And the Nets have been playing like a team that is not going to give up.

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martin wrote:like yours better

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I did too! But I wasn’t going to say it.

I’ll try to do better!

Clean wrote:

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The eye test was right again. Without all the ORebs I noticed we get no easy buckets. Turns out we are the slowest team in the league and its not close. Why do we play like an old team? If not for Josh Hart we might be the slowest team in history.

I thought we were slow because of Randle and Mitch, but without those two we’re still slow. I didn’t know we were the slowest just obviously slow. The difference became really obvious when Cam Payne picked up the pace and led the comeback against Chicago. So, it’s really a Brunson thing or a Thibs schematic thing? I like our offense when the ball is moving. When we become stagnant the game slows down to a grind it out rock fight. When the ball moves, you force the other team to defend and not rest on defense. Brunson loves to dribble, I don’t have answers.

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martin wrote:

Rookie wrote:

Clean wrote:

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The eye test was right again. Without all the ORebs I noticed we get no easy buckets. Turns out we are the slowest team in the league and its not close. Why do we play like an old team? If not for Josh Hart we might be the slowest team in history.

I thought we were slow because of Randle and Mitch, but without those two we’re still slow. I didn’t know we were the slowest just obviously slow. The difference became really obvious when Cam Payne picked up the pace and led the comeback against Chicago. So, it’s really a Brunson thing or a Thibs schematic thing? I like our offense when the ball is moving. When we become stagnant the game slows down to a grind it out rock fight. When the ball moves, you force the other team to defend and not rest on defense. Brunson loves to dribble, I don’t have answers.

The Knicks are one of the more offensively efficient teams this year and last. We also have one of the slower pace teams in the league. The Knicks offense is efficient enough that the pace really doesn't matter?

I am not sure if folks are looking for ways to critique something that really doesn't equate to wins really matters?

The pace of games slow when YOUR defense is also so good that is slows down the opponents.

Or it could be that the Knicks run their offense so well and don't just settle for whatever bull**** other bad offensive teams are doing even though they are doing it fast?

Things have to be actually detrimental to winning within the context of what your team is trying to do for it to really matter?

Feels like some of you are hunting to get grumpy at the Knicks and Thibs.

You know what I don't see in this chart? Anything that equates pace to wins.

Those are good points Martin. Curios I never realized that somehow I have developed a bias that faster is better but now that I’m thinking about it I have no idea why that would be the case. Other then getting to the basket before the other team can set up what is the advantage of pace? It’s easier to play offense then it is to defend so maybe if you can get teams out of their comfort zone by making them make decisions faster you can force them into making mistakes. It’s really an offensive strategy that could use some explaining

Clean wrote:

martin wrote:

Rookie wrote:

Clean wrote:

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https://www.twitter.com/BenRitholtzNBA/status/1857450420081139762

The eye test was right again. Without all the ORebs I noticed we get no easy buckets. Turns out we are the slowest team in the league and its not close. Why do we play like an old team? If not for Josh Hart we might be the slowest team in history.

I thought we were slow because of Randle and Mitch, but without those two we’re still slow. I didn’t know we were the slowest just obviously slow. The difference became really obvious when Cam Payne picked up the pace and led the comeback against Chicago. So, it’s really a Brunson thing or a Thibs schematic thing? I like our offense when the ball is moving. When we become stagnant the game slows down to a grind it out rock fight. When the ball moves, you force the other team to defend and not rest on defense. Brunson loves to dribble, I don’t have answers.

The Knicks are one of the more offensively efficient teams this year and last. We also have one of the slower pace teams in the league. The Knicks offense is efficient enough that the pace really doesn't matter?

I am not sure if folks are looking for ways to critique something that really doesn't equate to wins really matters?

The pace of games slow when YOUR defense is also so good that is slows down the opponents.

Or it could be that the Knicks run their offense so well and don't just settle for whatever bull**** other bad offensive teams are doing even though they are doing it fast?

Things have to be actually detrimental to winning within the context of what your team is trying to do for it to really matter?

Feels like some of you are hunting to get grumpy at the Knicks and Thibs.

You know what I don't see in this chart? Anything that equates pace to wins.

Pace always matters because those are easy baskets. You can't ask does pace matter and then love it when Hart does his rebound to fastbreak plays. Just because someone says to speed up does not mean to just take bad shots. There is no need for that strawman argument. Also did you forget the Pacers? One of the fastest teams in the league with one of the best offenses in the league. You speed up to get an easy shot. If you don't find one you start your offense early and have the defense off guard because they are not able to get the matchups they wanted like if you walk the ball every single time. No one is saying pace is everything but if we had more easy baskets we win some of these close games or maybe not be one of the worst teams in the 4th.

It don’t make the Knicks any worse over the course of things, so your assumption does not hold.

Let me repeat my opening. Knicks have one of the most offensively efficient offenses. They have the slowest pace.

Pace has not hurt the former.

Pace can get you good, easy shots. A good defending and rebounding team that does not leak out like Obi and neglect those things that are defensive in lieu of getting pace up, well you prevent the other team from scoring, so it affects winning.

What you are talking about is MDA style stuff. It don’t necessarily lead to wins. Because sometimes it’s just bad O or D.

Winning is the goal, not running fast. You obviously want to create easy scoring opportunities for team but not at the detriment to those things that are more effective to a style for your roster that leads to wins.

No team is perfect. You’ll find plenty of flaws to grind against if you want.

Knicks team goal is NET rating.

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