work by Fred. This matches what has been repeated before: Knicks were kicking ass for the first weeks and months of season until teams put a big wing on KAT.

Knicks must stop trending away from Karl-Anthony Towns
Fred Katz


NEW YORK — The freeze-out, as most do, began in winter.

Karl-Anthony Towns did not attempt a shot during the fourth quarter of Monday’s Game 2 loss to the Detroit Pistons, which evened the New York Knicks’ first-round playoff series at one win apiece. He didn’t score a point in the second half that night. But to better understand how the Knicks could drift so far away from their second-leading scorer during a postseason bout that came down to the final seconds, it’s worth traveling back four months, when ice began to form around Towns.

In early December, the Knicks blew out a bottom-feeder. Towns had a gaudy stat line, as did every other New York starter. But the Charlotte Hornets, on an otherwise insignificant night, had pushed the Knicks’ season to a new phase.

Cody Martin, a 6-foot-6 wing, defended Towns more than any other Hornet did. Opponents had placed perimeter players on the five-time All-Star — such as the Boston Celtics with Jrue Holiday or the Houston Rockets with Dillon Brooks — but for the first time since his October trade from Minnesota, a team without an elite defense was trying the strategy, one coaches have hurled at Towns for years.

Martin did not stop Towns, but the Knicks center changed his style, just as the Hornets hoped he would. Placing a smaller defender on Towns — a broad-shouldered behemoth capable of bruising Goliath without a slingshot — is a bet that the 7-footer will change his style, that Towns might get physical for a stretch or a quarter or a half but that he doesn’t want to keep that energy for 48 minutes.

Wings can tread close to Towns, limiting the long-range attempts of a splashy 3-point shooter, without paying the price. And maybe, on the right day, they can goad the Knicks into less efficient 2-pointers.

On that night, Towns did not set many ball screens against the Hornets, in part because a big man could guard Josh Hart, who isn’t a threat from beyond the 3-point arc, and roam into the lane

From then on, a trend emerged.

Later in the month, the Knicks played a couple of consecutive games against the hapless Washington Wizards.

The main assignment on Towns for both of them was a 6-foot-7 wing, Justin Champagnie. The result? Towns set fewer ball screens in each of those games than he had in any contest since the infamous, opening-night shellacking at the hands of the Celtics, according to Second Spectrum.

As teams manned Towns with wings more, Towns’ habits changed. He didn’t dominate the post enough to convince opponents to deviate. The Knicks’ bread-and-butter, the action that was supposed to dominate the league this season, had been the Jalen Brunson-Towns pick-and-roll. The team strayed from it — and thus, strayed from Towns.

By the end of the season, the Knicks were 35-12 in games where big men were Towns’ primary defender and 11-14 in games when perimeter players were his primary defender. Towns set 27.0 ball screens a game when bigs were primarily on him, according to Second Spectrum. He set just 15.9 when a guard or wing was his main guy.

The Pistons have been watching.

From the first possession of this series, veteran forward Tobias Harris has guarded Towns. A center, often Jalen Duren, takes Hart. And during these fights with the Pistons, what was once a blemish that only basketball geeks could brag about noticing has become obvious to anyone who could read Towns’ shot total during Game 2’s fourth quarter.

“He’s getting touches. He’s making the right play,” head coach Tom Thibodeau said. “If he’s getting double-teamed, I don’t want him to shoot the ball over three people.”

In that case, the Knicks’ job is to figure out how to get Towns shooting over just one person.

Towns attempted his last shot against the Pistons with 5:20 to go in the third quarter. Contrary to Thibodeau’s statement, he played the entire fourth and touched the ball in the frontcourt only three times during the period, according to Second Spectrum. For perspective, Brunson had 15 front-court touches in the final period.

The Dallas Mavericks succeeded in tossing smalls onto Towns throughout last season’s Western Conference finals. The LA Clippers disrupted him with perimeter players during the 2022 Play-In Tournament. So, how can the Knicks solve a problem that has plagued Towns for years?

