HofstraBBall wrote:Great, so basically we saved our draft picks for years to give them up for Bridges and add our final final $60M Max player so that we can be a perennial third place team?

Bottom line, KAT cannot be your max player.
Brunson is too short and is more like a sixth man than star PG.
Bridges was not worth the picks.
OG is scared of his own shadow and is not worth $40M

Other than that, I feel good about us finally getting a chip!

I've been saying the bold from the jump.

Nalod wrote:So when we getting Whooped by Boston its all a downer.

Perennial 3rd seed team? Maybe. two years ago we were locked in with RJ, Quick,, Randle etc.
I can' tell your its all going to be good, but nobody can tell me the future either.
When things are good its al l"MVP>>>MVP" but when faced with adversity its "Oh whoa is me".
Its like a chip or die and all sucks.
Maybe for some. Some of you only chime in on losses. Your prerogative.

Nah. More like reasonable expectations.
Like watching our team.
As you said, much better than years ago.
But what I said above is the truth. Those that think differently can pretend it’s not and be disappointed every year.
Final moves were just not enough.
Watching KAT, OG and Bridges for years should have been a clearer sign.
Maybe MR elevation of defense brings a new light.

HofstraBBall wrote:

Nalod wrote:
Great teams are a work in progress.

1. The Cav's core been together now a few years. They been thru disappointment and injuries.
With a new coach perhaps there 3 year process is the template if this is to be their year.

2. Celtics been thru numerous reiterations with its sudden rise with he very young Tandem of Tatum and Brown. Took 2 years with Mazzulla at the helm. From Danny who laid the foundation to Stevens who moved form the bench to the front office.

3. Minny. Nice try. Two year window. Looks closed.

4. Denver's rise needed a healthy Murray to get it done. They knocked on the door a few times before. Now saddled with big contracts (porters hard to move) there might come a reboot?

5. OKC. They did it via the draft with trio of Harden, Durant and Westbrook and kept contention going. The PG13 trade worked great for them as it laid the foundation getting a great haul from clippers with picks and SGA! They bought in a new coach to grow with a young team and seemingly could keep this going for years in different forms.

6. SAS. They too have a plan and with Wemby out they have a long way to tank into good lottery odds to get Flagg. Smart getting Fox to move the time line up a bit with Wemby.

7. Knicks. Unlike rise 2nd year in the Thibian era but we in part two with Brunson as lead, then we eradicated the yoot movement trading IQ and RJ for OG. Fans cannot decide on the Mikal trade. Kat proved to be a great deal given both DDV and randle are not shining due to injuries thus far. Kudo's to Deuce and precious but our bench is thin. We new this, Leon knows this, and Windhorst told us it would take a few trade cycles to work out the rest of the team.

Expectations: We are close but not in the league of the top tier. We went from a defensive team to one that is not and enjoy a top tier offense. We got fans in Thibs first years saying we need an offensive coordinator now say we need a defensive coordinator questioning Thibs defensive chops.

I don't know where this all ends but 3rd place in the east is not shabby and this team is very good except with playing the teams ahead of us.

Great, so basically we saved our draft picks for years to give them up for Bridges and add our final final $60M Max player so that we can be a perennial third place team?

Bottom line, KAT cannot be your max player.
Brunson is too short and is more like a sixth man than star PG.
Bridges was not worth the picks.
OG is scared of his own shadow and is not worth $40M

Other than that, I feel good about us finally getting a chip!

I know that you are usually a negative Knick poster but this takes the cake. Any NBA basketball expert would laugh at this. I'm talking Hubie Brown type ...

Even if Kat is "Soft" and Brunson is "6th man", or OMG, Mikal is a disappointment and OG for what he is paid should be better.....Etc, then its clear that Knicks are not true contenders yet.
Nobody said they are. You may hope for it, or Bing Bong your way there but not to its existence.
Last year we went to second round. WE bowed out due mostly injury.
This year we may flat out get beat by one of Cav's or Boston. Same result, different path.
The road to greatness is not just about knicks, its about the other teams who each on a different path. Some may reach it, or do it again. We learned in the past great teams sometimes in teh bath of others. UTAH with Stockton and Malone, Knicks with Ewing, Sonics with Payton, Clev with Price and Daughtery, and then the Suns who were **** blocked by SAS or the Lakers in their primes.

No guarantees of anything.

BigRedDog wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

Nalod wrote:
Great teams are a work in progress.

