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Panos
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4/10/2024  10:33 AM
There's a thread on Brunson being a 1A, and a thread on D Mitchell (one of a several, i think).
Just for kicks, let's say for whatever reason, management was going to trade Brunson FOR D Mitchell.
Forget for a moment any personal relationships or attachments the team has with JB. Pretend for a minute that it's just business, and this was being negotiated.
We're talking in the 1A thread that JB is top 5 in MVP discussion (this opinion is probably not shared fans of other teams around the league).
So if NYK and Cavs were going to swap JB for DM would it be an even swap?
If not, what would additional compensation needs to be included on which side to even it out for you?
Fully fair to consider contract situations for both players.
JB (+ ??) <--> DM (+ ??)
AUTOADVERT
martin
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4/10/2024  10:39 AM
Ban
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Panos
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4/10/2024  10:43 AM    LAST EDITED: 4/10/2024  10:44 AM
martin wrote:Ban

Ok, so what would Clev need to add to the pot so I don't get banned?
Everyone's got a price.
martin
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4/10/2024  10:54 AM
Panos wrote:
martin wrote:Ban

Ok, so what would Clev need to add to the pot so I don't get banned?
Everyone's got a price.

I'm legit looking at Cleveland's roster and I don't see one guy on there that I would include in a trade (putting salary aside) that I think would significantly upgrade the Knick's roster.

Maybe Mobely would be nice but when you got iHart/Mitch he would be redundant. Same logic for Allen.

Garland too small and redundant IMHO although high talent.

Okoro NOPE. Strus NOPE. LaVert NOPE. Niang NOPE. Wade NOPE.

So picks?

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Panos
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4/10/2024  11:05 AM
martin wrote:
Panos wrote:
martin wrote:Ban

Ok, so what would Clev need to add to the pot so I don't get banned?
Everyone's got a price.

I'm legit looking at Cleveland's roster and I don't see one guy on there that I would include in a trade (putting salary aside) that I think would significantly upgrade the Knick's roster.

Maybe Mobely would be nice but when you got iHart/Mitch he would be redundant. Same logic for Allen.

Garland too small and redundant IMHO although high talent.

Okoro NOPE. Strus NOPE. LaVert NOPE. Niang NOPE. Wade NOPE.

So picks?

Considering they are a top 4/5 team in the East, that's interesting.
So picks? How many?
Rookie
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4/10/2024  11:14 AM
martin wrote:
Panos wrote:
martin wrote:Ban

Ok, so what would Clev need to add to the pot so I don't get banned?
Everyone's got a price.

I'm legit looking at Cleveland's roster and I don't see one guy on there that I would include in a trade (putting salary aside) that I think would significantly upgrade the Knick's roster.

Maybe Mobely would be nice but when you got iHart/Mitch he would be redundant. Same logic for Allen.

Garland too small and redundant IMHO although high talent.

Okoro NOPE. Strus NOPE. LaVert NOPE. Niang NOPE. Wade NOPE.

So picks?

They aint got no picks which is going to hurt starting in 2025 when they are a lottery team. Posted about this after the trade to Cleveland. They are not good enough to win and are going to fall off a cliff in 2025
martin
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4/10/2024  11:17 AM
Panos wrote:
martin wrote:
Panos wrote:
martin wrote:Ban

Ok, so what would Clev need to add to the pot so I don't get banned?
Everyone's got a price.

I'm legit looking at Cleveland's roster and I don't see one guy on there that I would include in a trade (putting salary aside) that I think would significantly upgrade the Knick's roster.

Maybe Mobely would be nice but when you got iHart/Mitch he would be redundant. Same logic for Allen.

Garland too small and redundant IMHO although high talent.

Okoro NOPE. Strus NOPE. LaVert NOPE. Niang NOPE. Wade NOPE.

So picks?

Considering they are a top 4/5 team in the East, that's interesting.
So picks? How many?

At least 3 unprotected and that's not hyperbole. So all of them. Cause of the NY-Villanova connection and fit, etc. and then downside backlash you would get.

Cleveland is a good team. DM is a great player. The cast after DM does not fit anything the Knicks do. I think all of those things can be true.

I mean, I'd want Garland if salary wasn't a thing instead of the picks, but just to move him again.

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EwingsGlass
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4/10/2024  11:21 AM
It’s a fair question and clearly folks can’t put aside emotion. Like asking if you would trade Derek Jeter for Nomar Garciaparra. Stat guys would do it all day. But captain intangible does stuff that doesn’t always show up in the stats.

Now. Before we signed Brunson outright, I thought Mitchell was the better fit. He deserves to be a face of a franchise.

Objectively, Brunson has the better contract and the better track record in the playoffs. Mitchell has the better stat lines over the last 5 years, but that gap is diminishing. I think to finish this analysis, you need to determine Mitchell’s next contract. If it’s 5 years $300mm, I mean, you would need to include the #1 pick in this years draft. If it’s 35 to 40 a year? Might be an even swap, objectively.