It starts with getting him involved more in the offense — a process that falls most on three people: Thibodeau, Brunson and Towns himself.

Perimeter players, with Harris leading the way, have defended Towns for 82 percent of the Knicks’ half-court possessions during Games 1 and 2, according to Second Spectrum. And yet, Towns isn’t using his size advantage.

He hasn’t ducked down low. Not once in this series has Towns muscled Harris, who he has four inches and more than 20 pounds on, to the block before catching the basketball. Instead, Harris wins the shoving match. All of Towns’ post-ups in Game 2 began with his feet closer to the 3-point arc than the paint, a major no-no. If Towns received an entry pass with a just a toenail already near the restricted area, he could turn around for an easy bucket.

Instead, look at how Harris is winning the off-ball battle with him:

New York needs ways to attack the deep paint in the halfcourt. Brunson is best in the short mid-range. OG Anunoby will throttle to the hoop but doesn’t facilitate from there. Mikal Bridges pulls up for jumpers before arriving at the rim. Drives are more difficult for Hart with Pistons waiting in the lane for him. Detroit’s physicality has been persistent since the series began.

The Knicks don’t create many 3s. Towns has put up only five and has made one all series (in games that a perimeter player was Towns’ primary defender this season, he averaged 3.6 3-point attempts. When a big man was his primary, he averaged 5.3). But his size, if he chooses to use it, gives them a down-low weapon either to score or create.

The Pistons threw a curveball at Towns during Game 2. When Towns posted Harris up during the first game of the series, Duren would shade into the lane, stuck somewhat in no-man’s land, not guarding his assignment or Towns just in case Towns bolted to the rim. No coincidence, Duren committed three three-second violations that night.

Come Game 2, the Pistons began to double-team Towns from the baseline.

On the rare occasions that he spun away from Duren, he appeared unbothered. Check out this second-quarter play, when Harris can’t handle Towns alone as Towns twists to the middle, where Duren can’t reach him:

Not only is Towns too strong for Harris; he also establishes solid positioning on this play, albeit after he catches the basketball. Harris can’t stop him once he hits the paint.

But this isn’t just a Towns issue.

The Knicks could prioritize his touches more. When Brunson missed time with an ankle injury this spring, they ran cross screens down low, actions where a teammate would screen Towns’ man in the paint to get him open in the post.

Thibodeau could use him less as a spacer in crunch time.

He could urge Brunson and Towns to run more pick-and-rolls, as they did earlier in the season, when the offense hummed. Matchups aside, Towns doesn’t set nearly as many ball screens for Brunson as he did earlier in the schedule.

Thibodeau could force the Pistons to make difficult decisions, too.

If Thibodeau were to replace Hart with Miles “Deuce” McBride, even if the adjustment were just making McBride-for-Hart the first substitution of the game, the choice to guard Towns with a wing wouldn’t be as intuitive. As constituted, it works because the Pistons can put their center on Hart or backup center Mitchell Robinson, who has played next to Towns during this series. Neither will hurt Detroit from deep. But place a center on McBride, Brunson, Bridges or Anunoby and prepare for open 3s aplenty.

The starters minus Hart, plus McBride barely played this season, only 160 possessions according to Cleaning the Glass, but annihilated opponents when they did, besting them by 43.7 points per 100 possessions. It was the top lineup in the NBA among the many units that played as many possessions as they did.

Of course, swapping Hart for McBride would not help the Knicks’ rebounding struggles, which Thibodeau harped on after the Game 2 defeat.

And then there’s Brunson, who took over fourth quarters all season — and did the same Monday.

The end of any close Knicks game is a declaration that this team is Brunson’s. He is the Knicks’ crunch-time engine. When games are within five points with five-or-less minutes to go, his usage is three times Towns’. In Game 2, Brunson took it to the extreme, and not just late.

