Think all this will be worked out. Just need to give these guys time to gel. Not sure what some expected but when you put three new guys in starting rotation (2 major pieces new to the team), you will have growing pains.

Clean wrote:I love the idea of starting Precious in place of Hart. He rebounds, plays D, is mobile and can hit an occasional outside shot. This means Thibs can gives the starters a rest because he actually trusts Hart.

I keep saying that Hart at 4 and Bridges at the 2 is not a chip team.
However, like Precious but him at 4 is farther away from chip than Hart.
Hart pushes ball extremely well, is a glue guy and rebounds decently.

Feel Bridges and Hart in second unit is where we want to be.
With upgrades at 2 and 5 , KAT at 4.
But how do we do that if we are paying KAT what we are and after giving up so much for Bridges?
(Here is where all the guys that claimed those were good moves with options can chime in?)

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://www.twitter.com/NBA_NewYork/status/1856317521235771858

Drop also seems to be hurting Bridges as well. How many times do we see Bridges chasing behind the player he is guarding after fighting over the screen. If Kat comes up, you can get a quick double team (think Riley and Van Gundy Knicks) or a switch. Would much rather see, OG, Hart and our quicker players scrambling to recover as opposed to KAT unsuccessfully trying to play drop.

MS wrote:Still don't love the KAT trade from our perspective. We lost real depth and a bench that would have remained elite. Playoff minutes 10 games into the regular season is a recipe for disaster. We also lost two guys that could make plays, we really don't have that from a creation standpoint. KAT's offense is elite and undenianable, but the cupboard is bare and the assets to get better are non existent.

Certainly adding Mitch, next to KAT is going to improve every level of the defense and getting two guy back that can take minutes will cure the tired legs, but something just doesn't look right out there.

fishmike wrote:

MS wrote:Still don't love the KAT trade from our perspective. We lost real depth and a bench that would have remained elite. Playoff minutes 10 games into the regular season is a recipe for disaster. We also lost two guys that could make plays, we really don't have that from a creation standpoint. KAT's offense is elite and undenianable, but the cupboard is bare and the assets to get better are non existent.

Certainly adding Mitch, next to KAT is going to improve every level of the defense and getting two guy back that can take minutes will cure the tired legs, but something just doesn't look right out there.

this time last year we were 5-5 and starting Grimes at SG. Do we have any faith in this coaching staff to figure out the best way to make this work?

Why wouldn't we trust them? They've done before. If there is anyone who can make the most out of KAT at C despite his defensive shortcomings, it's Thibs.

EwingsGlass wrote:

fishmike wrote:

MS wrote:Still don't love the KAT trade from our perspective. We lost real depth and a bench that would have remained elite. Playoff minutes 10 games into the regular season is a recipe for disaster. We also lost two guys that could make plays, we really don't have that from a creation standpoint. KAT's offense is elite and undenianable, but the cupboard is bare and the assets to get better are non existent.

Certainly adding Mitch, next to KAT is going to improve every level of the defense and getting two guy back that can take minutes will cure the tired legs, but something just doesn't look right out there.

this time last year we were 5-5 and starting Grimes at SG. Do we have any faith in this coaching staff to figure out the best way to make this work?

Everything we are talking about is kind of pre-mature, but interesting so, we keep doing it. Bear in mind everything here is based on microscopic sample sets. The next two games could shift any discussion points dramatically just by how small the sample sets are.,

1) Knicks eFG is elite, but they can still do better. Shot selection is loose, but they are hitting shots so there isn't much to complain about. Adding more motion to the offense and better passing should allow the Knicks to get to their spots.
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/knicks-shot-chart-this-season
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/cavaliers-shot-chart-this-season
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/celtics-shot-chart-this-season

2) Knicks Starting lineup splits for the 1st vs 4th quarter are interesting. +10.7 vs -21.9. Either guys are tired at the end of the game and getting beat or they aren't adjusting as the game progresses and the other teams are. There is a 37 point swing in defensive rating between those quarters that makes up the entire difference. My gut is that they are just fatigued.

https://www.nba.com/stats/lineups/advanced?slug=advanced&GroupQuantity=5&TeamID=1610612752&Period=1
https://www.nba.com/stats/lineups/advanced?slug=advanced&GroupQuantity=5&TeamID=1610612752&Period=4

The first to forth quarter swings could also just be a product of the starters playing a good majority of the first quarter and then half the games the Knicks have played have been blowouts, both loses and wins, and that swings the guys who are both playing the forth quarter and the disparity.

