martin wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

martin wrote:No wasting time.

Without forcing the issue, definitely yes. We don’t know how long this Brunson level will last. And the rest of the group is clicking. I think the front office can convince themselves Brunson is a 1A guy. They just need another B guy.

Even after Randle?

Trade Randle thread?

Going "All In" would be more like going "All "Out".
Knicks would have to give up 2 or 3 of their good players plus draft picks for guys like Spida and KT.
Not to mention, they would probably be one of our bargain contracts.
So why do that?
Some have to understand that we are no longer a team that needs to go "All In"
Do the Warriors, Buck, Celta, Nuggets, etc, need to go "All In"?
We now have several key pieces needed for a chip team.
We have to or 3 legitimate All Stars.
We have a good defensive minded coach.
We have guys that can shoot the three.
Finally!
We just need to add more smart pieces and low cost draft picks to fill small gaps.
Keep our Cap flexibility as long as possible.
Resign players who have fit well and elevated their games here.
But most importantly, maintain Chemistry.
I am looking for the FO to be smart enough to realize that minor adjustments can be made but remember the run we had in January when all our main pieces were healthy.

I like this response.

For me, "All In" doesn't have to mean that we trade a bunch of players and picks for a starphuck, I am not even thinking of KAT or Spida or whatnot.

It does mean using as much of your resources as soon as you can to upgrade your team - could be bench, could be another 1b or 1c type starter, could be another 1a superstar - to maximize the amount of years you are having with Brunson to win as many championships as you can. The Knicks have not been in this mode and I think they are about to switch.

Like, if Knicks have identified their targets - whether that be Mikal or an overqualified bench PG - I would expect them to NOT wait patiently for the right *time* but be willing to slightly overpay to bring that level of player to your team now KNOWING you are now going for it. And to be honest, Brock Aller ain't gonna let us overpay but we'll all make sure a few second rounders come back in any trade to make him happy.

Up until maybe the Grimes trade, feel like the Knicks have been in slow, brick by brick build mode. I think that is about to change - whether draft or summer or just after the next season starts. The Knicks are gonna make different types of decisions that leads to moves or maybe it'll just be one move. The January run told us this. Not for nothing, but this playoffs for the Knicks is going to be a gigantic dry run - ignited by Jan run - for every other decision of what the FO will do going forward IMHO. It's unfortunate they don't have Randle; he gave it his best shot.

IMHO Mikal is going to get heavy consideration - iHart, Randle, OG, Mikal, Brunson - is just too juicy given the chemistry already created by Hart, DDV, Brunson. It's palpable. Mikal is also a near impossible challenge. But so was Brunson and OG and things got done.

After that....? Play making bench player? Doesn't have to necessarily be a PG.

In the back of my mind, one of the reasons to trade Grimes was to upgrade the contracts that you can trade going out, namely Bogey, Burks, Precious as examples. You could have kept Fournier but he is literally an anchor type trade player and Bogey is infinitely more moveable at the same contract level. Burks and Precious gives you smaller contracts you can mix and match. They can still give you semi quality minutes - thereby also gaiving a chance to enhance or at least keep value - while having small and medium contracts to match incoming salary. Grimes was heading in the wrong direction to the bench,W and now as a bonus, they have McBride as an incredible valuable trade asset.

This draft time period and summer are going to be wet and wild for the Knicks.

Right. Knicks should go all in by spending to keep their role players.

martin wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:Right. Knicks should go all in by spending to keep their role players.

What does this mean to you cause I can't figure it out?

I'm thinking 30 for OG, 14 for IHart, and 8 for Precious. Bring back Ryan Arcidiacono on a vet min contract.

Vet min for Burkes? Not sure what kind of a market he has. He's been the most disappointing player this season. Injuries happen. They suck but nothing you can do. Burkes has just been a huge disappointment. He needs Dr. Evil's time machine to go back and find his mojo.Maybe once Randle comes back, he and Burkes can recapture some of that magic.

Knicks also pick up BB's player option. He's not there yet but BB has kinda sorta been looking like the second shot creator the Knicks need in the non- Brunson minutes to keep the offense afloat. For most of his career about 5O% of his shot attempts were from 3 point land. For April he's been shooting 60% of his shots from 2 point land at 56%. That's been a big help in a lot of games when the Knicks have fallen behind early.

My concern is will giving up key role players, for a guy like Bridges, truly upgrade our team?
Glue guys are often overlooked for the flashy stat player.
But think we are mostly on the same page.
Look for players that can make us better without losing key pieces.