The ball went into and mostly stayed in his hands. He ran 17 isolations against the Pistons, which would have tied his regular-season high, per Second Spectrum.

All the while, Towns remained a nonparticipant.

“It’s very tough when there’s definitely one ball,” Brunson said. “We have a lot of great players on this team and definitely it’s on my shoulders. … It’s on me to make sure I set the table. So I’ll go back, and I’ll figure out what I need to do.”

Whatever the captain does, whatever Thibodeau changes, however Towns adjusts, they must end the freeze-out.

The Knicks’ end-of-season struggles coincided with teams sticking wings onto Towns. During Towns’ first 43 games played, a perimeter player was his primary defender only 10 times. But over his final 29 regular-season games, it happened more often than not: 15 times. New York went 6-9 in those games.

Not all of those defeats came to elite defenses. In late March, Towns scored an inefficient 24 points during a loss to the Hornets. A 6-foot-7 forward, Miles Bridges, followed him more than anyone else.

This problem is not going anywhere.

On paper, Harris shouldn’t be able to guard Towns, but he will continue to as long as he wrestles with such verve — and as long as Towns allows it. If the Knicks skirt by Detroit, Boston will be no easier, whether it’s Holiday or Jayson Tatum on Towns.

Towns has to figure this out, as do Thibodeau and Brunson. If the Knicks can’t optimize their two stars, they can’t reach their potential.

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Uptown
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4/23/2025  1:45 PM
Great article....thanks for sharing this. One point that stood out to me:

The Knicks could prioritize his touches more. When Brunson missed time with an ankle injury this spring, they ran cross screens down low, actions where a teammate would screen Towns’ man in the paint to get him open in the post.

Thibodeau could use him less as a spacer in crunch time.

Some of us pointed out how Kat wasn't being utilized enough throughout the season and how inconsistent his touches were. I like the idea of a flex screen (cross screen) across the baseline to get Kat open. My question is, why did the coaching staff put this play in their back pocket when Brunson returned? Outside of post-ups and flex cuts to get Kat open, would love to see Towns in the high post and run some of the offense through him similar to the way the Nuggets run play through Joker...OG and Mikal always make smart basket cuts and Towns is a willing passer. And, he is a threat from 15-18 feet away as well as putting the ball on the floor.


Game 2 was one of the most nauseating Knick games I've watched in a long time. Almost threw my remote through the tv watching Brunson dribble the air out the ball while everyone stood around. We've seen plenty of games this year where we moved the ball, racked up over 30 assist, guys were cutting and slicing back door, we pushed the tempo, etc. For us to take 2 giant steps backwards and revert to the way we played during the first couple of games after we had entire season to work on our chemistry, was disappointing. Not sure how Thibs watched from the sidelines and didn't listen to what the game was telling him to do.

martin
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4/23/2025  1:50 PM
Uptown wrote:Great article....thanks for sharing this. One point that stood out to me:

The Knicks could prioritize his touches more. When Brunson missed time with an ankle injury this spring, they ran cross screens down low, actions where a teammate would screen Towns’ man in the paint to get him open in the post.

Thibodeau could use him less as a spacer in crunch time.

Some of us pointed out how Kat wasn't being utilized enough throughout the season and how inconsistent his touches were. I like the idea of a flex screen (cross screen) across the baseline to get Kat open. My question is, why did the coaching staff put this play in their back pocket when Brunson returned? Outside of post-ups and flex cuts to get Kat open, would love to see Towns in the high post and run some of the offense through him similar to the way the Nuggets run play through Joker...OG and Mikal always make smart basket cuts and Towns is a willing passer. And, he is a threat from 15-18 feet away as well as putting the ball on the floor.


