For the second unit, I can picture OG playing some backup 4, alongside Mitch at the 5, hart at the 3, McBride playing backup 2, and a true playmaker who can push the pace and get a guy like Mitch more involved as a finisher. McBride playing alongside Brunson has been really encouraging as well. Deuce has become a breakout player, but mainly operating as a 3&D wing, which is fine as a backup. I can envision us drafting a pure PG like Tyler Kolek and developing him into a Tj McConnell-like PG who plays strictly non-Brunson minutes and pushes the pace for 12-15 mins per game. McBride can play most of the non-DiVincenzo minutes and overlap with Brunson from time to time.

Getting back to Hartenstein, he just fits so well with the slower starting group and his passing in the half court is invaluable. That little floater he does keeps the defense honest as well. We saw the proof in January of this group and I think it’s sustainable. Getting the bench figured out continues to be the challenge, as both Burks and bogy aren’t ideal fits and neither are longterm pieces anyways. I think what we have plus bringing in a backup PG to tie it all together, with Mitch returning off the bench and remaining with that group can be a solution.

1) Mitch could eventually get his starting job back. Problem is Mitch doesn't seem to really love basketball. I'm not saying he doesn't put in the work, just maybe he doesn't care enough to put in the 'extra' work. Just having the confidence to bounce the ball a few times without getting stripped, a little push shot and making a free throw would be huge for him. Him always bringing rebounds down to waist height to go up again and getting stripped gets old.

2) OG can play some 4, but really him and Hart are interchangeable. When they were playing together I couldn't tell who was the 3 and who was the 4.

3) McBride is better when playing with a PG. His game is still developing and getting minutes is huge for him.

4) I think we all need to get over the notion of a 'pure PG'. A PG needs to be able to shoot, spread the floor and score as well as pass.

I agree iHart is better in transition defense against younger faster teams. If we lock up against Orlando in the first round, iHart is the better starter. Mitch is a glacier. Him and 'I don't run' Randle really slow down the offense. I think it really depends on the match ups and situation who starts and who finishes.

Rookie wrote:I agree with most of this.

1) Mitch could eventually get his starting job back. Problem is Mitch doesn't seem to really love basketball. I'm not saying he doesn't put in the work, just maybe he doesn't care enough to put in the 'extra' work. Just having the confidence to bounce the ball a few times without getting stripped, a little push shot and making a free throw would be huge for him. Him always bringing rebounds down to waist height to go up again and getting stripped gets old.

2) OG can play some 4, but really him and Hart are interchangeable. When they were playing together I couldn't tell who was the 3 and who was the 4.

3) McBride is better when playing with a PG. His game is still developing and getting minutes is huge for him.

4) I think we all need to get over the notion of a 'pure PG'. A PG needs to be able to shoot, spread the floor and score as well as pass.

I agree iHart is better in transition defense against younger faster teams. If we lock up against Orlando in the first round, iHart is the better starter. Mitch is a glacier. Him and 'I don't run' Randle really slow down the offense. I think it really depends on the match ups and situation who starts and who finishes.

I have a different perspective on Mitch.

Mitch never had the opportunity to really learn basketball fundamentals as a kid. He got by on raw athleticism and did that all the way to the NBA; he is that much of an athletic freak of nature. He also never had a solid family core around him during his growth years from a basketball perspective; I am reading online and, in part, guessing here. He probably didn't really work out at a professional level his first few off seasons until the Knicks literally sent an assistant to live with him. It was the best decision and investment the Knicks and Mitch could have done to set his trajectory straight.

Mitch totally bought in but is a tad bit behind on the learning curve, especially offensively. I'd guess that they have only concentrated on the defensive side of things cause that's where his strengths and inclinations were most formidable.

Mitch is now a really good professional IMHO. I am deeply reading tea leaves, just my opinion.

Mitch is a hard fit positionally with Randle, RJ, Grimes, Brunson all needing and wanting touches in that starting unit (and IQ too). They were also learning what their roles were. Knicks had ****ty PG's before Brunson got here, that has to play into Mitch's ability to "learn fast" as a Center from an offensive perspective.