From what we saw in January, we had 2 All Stars complementing each other well. Ones who covered the major part of the scoring.
We had several players that fit seamlessly in specific roles.
Several players who shined in the bright city lights of NY.
Thinking we will reward the ones who proved they fit and can play here.
Add draft picks to keep cap flexibility and hope they fill the production of expensive alternatives, like Burks,

We can always use the first half to see if January was a fluke or if guys outplaying their contracts, can do so consistently .

Regardless, great position to be in. One that we have not been in since the 90s.

Knixkik wrote:The cool thing is going “all-in” could mean a number of things with this group. Without knowing the unexpected, here are some of the different versions of all-in.

1. Locking up our core first and foremost. Making sure all 5 starters are locked in longterm plus deuce and Mitch who essentially are.

2. After that we could either look at Spida or KAT and consider them slight upgrades over DDV or Randle in our lineup, but there’s risk there.

3. Outside of obvious starters, we can go all-in by solidifying the bench in a major way. Convincing DeRozan he would be the ideal 6th man at this stage of his career to dominate for 25 minutes a game would be interesting. Revisiting a D Murray trade and hoping he can adjust to a bench role is a possibility too. We have an elite starting lineup so adding a top 50-75 player for the bench would be something of an all-in.

4. Lastly, we could target a role player who doesn’t have an elite scoring role but adds to what the team already does. This would be someone like Alex Caruso. Overpaying so the Bulls can’t say no and adding him to the bench would make this team a better version of what they are without risk of disruption and running it back to some degree. The Bulls won’t want to deal him, but outside of an unexpected playoff run, the responsible thing for them to do is to restock with first round picks and add youth to Coby White for whatever the next version of their rebuild is. Caruso would be an amazing fit in both non-Brunson and Brunson lineups and would solidify a historic defensive team.

Totally agree with number 1. Although, think they are really good at finding low cost FA that would fill roles. So if IHart and PA becomes too costly, they may look to spin their magic once again.

No no and no on 2. Kat will be making over 60 mil a year. What has he done for Minnesota that Randle has not done for the Knicks. Thibs and KAT?
Spida is another starphuck and will take most of your draft picks but several of the players who are responsible for all of our current positive vibes. Why not wait a year when he is a FA. Let's learn from our past.

Do you really think DeRozan and Murray want to go to the Knicks to be bench pieces? How do you think that will affect our current chemistry? Murray is allegedly not happy when ball is not in his hands in ATL. Bit he will be okay on the bench?

"Overpaying for Alex Caruso?" I'll let you read that a couple of times and see what that sounds like to you?

Think the FO has shown us what their thought process is in the off season several times.
Bring in solid, under the radar talent at reasonable contracts.
The big splash guy most are thinking, is probably not the guy they are thinking of.
Other than OG, who was also not a fan favorite prior to trade, they have surprised us with guys that most thought would not be game changers. And showed how much more they know.

gradyandrew wrote:Those numbers put Knicks at about 182 million in salary (with Burkes and Arcidiacono on get min deals.) Not sure about our draft picks. I'm kind of of the opinion that flipping them for future picks is more valuable.

Brunson/ McBride
DDV/ Hart
OG/ BB
Randle/ Precious
IHart/ Mitchell

doesn't leave much room for player development. On the other hand two mid 20 picks could likely land guys more useful than Burkes, Sims, Shake.Daquan, and Jacob.

If OG opts in and the Knicks extend, it opens up the possibility of using the full MLE.

Sorry im late to the party but I like this idea. I believe every championship caliber team always finds a rookie gem who contributes. I don’t remember his name but reading the mock draft they had us picking a Josh hart type player. And with OGs health risk but huge impact, this team does well with guys like that. A 2 way player who’s also unselfish on offense but impacts on defense with high IQ. Deuce, Harts, but especially OG. Would like to see us draft a long wing that can play multiple positions. I’m sure in the mid 20s is where you can draft a solid 4 year player ready to impact right away off the bench.

So yes I believe we are already in the “all in mode” and yes we only have a tight window for Brunson to play at this level. Let’s take advantage of that. I’m sure that’s what Leon and company are saying to each other everyday. And if using Randle as a trade bait, sure. But I wouldn’t give him away. He spent most of the second half watching and learning how he can really impact this team while allowing others to continue to grow. Randle doesn’t have to do it all anymore and I’m sure he recognizes that especially with OG on the team and Bogs off the bench. Or Josh Hart playing spot mins at PF.

Randle might be the key move or non move.

Cleaning up the end of the bench guys is a move.

Improving the B squad by adding another playmaker is a move.