Game 2 was one of the most nauseating Knick games I've watched in a long time. Almost threw my remote through the tv watching Brunson dribble the air out the ball while everyone stood around. We've seen plenty of games this year where we moved the ball, racked up over 30 assist, guys were cutting and slicing back door, we pushed the tempo, etc. For us to take 2 giant steps backwards and revert to the way we played during the first couple of games after we had entire season to work on our chemistry, was disappointing. Not sure how Thibs watched from the sidelines and didn't listen to what the game was telling him to do.

I think some questions just answer themselves. Brunson should not pretend he is Doncic for 3.5 quarters. At end of game, OK now do your thing.

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martin
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4/23/2025  2:13 PM    LAST EDITED: 4/23/2025  2:14 PM
The math adds up

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ramtour420
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4/23/2025  2:54 PM
Beautiful disaster. It's a great, excellent test for Thibs. Some of the solutions are right there, my favorite was : if Towns is in the post being guarded by a PF, then there should be 4 guys on the perimeter, all shooters( Hart goes to the bench)Towns just had to see the center in the paint ( not even double teaming, just in the paint) and kick the ball out. Now a center has to run out to the three and we can swing the ball, forcing the D to scramble and we should get an open shot.
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ramtour420
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4/23/2025  2:58 PM
If a wing is guarding him at the three, that means either the paint is open( cut, get a screen and cut to the hoop) or the center is in the paint and we have someone open at the 3( As long as it's not Hart, he needs the bench and we need 4 shooters with KAT which we have plenty of on this team)
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GustavBahler
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4/23/2025  3:24 PM
martin wrote:The math adds up

That is not good. I’ve noticed this season that when the talk is of Brunson dominating the offense to a fault. JB usually picks up on it, and makes more of a concerted effort to share the rock. I wouldn’t be surprised if Brunson is more of a floor general in game 3.

martin
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4/23/2025  4:25 PM
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Uptown
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4/23/2025  5:36 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
martin wrote:The math adds up

That is not good. I’ve noticed this season that when the talk is of Brunson dominating the offense to a fault. JB usually picks up on it, and makes more of a concerted effort to share the rock. I wouldn’t be surprised if Brunson is more of a floor general in game 3.

I'm sure he will be better at moving the ball in game 3, but the bigger question is, why does he always revert back to Iso-ball? It's been like this all year long. We have a stretch where we share the ball, rack up over 30 assist per, then we fall back to a heavy dose of Iso-Brunson for a stretch. It's been a roller coster all year....

VDesai
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4/24/2025  7:29 AM
Its on KAT. Get into the post you big goof. Are you really gonna get Tobias shoving you off the block. What I saw KAT do was stand around. When he got the ball he had too much distance. Go take this guy who is smaller than you and set up low. You did it in Game 1, why didn't you try in Game 2?
blkexec
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4/24/2025  8:15 AM
VDesai wrote:Its on KAT. Get into the post you big goof. Are you really gonna get Tobias shoving you off the block. What I saw KAT do was stand around. When he got the ball he had too much distance. Go take this guy who is smaller than you and set up low. You did it in Game 1, why didn't you try in Game 2?

I’ve won a lot of championships playing the Tobias roll on defense. Guarding a big and the other team is like take him down low. I was like we got them. If they think that’s gonna win good luck. Even though I’m only 6ft it’s not easy to take me in the paint. And it disrupts their offensive flow.

Now back to towns, he’s not strong enough with lower body strength to do that. A strong guard can get even lower and prevent that. So you say just turn around and shoot over him? Towns focus too much on flops and refs for that. Once he misses his shot (he’s a finesse player) his man will sprint down court. Towns will lose that foot race all day. They end up with easy makes while our scoring is like pulling teeth.

The problem is hart. Since he can’t take advantage of a slow center guarding him (which is embarrassing) put a shooter out there. Hart and Mitch are the only players their centers can guard. Take them off the floor put in deuce (or a shooter) and now see how duren can guard a shooter. They adjusted we haven’t.

Tobias guarding towns and it’s working is laughable to me. Duren guarding hart is disrespectful to hart. But if I’m Detroit it’s a very smart adjustment on them. Let’s see how Thibs responds in this chess match.