1. The Cav's core been together now a few years. They been thru disappointment and injuries.
With a new coach perhaps there 3 year process is the template if this is to be their year.

2. Celtics been thru numerous reiterations with its sudden rise with he very young Tandem of Tatum and Brown. Took 2 years with Mazzulla at the helm. From Danny who laid the foundation to Stevens who moved form the bench to the front office.

3. Minny. Nice try. Two year window. Looks closed.

4. Denver's rise needed a healthy Murray to get it done. They knocked on the door a few times before. Now saddled with big contracts (porters hard to move) there might come a reboot?

5. OKC. They did it via the draft with trio of Harden, Durant and Westbrook and kept contention going. The PG13 trade worked great for them as it laid the foundation getting a great haul from clippers with picks and SGA! They bought in a new coach to grow with a young team and seemingly could keep this going for years in different forms.

6. SAS. They too have a plan and with Wemby out they have a long way to tank into good lottery odds to get Flagg. Smart getting Fox to move the time line up a bit with Wemby.

7. Knicks. Unlike rise 2nd year in the Thibian era but we in part two with Brunson as lead, then we eradicated the yoot movement trading IQ and RJ for OG. Fans cannot decide on the Mikal trade. Kat proved to be a great deal given both DDV and randle are not shining due to injuries thus far. Kudo's to Deuce and precious but our bench is thin. We new this, Leon knows this, and Windhorst told us it would take a few trade cycles to work out the rest of the team.

Expectations: We are close but not in the league of the top tier. We went from a defensive team to one that is not and enjoy a top tier offense. We got fans in Thibs first years saying we need an offensive coordinator now say we need a defensive coordinator questioning Thibs defensive chops.

I don't know where this all ends but 3rd place in the east is not shabby and this team is very good except with playing the teams ahead of us.

Great, so basically we saved our draft picks for years to give them up for Bridges and add our final final $60M Max player so that we can be a perennial third place team?

Bottom line, KAT cannot be your max player.
Brunson is too short and is more like a sixth man than star PG.
Bridges was not worth the picks.
OG is scared of his own shadow and is not worth $40M

Other than that, I feel good about us finally getting a chip!

I know that you are usually a negative Knick poster but this takes the cake. Any NBA basketball expert would laugh at this. I'm talking Hubie Brown type ...

Negative poster? Please elaborate.
Always realistic about changes. Even ones I don’t agree with.
If you call pointing out players like Grimes, Frank, Baker and the many more bandwagon bunch may not be good enough to take us to a conference finals. That’s just reality upsetting the unrealistic.

HOWEVER, you are right. Everything but calling JB a sixth man, imho, is the truth.
What I meant was that he has a sixth man mentality. We look at so many examples of excellent sixth men who have played and were instant buckets but rarely transitioned to starting roles because they had to polish their PG skills.
I would not easily trade JB. Definitely not bench him. His contract has excellent value and he produces above and beyond his pay grade.
He has taken the team on his shoulder many times. He is a two time All Star and team leader.
He has the very in his veins in close games.
My call is for him, as our best player, to elevate his game. Make others, who are supposedly high level, better and get them going. Realize it’s not just his offense that will be needed throughout the game. Too often it seems like he just comes out looking for buckets. Like a sixth man.
Also think besides drawing charges, his effort level on defense is non existent.
Believe he has one of the worst +/- on the team.

And again, we have a good team. Better than last year. I am just disappointed with our so called final pieces. I am sure we all have the same goal as fans. Which should be to win a chip.
We just gave up most of our assets for what is a three year project. Call me negative for thinking I don’t feel it’s enough. Maybe and hopefully Nalod is right. Maybe Rose still has some moves left.

HofstraBBall wrote:

Nalod wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

Nalod wrote:So when we getting Whooped by Boston its all a downer.

Perennial 3rd seed team? Maybe. two years ago we were locked in with RJ, Quick,, Randle etc.
I can' tell your its all going to be good, but nobody can tell me the future either.
When things are good its al l"MVP>>>MVP" but when faced with adversity its "Oh whoa is me".
Its like a chip or die and all sucks.
Maybe for some. Some of you only chime in on losses. Your prerogative.