But gutting the team for a star is not the move. There’s no MJ, Kobe or young lebron anymore. Giannus is intriguing and so is mykal. But improving brick by brick seams to work so why change that. Chemistry is huge and sometimes better than individual talent.

gradyandrew wrote:

martin wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:Right. Knicks should go all in by spending to keep their role players.

What does this mean to you cause I can't figure it out?

I'm thinking 30 for OG, 14 for IHart, and 8 for Precious. Bring back Ryan Arcidiacono on a vet min contract.

Vet min for Burkes? Not sure what kind of a market he has. He's been the most disappointing player this season. Injuries happen. They suck but nothing you can do. Burkes has just been a huge disappointment. He needs Dr. Evil's time machine to go back and find his mojo.Maybe once Randle comes back, he and Burkes can recapture some of that magic.

Knicks also pick up BB's player option. He's not there yet but BB has kinda sorta been looking like the second shot creator the Knicks need in the non- Brunson minutes to keep the offense afloat. For most of his career about 5O% of his shot attempts were from 3 point land. For April he's been shooting 60% of his shots from 2 point land at 56%. That's been a big help in a lot of games when the Knicks have fallen behind early.

Oh yes, of course. That was my baseline assumption. Bring back those guys. I was talking next step after

Knixkik wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

Knixkik wrote:The cool thing is going “all-in” could mean a number of things with this group. Without knowing the unexpected, here are some of the different versions of all-in.

1. Locking up our core first and foremost. Making sure all 5 starters are locked in longterm plus deuce and Mitch who essentially are.

2. After that we could either look at Spida or KAT and consider them slight upgrades over DDV or Randle in our lineup, but there’s risk there.

3. Outside of obvious starters, we can go all-in by solidifying the bench in a major way. Convincing DeRozan he would be the ideal 6th man at this stage of his career to dominate for 25 minutes a game would be interesting. Revisiting a D Murray trade and hoping he can adjust to a bench role is a possibility too. We have an elite starting lineup so adding a top 50-75 player for the bench would be something of an all-in.

4. Lastly, we could target a role player who doesn’t have an elite scoring role but adds to what the team already does. This would be someone like Alex Caruso. Overpaying so the Bulls can’t say no and adding him to the bench would make this team a better version of what they are without risk of disruption and running it back to some degree. The Bulls won’t want to deal him, but outside of an unexpected playoff run, the responsible thing for them to do is to restock with first round picks and add youth to Coby White for whatever the next version of their rebuild is. Caruso would be an amazing fit in both non-Brunson and Brunson lineups and would solidify a historic defensive team.

Totally agree with number 1. Although, think they are really good at finding low cost FA that would fill roles. So if IHart and PA becomes too costly, they may look to spin their magic once again.

No no and no on 2. Kat will be making over 60 mil a year. What has he done for Minnesota that Randle has not done for the Knicks. Thibs and KAT?
Spida is another starphuck and will take most of your draft picks but several of the players who are responsible for all of our current positive vibes. Why not wait a year when he is a FA. Let's learn from our past.

Do you really think DeRozan and Murray want to go to the Knicks to be bench pieces? How do you think that will affect our current chemistry? Murray is allegedly not happy when ball is not in his hands in ATL. Bit he will be okay on the bench?

"Overpaying for Alex Caruso?" I'll let you read that a couple of times and see what that sounds like to you?

Think the FO has shown us what their thought process is in the off season several times.
Bring in solid, under the radar talent at reasonable contracts.
The big splash guy most are thinking, is probably not the guy they are thinking of.
Other than OG, who was also not a fan favorite prior to trade, they have surprised us with guys that most thought would not be game changers. And showed how much more they know.

Yeah I’m not saying all or any of these are the answer. Just giving some possibilities. What I will say about Caruso is, outside of injury, how is OG working out for us? Well Caruso is another version of OG. The Chicago team is terrible defensively without him and great with him. So if we want to continue with our current path and think we are really close, paying a premium for him isn’t the worst thing. I’m not talking a ton of future picks or something. The Derrick white trade to Boston is sort of the comparable idea.

Fan of Caruso. Wanted him when he was a FA.
But just don't think he moves the needle enough to give any considerable assets.
And as you said it yourself, Bulls would want something considerable.
Was never big on giving up anything for a possible injury. No matter how likely it is that OG misses games.
Rather draft a defensive prototype to provide the same type of insurance or pick up another FA value. Like Derick Jones Jr. Is one. Has a 7ft wingspan and can guard multiple spots. Can be had for cheap.

HofstraBBall wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

Knixkik wrote:The cool thing is going “all-in” could mean a number of things with this group. Without knowing the unexpected, here are some of the different versions of all-in.

