LivingLegend wrote:I tend to think Mitch will be moved with another player (who?) to bring in a solid (more reliable) rotation player -- small or big.

Could be wrong and maybe Thibs is chomping at the bit to get him back healthy.

Don't like Mitch as a fit next to Kat (understand Kat/Rudy had some success) and I just find Mitch's offense a complete drain. His offensive rebounds are boosted by fact he's always standing around the basket (clogging up the paint). He doesn't screen, pass, shoot and don't want to watch hacks-mitch in playoffs.

Dangerous to play Mitch at all if we have intentions of trading him because he will be limping by minute 5 on the court --- I could see him moved before he ever steps on court again.

I don't see Mitch as a match-up advantage against Boston/Indy (perimeter bigs) but he could be helpful against Philly/Orlando/Milwaukee (helping with the Greek).

Herb Jones

LivingLegend wrote:

martin wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:I tend to think Mitch will be moved with another player (who?) to bring in a solid (more reliable) rotation player -- small or big.

Could be wrong and maybe Thibs is chomping at the bit to get him back healthy.

Don't like Mitch as a fit next to Kat (understand Kat/Rudy had some success) and I just find Mitch's offense a complete drain. His offensive rebounds are boosted by fact he's always standing around the basket (clogging up the paint). He doesn't screen, pass, shoot and don't want to watch hacks-mitch in playoffs.

Dangerous to play Mitch at all if we have intentions of trading him because he will be limping by minute 5 on the court --- I could see him moved before he ever steps on court again.

I don't see Mitch as a match-up advantage against Boston/Indy (perimeter bigs) but he could be helpful against Philly/Orlando/Milwaukee (helping with the Greek).

Herb Jones

The (who?) I had was in regard to who the Knicks would be willing to trade with Mitch to improve the package.

Herb is one of my favorite non-star players - love the D, length and solid 3 point shot BUT just don't see N.O. giving us Herb for Mitch - unless we are adding in an extra goodie and at least the Washing pick. Problem is what is the extra goodie? Don't think N.O. would value Precious that much and doubt we'd give up Deuce.

For Herb Jones I'd be awfully tempted to put something together. Along with being a great add - he'd be insurance to OG/Mikal/Hart injuries.

Would you trade Mitch/Deuce for Herb?

No, too much. Mitch alone, yes.

martin wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:

martin wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:I tend to think Mitch will be moved with another player (who?) to bring in a solid (more reliable) rotation player -- small or big.

Could be wrong and maybe Thibs is chomping at the bit to get him back healthy.

Don't like Mitch as a fit next to Kat (understand Kat/Rudy had some success) and I just find Mitch's offense a complete drain. His offensive rebounds are boosted by fact he's always standing around the basket (clogging up the paint). He doesn't screen, pass, shoot and don't want to watch hacks-mitch in playoffs.

Dangerous to play Mitch at all if we have intentions of trading him because he will be limping by minute 5 on the court --- I could see him moved before he ever steps on court again.

I don't see Mitch as a match-up advantage against Boston/Indy (perimeter bigs) but he could be helpful against Philly/Orlando/Milwaukee (helping with the Greek).

Herb Jones

The (who?) I had was in regard to who the Knicks would be willing to trade with Mitch to improve the package.

Herb is one of my favorite non-star players - love the D, length and solid 3 point shot BUT just don't see N.O. giving us Herb for Mitch - unless we are adding in an extra goodie and at least the Washing pick. Problem is what is the extra goodie? Don't think N.O. would value Precious that much and doubt we'd give up Deuce.

For Herb Jones I'd be awfully tempted to put something together. Along with being a great add - he'd be insurance to OG/Mikal/Hart injuries.

Would you trade Mitch/Deuce for Herb?

No, too much. Mitch alone, yes.

Let me follow this up.

Mitch for Herb Jones swap is a tough swallow for both teams. For NOP, it’s the fact that Mitch has missed so much time and he is out right now. For NY, they know Mitch’s potential impact on not only games but full on playoff series, and he plays a position and role that Knicks are thin, they would want something back to replace those things that Mitch brings or they would want to fortify enough of those other areas from which they are getting in the return so that the trade makes sense.

I don’t know this for sure but I’d guess that GM and those types do value long term regular season availability, there should be little no doubt there. Herb Jones is a high end version of that as he is a well defined defender and well know offense player (spacer, cutter, not high offensive impact but very capable and within a role). Is he playoff capable and impactful? TBD. The TBD part is more when not if and that’ll be the risk part on the other end of the trade.

With Mitch, you KNOW he can impact a full playoff game or series. The risk is availability.

There is a reason GM’s sign Embiid, PG, Harden, etc. to insane contracts even with their well documented risk: cause they can impact when it really matters. Those GM/Pres types barely care if those players are available during the regular season (although they know the impact on team and are constantly mitigating), their dollars are (mostly or more typically) earned in other ways, both in terms of playoffs or other non basketball direct things. That last sentence is a big give or take grey area for every team and their situation and would change year to year, think luxury tax, cap situation, playoff versus tank team, etc.

Most GM/Pres types in this swap scenario would care more at a playoff impact level than on the availability side of things in terms with Mitch. This is the guess part for me.

IMHO Leon would never trade Mitch/Deuce for Herb Jones because even in an injury situation, he is losing 2 playoff trust guys for Thibs and not getting enough back that cover what he is potentially losing (middle depth). So maybe Yves Missi mitigates.

Something like that. I’d guess that’s what Leon is thinking in that situation.