Mitch immediately buying into that off-bench role in the media is a boon for everyone. Mitch gets to come back slowly without expectation and - he is right on this one - he will get a lot more opportunity in the second unit from an offensive perspective. It also let's his good buddy Isaiah shine in that role.

Mitch is just starting to learn offense.

Mitch is a louisiana country bumpkin and I love that he has embraced it and shows it regularly.

I just love it. And I love Mitch too.

martin wrote:

Rookie wrote:I agree with most of this.

1) Mitch could eventually get his starting job back. Problem is Mitch doesn't seem to really love basketball. I'm not saying he doesn't put in the work, just maybe he doesn't care enough to put in the 'extra' work. Just having the confidence to bounce the ball a few times without getting stripped, a little push shot and making a free throw would be huge for him. Him always bringing rebounds down to waist height to go up again and getting stripped gets old.

2) OG can play some 4, but really him and Hart are interchangeable. When they were playing together I couldn't tell who was the 3 and who was the 4.

3) McBride is better when playing with a PG. His game is still developing and getting minutes is huge for him.

4) I think we all need to get over the notion of a 'pure PG'. A PG needs to be able to shoot, spread the floor and score as well as pass.

I agree iHart is better in transition defense against younger faster teams. If we lock up against Orlando in the first round, iHart is the better starter. Mitch is a glacier. Him and 'I don't run' Randle really slow down the offense. I think it really depends on the match ups and situation who starts and who finishes.

I have a different perspective on Mitch.

Mitch never had the opportunity to really learn basketball fundamentals as a kid. He got by on raw athleticism and did that all the way to the NBA; he is that much of an athletic freak of nature. He also never had a solid family core around him during his growth years from a basketball perspective; I am reading online and, in part, guessing here. He probably didn't really work out at a professional level his first few off seasons until the Knicks literally sent an assistant to live with him. It was the best decision and investment the Knicks and Mitch could have done to set his trajectory straight.

Mitch totally bought in but is a tad bit behind on the learning curve, especially offensively. I'd guess that they have only concentrated on the defensive side of things cause that's where his strengths and inclinations were most formidable.

Mitch is now a really good professional IMHO. I am deeply reading tea leaves, just my opinion.

Mitch is a hard fit positionally with Randle, RJ, Grimes, Brunson all needing and wanting touches in that starting unit (and IQ too). They were also learning what their roles were. Knicks had ****ty PG's before Brunson got here, that has to play into Mitch's ability to "learn fast" as a Center from an offensive perspective.

Mitch immediately buying into that off-bench role in the media is a boon for everyone. Mitch gets to come back slowly without expectation and - he is right on this one - he will get a lot more opportunity in the second unit from an offensive perspective. It also let's his good buddy Isaiah shine in that role.

Mitch is just starting to learn offense.

Mitch is a louisiana country bumpkin and I love that he has embraced it and shows it regularly.

I just love it. And I love Mitch too.

Good take. And he loves dogs!!

So much has changed with this team. Brunson has emerged, DDV opens up the middle!
I think Grimes started 18 games, Mitch played 21 when he got hurt.
We saw some cool things with mitch before he went down offensively. Maybe as fans we are looking at Mitch whole career vs. this new ball movement this season that is even better with DDV. Remember, Grimes was not shooting much.

I don't disagree with keeping iHart starting. This is how we evolved in Mitch's absence.
Not sure what the deal is next season and beyond. Given the lack of vison it only makes sense to keep both of them. I think both players are best served splitting minutes. Injuries, foul trouble and match ups dictate who gets more on some nights.
At the same time perhaps our FO and coaches have plans we can't fathom.
Me? I roll with iHart and resign him to what ever market value is if we have the room to. I really like Mitch but he is fragile as a starter but his contract is very reasonable which makes him very good trade chip as well.
Here is the reality. Someone mentioned they "feel bad not missing IQ or RJ as much as they thought they would". Why? Because team is doing really well even with all the injuries. We hate to let go of our guys but as long as we in the rise we love the new guy(s) and move on.
Until that happens its "why you hating on XXXX player?"