1. Locking up our core first and foremost. Making sure all 5 starters are locked in longterm plus deuce and Mitch who essentially are.

2. After that we could either look at Spida or KAT and consider them slight upgrades over DDV or Randle in our lineup, but there’s risk there.

3. Outside of obvious starters, we can go all-in by solidifying the bench in a major way. Convincing DeRozan he would be the ideal 6th man at this stage of his career to dominate for 25 minutes a game would be interesting. Revisiting a D Murray trade and hoping he can adjust to a bench role is a possibility too. We have an elite starting lineup so adding a top 50-75 player for the bench would be something of an all-in.

4. Lastly, we could target a role player who doesn’t have an elite scoring role but adds to what the team already does. This would be someone like Alex Caruso. Overpaying so the Bulls can’t say no and adding him to the bench would make this team a better version of what they are without risk of disruption and running it back to some degree. The Bulls won’t want to deal him, but outside of an unexpected playoff run, the responsible thing for them to do is to restock with first round picks and add youth to Coby White for whatever the next version of their rebuild is. Caruso would be an amazing fit in both non-Brunson and Brunson lineups and would solidify a historic defensive team.

Totally agree with number 1. Although, think they are really good at finding low cost FA that would fill roles. So if IHart and PA becomes too costly, they may look to spin their magic once again.

No no and no on 2. Kat will be making over 60 mil a year. What has he done for Minnesota that Randle has not done for the Knicks. Thibs and KAT?
Spida is another starphuck and will take most of your draft picks but several of the players who are responsible for all of our current positive vibes. Why not wait a year when he is a FA. Let's learn from our past.

Do you really think DeRozan and Murray want to go to the Knicks to be bench pieces? How do you think that will affect our current chemistry? Murray is allegedly not happy when ball is not in his hands in ATL. Bit he will be okay on the bench?

"Overpaying for Alex Caruso?" I'll let you read that a couple of times and see what that sounds like to you?

Think the FO has shown us what their thought process is in the off season several times.
Bring in solid, under the radar talent at reasonable contracts.
The big splash guy most are thinking, is probably not the guy they are thinking of.
Other than OG, who was also not a fan favorite prior to trade, they have surprised us with guys that most thought would not be game changers. And showed how much more they know.

Yeah I’m not saying all or any of these are the answer. Just giving some possibilities. What I will say about Caruso is, outside of injury, how is OG working out for us? Well Caruso is another version of OG. The Chicago team is terrible defensively without him and great with him. So if we want to continue with our current path and think we are really close, paying a premium for him isn’t the worst thing. I’m not talking a ton of future picks or something. The Derrick white trade to Boston is sort of the comparable idea.

Fan of Caruso. Wanted him when he was a FA.
But just don't think he moves the needle enough to give any considerable assets.
And as you said it yourself, Bulls would want something considerable.
Was never big on giving up anything for a possible injury. No matter how likely it is that OG misses games.
Rather draft a defensive prototype to provide the same type of insurance or pick up another FA value. Like Derick Jones Jr. Is one. Has a 7ft wingspan and can guard multiple spots. Can be had for cheap.

After looking at the Knicks when OG plays, do you really not think Caruso would move the needle even a little bit ? He’s exactly the player that excels here. When the Knicks got hart it raised them a level last year. They trade for OG and same thing. Caruso would be just another version of that. I think we have enough sample size to know that Caruso would make this team better.

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martin wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:

martin wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:Right. Knicks should go all in by spending to keep their role players.

What does this mean to you cause I can't figure it out?

I'm thinking 30 for OG, 14 for IHart, and 8 for Precious. Bring back Ryan Arcidiacono on a vet min contract.

Vet min for Burkes? Not sure what kind of a market he has. He's been the most disappointing player this season. Injuries happen. They suck but nothing you can do. Burkes has just been a huge disappointment. He needs Dr. Evil's time machine to go back and find his mojo.Maybe once Randle comes back, he and Burkes can recapture some of that magic.

Knicks also pick up BB's player option. He's not there yet but BB has kinda sorta been looking like the second shot creator the Knicks need in the non- Brunson minutes to keep the offense afloat. For most of his career about 5O% of his shot attempts were from 3 point land. For April he's been shooting 60% of his shots from 2 point land at 56%. That's been a big help in a lot of games when the Knicks have fallen behind early.

Oh yes, of course. That was my baseline assumption. Bring back those guys. I was talking next step after

Ummm, championship parade down 5the Avenue and clear some space in the rafters to retire some jerseys?