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jaydh
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4/24/2025  10:37 PM
martin wrote:The math adds up

He's a ballhog. But he's also a undersized sg playing pg

VDesai
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4/24/2025  10:41 PM
jaydh wrote:
martin wrote:The math adds up

He's a ballhog. But he's also a undersized sg playing pg

Lol literally the best leader and player to show up on the Knicks in 30 years and this is the discourse?

Kudos to KAT for shooting the damn ball and asserting himself in mismatches. Thank you for not letting the officials get in your head and thank you for not backing down. Tremendous mentally strong performance by the big KAT

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4/24/2025  11:02 PM
Knicks just need to live with it in these playoffs. Over the summer identify a shooter who doesn’t hurt defensively to be the 5th starter, and let Hart be the fix the bench needs. 2 birds, 1 stone.
blkexec
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4/25/2025  11:39 AM
blkexec wrote:
VDesai wrote:Its on KAT. Get into the post you big goof. Are you really gonna get Tobias shoving you off the block. What I saw KAT do was stand around. When he got the ball he had too much distance. Go take this guy who is smaller than you and set up low. You did it in Game 1, why didn't you try in Game 2?

I’ve won a lot of championships playing the Tobias roll on defense. Guarding a big and the other team is like take him down low. I was like we got them. If they think that’s gonna win good luck. Even though I’m only 6ft it’s not easy to take me in the paint. And it disrupts their offensive flow.

Now back to towns, he’s not strong enough with lower body strength to do that. A strong guard can get even lower and prevent that. So you say just turn around and shoot over him? Towns focus too much on flops and refs for that. Once he misses his shot (he’s a finesse player) his man will sprint down court. Towns will lose that foot race all day. They end up with easy makes while our scoring is like pulling teeth.

The problem is hart. Since he can’t take advantage of a slow center guarding him (which is embarrassing) put a shooter out there. Hart and Mitch are the only players their centers can guard. Take them off the floor put in deuce (or a shooter) and now see how duren can guard a shooter. They adjusted we haven’t.

Tobias guarding towns and it’s working is laughable to me. Duren guarding hart is disrespectful to hart. But if I’m Detroit it’s a very smart adjustment on them. Let’s see how Thibs responds in this chess match.

Looks like Towns responded very well. I'm wondering if Thibs told the guys to look for Towns during those early fastbreak moments, cause Towns was killing from deep before the defense can set up. Plus he can shoot over Tobias and bigs too slow to close the gap. Towns is a shooter in a big mans body. Let that man shoot. Let Mitch clean up the boards. And lets get out of this round w/o injuries.

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4/25/2025  3:27 PM
Knixkik wrote:Knicks just need to live with it in these playoffs. Over the summer identify a shooter who doesn’t hurt defensively to be the 5th starter, and let Hart be the fix the bench needs. 2 birds, 1 stone.

I think we need centers. If Mitch/Huk were good for 70 games next year we would be perfect. We know that's NOT happening so not sure how we go about it, but to me the only reason to move to Josh to the bench is for a 5 next to KAT. That makes us a bigger slow but great halfcourt team. You can play Josh at the 2/3/4 for Mikal/OG/KAT and suddenly he's our 30 mpg Iggy off the bench.

Need to shore up the 5 and ideally find a backup PG. McBride is wing, Payne is stop gap at best and Kolek is not an NBA player so Leon has some work to do, but I think we are building it right

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
GustavBahler
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4/25/2025  6:28 PM
fishmike wrote:
Knixkik wrote:Knicks just need to live with it in these playoffs. Over the summer identify a shooter who doesn’t hurt defensively to be the 5th starter, and let Hart be the fix the bench needs. 2 birds, 1 stone.