Obviously we have not seen ally oops to mitch and might have forgotten how good that was.

We also don't see iHart shooting except for the floater. The guy has some mid range.

Sims? I really not seeing any development of great significance. There has been some offensive moves that looked good but he has no feel as to when to apply them. He is very mechanical. In fact, Im not sure he really feels the game properly. Incredible athlete and as a end of bench 3rd stringer at 2mm per he is a good guy to have.

martin wrote:

Rookie wrote:

martin wrote:

Rookie wrote:I agree with most of this.

1) Mitch could eventually get his starting job back. Problem is Mitch doesn't seem to really love basketball. I'm not saying he doesn't put in the work, just maybe he doesn't care enough to put in the 'extra' work. Just having the confidence to bounce the ball a few times without getting stripped, a little push shot and making a free throw would be huge for him. Him always bringing rebounds down to waist height to go up again and getting stripped gets old.

2) OG can play some 4, but really him and Hart are interchangeable. When they were playing together I couldn't tell who was the 3 and who was the 4.

3) McBride is better when playing with a PG. His game is still developing and getting minutes is huge for him.

4) I think we all need to get over the notion of a 'pure PG'. A PG needs to be able to shoot, spread the floor and score as well as pass.

I agree iHart is better in transition defense against younger faster teams. If we lock up against Orlando in the first round, iHart is the better starter. Mitch is a glacier. Him and 'I don't run' Randle really slow down the offense. I think it really depends on the match ups and situation who starts and who finishes.

I have a different perspective on Mitch.

Mitch never had the opportunity to really learn basketball fundamentals as a kid. He got by on raw athleticism and did that all the way to the NBA; he is that much of an athletic freak of nature. He also never had a solid family core around him during his growth years from a basketball perspective; I am reading online and, in part, guessing here. He probably didn't really work out at a professional level his first few off seasons until the Knicks literally sent an assistant to live with him. It was the best decision and investment the Knicks and Mitch could have done to set his trajectory straight.

Mitch totally bought in but is a tad bit behind on the learning curve, especially offensively. I'd guess that they have only concentrated on the defensive side of things cause that's where his strengths and inclinations were most formidable.

Mitch is now a really good professional IMHO. I am deeply reading tea leaves, just my opinion.

Mitch is a hard fit positionally with Randle, RJ, Grimes, Brunson all needing and wanting touches in that starting unit (and IQ too). They were also learning what their roles were. Knicks had ****ty PG's before Brunson got here, that has to play into Mitch's ability to "learn fast" as a Center from an offensive perspective.

Mitch immediately buying into that off-bench role in the media is a boon for everyone. Mitch gets to come back slowly without expectation and - he is right on this one - he will get a lot more opportunity in the second unit from an offensive perspective. It also let's his good buddy Isaiah shine in that role.

Mitch is just starting to learn offense.

Mitch is a louisiana country bumpkin and I love that he has embraced it and shows it regularly.

I just love it. And I love Mitch too.

Good take. And he loves dogs!!

Yessir. And trucks lol

And Boobies!!!

nycericanguy wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

DLeethal wrote:Thibs is already tempering expectations with Mitch saying "he won't be getting extended minutes anytime soon". I think the C position is Isiah's for a long time to come. Odds are probably high that they part ways with Mitch this offseason. I'd love the platoon forever but I just don't see it happening.

I can see the platoon. They are friends and seem to root for each other. Shouldn’t be an either-or thing. The issue is I don’t see us also keeping Achiuwa. It’s most likely we only bring back 2 of the 3 bigs but we will see. A rim runner like mitch and to a lesser extent Achiuwa is more valuable with the second unit than this starting lineup. Hartensteins skillset just works so well, as the numbers and eye test in January showed.

i agree, but man Precious got manhandled last night against Jokic, made him look really small.