Along with small sample sizes and early season stuff.

martin wrote:This is missing Mitch, iHart, Randle. Even Precious too

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://www.twitter.com/nba_newyork/status/1856131237082980619

Yes - I mean we have a smaller/unathletic PG, 2 non-rebounding wings and a 6'4" quasi wing.

It's hard to argue that Kat hasn't held his own 12.3 per and #5 in the league.

OG seems to be putting in effort, same for Hart but Mikal seems allergic to both rebounds and free throws.

Another factor is our D has been piss poor - often leaving us running around in late rotations and unfavorable rebound positions. Teams also chuck a ton of 3's against our D and that leads to lots of long rebounds.

Maybe as our base D settles down (hopefully) our set defense will rebound better.

EwingsGlass wrote:

franco12 wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:1) OG belongs at SF as his base position. This isn’t to say he can’t guard the others, but having him at SF is a positional size advantage that we are not taking advantage of.

2) Bridges, Hart and OG can’t all be free safeties. They are all stunting — a lot. I don’t mean any disrespect to Hart, as I see him as really good complement to the team with his versatility, but I’d feel a lot more comfortable with a starting caliber PF - JB-MB-OG-__-KAT

3) KAT’s defense will improve here, but he isn’t the real problem. He is a willing defender. He is not the breakdown on defense. It’s the rotations and stunting. Some of this is communication, some of it is just getting used to each other.

4) Having a bench will help. These guys looked gassed in the 4th. But other teams are also making adjustments and while they have players to make adjustments when healthy, they don’t really have the ability to throw a different look on the court.

5) Starting caliber PF would be my primary upgrade. Defensive PF. Eason, JJJ, Jones, Isaac all have their plausibility. But JJJ, imo, would lock this team up. Brunson/Bridges/OG/JJJ/KAT? Would be a bonanza

This is why I think we should have Sims start alongside Kat- he’s not the PF any of us want- but he adds interior defense, solid rebounding. That allows you to move OG to SF.

Hart to the bench (and/or Bridges) strengthens the bench. I’m not suggesting giving Sims really any more than 20/24 mins.

I think Achiuwa is the PF I would accept.

This +1

Knicksfan wrote:

ItalianStallion wrote:Towns is certainly not a plus defender like Mitch or Hartenstein, but we traded Randle who is not a positive defender and added Bridges who supposedly is.

How is it we have the 2nd worst defense in the league based on defensive efficiency.

Because right now Bridges suck on everything.

Yes, Towns isn’t going to clean up mistakes like Mitch and IHart used to do, but he wasn’t supposed to because we had Bridges and OG doing their tricks. Well, so far OG is handling his business, but Bridges is a reading problem. He is always late in his cover, somehow doesn’t know how to move under screens and then doesn’t recover on time. Last game against the Pacers was a freaking nightmare. He would do that, which would free a 3pt shooter on one end, then he would take a bad jumper and clank it on the other side.

It’s ironic that the Towns move has been so criticized, yet it’s the Bridges move that it’s proving to be a bust so far. With the “need to change my jumper” that still looks like a mess and now this trouble with something that was supposed to be a strength, his D, I’m really hating the move.

And yes, other players take their blame too. Hart has been torched in consecutive nights by players having career nights against him. Brunson looks slow and even confused on defense sometimes. The defense sucks so bad.

But Bridges to me has been a huge disappointment so far.

It's not just Bridges - Hart has already had 2 games where the guys he matched up with out of the gate went for career highs - Risacher 36 and Mathurin 38. It's been a collective effort with Brunson/Kat doing close to nothing, everyone messing up switches and just a bevy of bad D.

We've been at or below .500 after 10 games in 3 of 4 years under Thibs - slow starts on D seem to be common early though this year seems more concerning.