Nah. More like reasonable expectations.
Like watching our team.
As you said, much better than years ago.
But what I said above is the truth. Those that think differently can pretend it’s not and be disappointed every year.
Final moves were just not enough.
Watching KAT, OG and Bridges for years should have been a clearer sign.
Maybe MR elevation of defense brings a new light.

could be and part of the big picture we can't see. Leon has been steps ahead of us for some time.
OKC was smart to pay iHart what they did to take him and its not a long term thing either. They have "windows" to think about.
Maybe we do also. Maybe getting Kat was really about having a piece in place to get Giannis?
Or as we hope a KAT/Mitch front line brings that "toughness" that is currently absent.
As they said today on TV, Brunson is a bit of a liability on defense. Kat makes a lot of errors.

His knee today was a bit of a concern.

Maybe.
Who or where do we have room?
We don’t sign Bridges? Hard to see us not signing a player Thibs uses almost 40mpg.
Trade KAT? Value is pretty high right now but feel they wanted him for a while, finally got him and he is doing well.

Don’t know. Just frustrated. Been watching KAT play soft for years and maybe too hard on him.
Feel you can’t win with a short PG and being too hard on JB.
Want OG (favorite player) to be what I think he can be on offense but it’s also what Raptor fans have been waiting for for years.
Don’t think we can compete against the Cavs or Celts front lines with JHart as our PF.

Only hope I see, is that MR comes in and makes us that much better.
If not, guess we do what you said and wait for what Rose has up his sleeve.

All fair points after a frustrating weekend.
Maybe a dose of reality with media pouring salt on the wound.
OG is obviously not in synch yet. But he lets the game come to him offensively but defensively he is a bad muthaphucher.
There was a play were I think it was Brown that sprung out in transition and all he had to do was beat OG who was there in the paint. Brown reset the play. He wanted no part of OG. not a stat stuffer but just one example. He gets the ball, he keeps it moving. Maybe too much. He is Kawahi Lite at best.
The money does make things a bit tougher to measure. He is paid well but in my mind a super valuable player that championship teams thrive with.
Offensively this is a season he is trying to do more. Sometimes that leads to turnovers when he is trying to back in a player and weak side blindsides him. Yes, offensively he can be better. I see him in that place where thinking rather than reacting is a process. His injury obviously created some rust.

I was never in the super fanboy Mikal arena but I think his uneven play is due to playing thru being banged up and our lack of bench. His play has tailed off when OG got hurt? His minutes up? When the ball is moving and team hitting their shots with him its a beautiful thing. I see the vision. He is a NovaKnick, he is here, Im not doing the "I never liked the trade". I trust Leon and while it might be a stretch, he is a steady commodity and a very good player.

The 0-7 is not a coach firing offense. Im redundant here and think while its not pleasant, our fandom does not allow to give kudos to the opponent who is simply a better team. If we were 3-4 or 2-5 vs those teams I doubt we'd be freaking out.

If its meant to be all the more glorious if it comes to fruition and Knicks are celebrated in the canyon of heroes. If not, its a process perhaps and the window stays open for another season or three. In the age of parity anything is possible but really with this bench I never saw us as real contenders. Im encouraged by Shamet's play of late as he is hitting shots now. Duece is transforming "again" with more iso response. Im not loving precious when he is more involved in the offense when the clock is short.
If KAT was a better rim protector he'd be league MVP. He gets lost. His rebounding is elite and we take that for granted. Guys that avg. 12 Rebs a game are not "soft". I too was shaking my head to why he was not pulled when the game was out of reach. But two minutes is not bloody awful. Teams can catch lightening which happens from time to time.

Im having fun this season. Not expecting much from Mitch for a few weeks. Its gonna take 13-20 games to get his **** together and thats still a big If. The man has not played in about 9 months.

Panos wrote:

Nalod wrote:The 0-7 is not a coach firing offense. Im redundant here and think while its not pleasant, our fandom does not allow to give kudos to the opponent who is simply a better team. If we were 3-4 or 2-5 vs those teams I doubt we'd be freaking out.

And if a horse had a horn it'd be a unicorn.
What's the relevance of your statement? They *aren't* 3-4 or 2-5. They've been BLOWN OUT 7 6 times.

Don't take that one close game against OKC away from me.

Panos wrote:

Nalod wrote:The 0-7 is not a coach firing offense. Im redundant here and think while its not pleasant, our fandom does not allow to give kudos to the opponent who is simply a better team. If we were 3-4 or 2-5 vs those teams I doubt we'd be freaking out.

And if a horse had a horn it'd be a unicorn.
What's the relevance of your statement? They *aren't* 3-4 or 2-5. They've been BLOWN OUT 7 times.

It is kind of what I said. WE did and fans are freaking.