I'm not sure Precious is much needed if we have Randle/OG back, let alone Mitch too.

Knicks are probably gonna have to make a choice like you say. I think if Mitch has trade value, he might be the one to go for just that reason. I mean if we can get a future 1st for Mitch its something to consider. Especially if we use DAL's 1st this summer as that would be one less asset for a trade later on.

Achiuwa has been so useful this season, and he fits in this system. The problem is I’m still not sure what his best position is. At the 4 he’s great defensively. He can guard big wings and use his length and quickness. But offensively he’s more of a 5. He can’t stretch the floor enough at the 4. He’s really a rim runner. But defensively he gives up too much size at center. He would have been the perfect PF 20 years ago. But right now he’s a tweener and thibs has found ways to work around that.

martin wrote:

Rookie wrote:

martin wrote:

Rookie wrote:

martin wrote:

Rookie wrote:I agree with most of this.

1) Mitch could eventually get his starting job back. Problem is Mitch doesn't seem to really love basketball. I'm not saying he doesn't put in the work, just maybe he doesn't care enough to put in the 'extra' work. Just having the confidence to bounce the ball a few times without getting stripped, a little push shot and making a free throw would be huge for him. Him always bringing rebounds down to waist height to go up again and getting stripped gets old.

2) OG can play some 4, but really him and Hart are interchangeable. When they were playing together I couldn't tell who was the 3 and who was the 4.

3) McBride is better when playing with a PG. His game is still developing and getting minutes is huge for him.

4) I think we all need to get over the notion of a 'pure PG'. A PG needs to be able to shoot, spread the floor and score as well as pass.

I agree iHart is better in transition defense against younger faster teams. If we lock up against Orlando in the first round, iHart is the better starter. Mitch is a glacier. Him and 'I don't run' Randle really slow down the offense. I think it really depends on the match ups and situation who starts and who finishes.

I have a different perspective on Mitch.

Mitch never had the opportunity to really learn basketball fundamentals as a kid. He got by on raw athleticism and did that all the way to the NBA; he is that much of an athletic freak of nature. He also never had a solid family core around him during his growth years from a basketball perspective; I am reading online and, in part, guessing here. He probably didn't really work out at a professional level his first few off seasons until the Knicks literally sent an assistant to live with him. It was the best decision and investment the Knicks and Mitch could have done to set his trajectory straight.

Mitch totally bought in but is a tad bit behind on the learning curve, especially offensively. I'd guess that they have only concentrated on the defensive side of things cause that's where his strengths and inclinations were most formidable.

Mitch is now a really good professional IMHO. I am deeply reading tea leaves, just my opinion.

Mitch is a hard fit positionally with Randle, RJ, Grimes, Brunson all needing and wanting touches in that starting unit (and IQ too). They were also learning what their roles were. Knicks had ****ty PG's before Brunson got here, that has to play into Mitch's ability to "learn fast" as a Center from an offensive perspective.

Mitch immediately buying into that off-bench role in the media is a boon for everyone. Mitch gets to come back slowly without expectation and - he is right on this one - he will get a lot more opportunity in the second unit from an offensive perspective. It also let's his good buddy Isaiah shine in that role.

Mitch is just starting to learn offense.

Mitch is a louisiana country bumpkin and I love that he has embraced it and shows it regularly.

I just love it. And I love Mitch too.

Good take. And he loves dogs!!

Yessir. And trucks lol

And Boobies!!!

Yo boobies are for all of us to love

God's masterpiece.

DLeethal wrote:Thibs is already tempering expectations with Mitch saying "he won't be getting extended minutes anytime soon". I think the C position is Isiah's for a long time to come. Odds are probably high that they part ways with Mitch this offseason. I'd love the platoon forever but I just don't see it happening.

I ready to see if this group can make a title run. Brunson/Randle/OG + rim protection plus star role players like Josh/DD

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