On the other side of the coin, Zion has not made a playoffs appearance and the Pelicans have been bereft of a playoff series win since 2017-18. They have won exactly 1 playoff series since 2009. It’s nearly 2025 and that’s when desperation meets an insane trade that could be exploited by Leon.

shinmen wrote:

martin wrote:

martin wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:

martin wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:I tend to think Mitch will be moved with another player (who?) to bring in a solid (more reliable) rotation player -- small or big.

Could be wrong and maybe Thibs is chomping at the bit to get him back healthy.

Don't like Mitch as a fit next to Kat (understand Kat/Rudy had some success) and I just find Mitch's offense a complete drain. His offensive rebounds are boosted by fact he's always standing around the basket (clogging up the paint). He doesn't screen, pass, shoot and don't want to watch hacks-mitch in playoffs.

Dangerous to play Mitch at all if we have intentions of trading him because he will be limping by minute 5 on the court --- I could see him moved before he ever steps on court again.

I don't see Mitch as a match-up advantage against Boston/Indy (perimeter bigs) but he could be helpful against Philly/Orlando/Milwaukee (helping with the Greek).

Herb Jones

The (who?) I had was in regard to who the Knicks would be willing to trade with Mitch to improve the package.

Herb is one of my favorite non-star players - love the D, length and solid 3 point shot BUT just don't see N.O. giving us Herb for Mitch - unless we are adding in an extra goodie and at least the Washing pick. Problem is what is the extra goodie? Don't think N.O. would value Precious that much and doubt we'd give up Deuce.

For Herb Jones I'd be awfully tempted to put something together. Along with being a great add - he'd be insurance to OG/Mikal/Hart injuries.

Would you trade Mitch/Deuce for Herb?

No, too much. Mitch alone, yes.

Let me follow this up.

Mitch for Herb Jones swap is a tough swallow for both teams. For NOP, it’s the fact that Mitch has missed so much time and he is out right now. For NY, they know Mitch’s potential impact on not only games but full on playoff series, and he plays a position and role that Knicks are thin, they would want something back to replace those things that Mitch brings or they would want to fortify enough of those other areas from which they are getting in the return so that the trade makes sense.

I don’t know this for sure but I’d guess that GM and those types do value long term regular season availability, there should be little no doubt there. Herb Jones is a high end version of that as he is a well defined defender and well know offense player (spacer, cutter, not high offensive impact but very capable and within a role). Is he playoff capable and impactful? TBD. The TBD part is more when not if and that’ll be the risk part on the other end of the trade.

With Mitch, you KNOW he can impact a full playoff game or series. The risk is availability.

There is a reason GM’s sign Embiid, PG, Harden, etc. to insane contracts even with their well documented risk: cause they can impact when it really matters. Those GM/Pres types barely care if those players are available during the regular season (although they know the impact on team and are constantly mitigating), their dollars are (mostly or more typically) earned in other ways, both in terms of playoffs or other non basketball direct things. That last sentence is a big give or take grey area for every team and their situation and would change year to year, think luxury tax, cap situation, playoff versus tank team, etc.

Most GM/Pres types in this swap scenario would care more at a playoff impact level than on the availability side of things in terms with Mitch. This is the guess part for me.

IMHO Leon would never trade Mitch/Deuce for Herb Jones because even in an injury situation, he is losing 2 playoff trust guys for Thibs and not getting enough back that cover what he is potentially losing (middle depth). So maybe Yves Missi mitigates.

Something like that. I’d guess that’s what Leon is thinking in that situation.

On the other side of the coin, Zion has not made a playoffs appearance and the Pelicans have been bereft of a playoff series win since 2017-18. They have won exactly 1 playoff series since 2009. It’s nearly 2025 and that’s when desperation meets an insane trade that could be exploited by Leon.

I have a friend who lives in New Orleans. They absolutely LOVE Herb Jones (with good reason). He's on a good contract, was elected first team all defense and is shooting a lot better. He's absolutely vital to their defense. I might be wrong but i don't think they trade Jones for Mitch and Deuce. They would love Mitch I think but they would rather break the bank for Myles Turner.

As much as I hate it, I think any trade with NOP would include both Deuce and Mitch. But I don't think that is enough from the Knicks side of things, I could be wrong.

NOP main guys right now: Zion, Brandon Ingram, Trey Murphy, Dejounte Murray, McCollum, Herb Jones, Jordan Hawkins, Jose Alvarado. The C spot for them is well regarded rookie Yves Missi and second string backup Daniel Theis. The need for a starting level C is pretty obvious. NOP got 1 guy over 6'9 who is currently in their main rotation.

BI is on an expiring contract, McCollum more more year after this one and just turned 33yo. They have some overlapping positional roles that those 2 guys cover, something will happen to one of those guys eventually.

Deuce would fit in the McCollum spot next to Dijounte very nicely as the POA defender and spacer. Mitch would cover up a lot of what Zion and their SF are not doing on the defensive end of things.

We shall see how this plays out.

SergioNYK wrote:We are not beating Philly and Embiid without Mitch. If you're gonna trade him, it's got to be for another big man.

Philly ain't beating NY without Embiid and PG. Those guys have a lot of worries on their hands.

Knixkik wrote:I;m happy to just stick with Mitch. Maybe as a backup in less minutes he can stay healthier. 20 mpg most games.

Same. Mitch gives a different look and he may not have enough O for a starter, but he definitely fills a needed role.
I still think that Precious starts and Hart to the bench and picture this:
SL: JB, Mikal, OG, PA, KAT
Bench: Campaign, Deuce, shooter (one of Ryan/Shamet/Pacman), Hart, Mitch

Panos wrote:Any player better than Deuce is a starter. Are you looking to get a starter and put them on the bench and start drama?

He would have to be a better player and make the same money or less. How many guys out there really fit that criteria? Not many (or maybe any.)