But the point is that the trade value is tied to the contract.

This is the Randle.
martin
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4/10/2024  11:44 AM
Rookie wrote:
martin wrote:
Panos wrote:
martin wrote:Ban

Ok, so what would Clev need to add to the pot so I don't get banned?
Everyone's got a price.

I'm legit looking at Cleveland's roster and I don't see one guy on there that I would include in a trade (putting salary aside) that I think would significantly upgrade the Knick's roster.

Maybe Mobely would be nice but when you got iHart/Mitch he would be redundant. Same logic for Allen.

Garland too small and redundant IMHO although high talent.

Okoro NOPE. Strus NOPE. LaVert NOPE. Niang NOPE. Wade NOPE.

So picks?

They aint got no picks which is going to hurt starting in 2025 when they are a lottery team. Posted about this after the trade to Cleveland. They are not good enough to win and are going to fall off a cliff in 2025

Oh for sure, I guess hypothetically speaking that's what I would do

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Moonangie
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4/10/2024  12:01 PM
Flawed hypothetical...this is JB's team now. He's a bona fide MVP. At this point there's no guard I would trade him for besides Luca, and even then it would be iffy.
martin
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4/10/2024  1:39 PM
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Panos
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4/10/2024  1:45 PM    LAST EDITED: 4/10/2024  1:59 PM
Moonangie wrote:Flawed hypothetical...this is JB's team now. He's a bona fide MVP. At this point there's no guard I would trade him for besides Luca, and even then it would be iffy.

It's not a "Flawed" hypothetical, it's just a hypothetical. If you don't "do hypotheticals", that's fine. If, as you say, there is no guard you would trade him for, I'll honor that even if I think that may be a Knick fan bias. But you cannot possibly say that there is no *combination* of players/assets that you would trade him for - that's just homerism.
Martin stated there is no combination of players specifically on the Cavs he would trade him for. That's a fair enough opinion.
But if the above is true, than we're saying that JB is heads and shoulders above DM and there is no existing incentive that the Cavs have that would make it worth swapping them. I don't know if that is objectively true. But ok. I don't know the right answer.

P.S. - he is not a bonafide MVP. He's the best player on the team that is tied for 8th best in the league.
VDesai
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4/10/2024  2:05 PM
With all the Mitchell threads over here I've been thinking about this a lot and right now I'm taking JB. Mitchell is a great, great player, but JB outplayed him even before he was a star in that Dallas vs. Utah series and then came here the year after and outplayed him last year too.

Mitchell has had some top seeded teams and has underperformed expectations in the playoffs consistently.
NYKBocker
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4/10/2024  2:37 PM
It would take at least 4 unprotected first round picks for me. Plus Mobley and Okoro. That might not be enough. Cause you are basically scrapping the team continuity
Nalod
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4/10/2024  4:00 PM
Panos said for Shits and Giggle so lets **** and giggle!
MY logical side of my brain, and the Nalodian Pain in the arse so many are fond of says "Why would Cav's do this?"
becuase DM will leave? So lets assume knicks and JB cannot agree on a number going forward but believe DM is worth it?
And objectivity aside its a fair swap.
Fans won't think so but they are the same age but DM been elite longer.
Playoffs? Jalen played under Doncic and when he was not on the court Jalen produced. Last year we went one more round than DM head to head.
There are 4 others on the court so its not like a tennis match "Head to Head".
Given all the "NovaLove" and seeing this kid rise I don't don't do this trade. Just no need for it. That DM has not succeeded in the playoffs despite often being the best player kind of makes Candace Parkers point?
Oh, I know we talking about Jalen and we still in honeymoon "Pinch myself" that this kid is this good and we got him for a 2nd round pick, but yeah I can see an even swap as equal value on paper. Emotionally nope.

Here is where the rubber meets the road. Sign a guy for max, who is under 6-1 and he is the highest paid on the team. THus one has to assume he is the best on the team. Well then, now we ****ting and giggling the reality that he is the man to lead us to a chip? Im not saying DM is either. So If Clev backs the truck up and pays him, they too are in the same Candace Parker hellhole? "DM has not succeeded in the playoffs!". Point taken. Trae Young? POint taken. CP3 Point taken. When your best player is small?

how to win with JB? Randle has to show up and be the best player in the playoffs. Healthy, he could be.
Lets Shit and Giggle more......What if JB and DM are BOTH the best players on the floor? Hmmm, then its on the others? What if they are on the same team? Whoa, is that a thing.
Panos
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4/10/2024  4:49 PM
So Nalod, in short, you think an even swap is a fair deal?
Nalod
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4/10/2024  9:16 PM
Panos wrote:So Nalod, in short, you think an even swap is a fair deal?

In Short. LOL.
Yeah. Its fair swap. I don't expect Circle Jerking Bing Bongers to agree.
They Giggling anyway.
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