I think we need centers. If Mitch/Huk were good for 70 games next year we would be perfect. We know that's NOT happening so not sure how we go about it, but to me the only reason to move to Josh to the bench is for a 5 next to KAT. That makes us a bigger slow but great halfcourt team. You can play Josh at the 2/3/4 for Mikal/OG/KAT and suddenly he's our 30 mpg Iggy off the bench.

Need to shore up the 5 and ideally find a backup PG. McBride is wing, Payne is stop gap at best and Kolek is not an NBA player so Leon has some work to do, but I think we are building it right

Mitch hasnt come off the bench since his rookie season. A bench role might make 60-70 games (plus postseason) possible. I would rather see the FO make other moves and keep Mitch as a backup. See how he holds up over a season. Worth trying.

Unless he's traded, I think Kolek has a 50-50 chance of being the backup PG, with Deuce moved. If that happens, I'm guessing we'll see Mitch as a lob threat again. If Kolek hasnt progressed enough, I think we need to trade for a good backup PG who will run the offense, and not mostly look for their shot.

I get the feeling that if we have a first round exit, Rose is going to try and work the phones to bring DDV back. If that isnt done or doable, THJ is worth considering. Plays with a chip on his shoulder like DDV, and can get hot from beyond the arc.

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4/26/2025  12:33 PM
fishmike wrote:
Knixkik wrote:Knicks just need to live with it in these playoffs. Over the summer identify a shooter who doesn’t hurt defensively to be the 5th starter, and let Hart be the fix the bench needs. 2 birds, 1 stone.

I think we need centers. If Mitch/Huk were good for 70 games next year we would be perfect. We know that's NOT happening so not sure how we go about it, but to me the only reason to move to Josh to the bench is for a 5 next to KAT. That makes us a bigger slow but great halfcourt team. You can play Josh at the 2/3/4 for Mikal/OG/KAT and suddenly he's our 30 mpg Iggy off the bench.

Need to shore up the 5 and ideally find a backup PG. McBride is wing, Payne is stop gap at best and Kolek is not an NBA player so Leon has some work to do, but I think we are building it right

Agreed that we need to move Josh to the bench, disagree that we need to replace him with a center. Kat at his absolute best and is a force that other teams have to game plan for when he is at the 5. Replace Josh with a 2 way, 6'7/6'8 player that can shoot will make this offense even more potent. A player similar to Dorian Finney-Smith replacing Josh in the starting lineup will not only improve the defense but will put this offense on another lever and we finished top 5 with this team...I know some of us yearn for the physcality of the Oak/Mason teams but we are supremely skilled offensively and I think we should lean all the way into that.

Playing Kat next to a center would make us too slow...if anything, we need to play faster. When we play fast and Kat is guarded by a center, the trailer 3 is uaually available several times a game. Rim protecting centers natuarl instincts is to run to the paint in defensive transition which will give Kat a couple of looks from 3 ont he secondary break. When the centers come out to guard, now back door cuts are available without rim portection and OG and Mikal are some of the best cutters in the league. Not to mention, Kat is a really good passer when he is facing up. I like the idea of the option of pairing Kat with Mitch or another 5 off the bench when we need it. Kat the the 5 and another floor spacer in place of Josh would force teams to adjust and gameplan to play us as opposed to us having to adjust to other teams.

Kat has shown in the 1st 3 games that he can play defense better than he has shown most of the season. He'll never be a great defender, but schemes can help him a lot. He looks much better when he is trapping and hedging on the pick and roll as opposed to dropping in coverage....Also, I think he may have taking some plays off on the defensive end during the regular season.

I read somehere that our record when Kat is guarded by a center is something like 20+ games over 500, but we are under 500 when he is guarded by a wng.

jaydh
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4/29/2025  10:50 PM
VDesai wrote:
jaydh wrote:
martin wrote:The math adds up

He's a ballhog. But he's also a undersized sg playing pg

Lol literally the best leader and player to show up on the Knicks in 30 years and this is the discourse?

Damn right

Solving the KAT wing defense conundrum

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