DLeethal wrote:

martin wrote:The opportunity was right there for Grimes, he was not ready for it yet

DDV averaging 28 minutes a game

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Yea DDV pretty much poured water on the narrative that Thibs' offense was holding back Grimes and then the McBridge surge has officially stomped it into an oblivion.

How did Grimes play without Randle and why do late March and April games against clear tankers mean something now but not then?

DLeethal wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:

DLeethal wrote:

martin wrote:The opportunity was right there for Grimes, he was not ready for it yet

DDV averaging 28 minutes a game

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Yea DDV pretty much poured water on the narrative that Thibs' offense was holding back Grimes and then the McBridge surge has officially stomped it into an oblivion.

I think this is a bit unfair to say.

You're comparing Grimes to NBA vet who has learned how to maneuver around certain situations (playing with ball dominate players) and coaches, and McBride who was given a major opportunity with all the injuries the team as suffered this season.

Not really, I'm comparing guys whose bread and butter in this league is/will be quick release shooting. Grimes got the same opportunity Deuce did, he was showered with starters minutes for like two full seasons.

you are making stuff up. Grimes played in 46 games his rookie year and averaged 17 mins a game. he averaged 29 mins a game in year two over 71 games. He then played 45 games for us and averaged 20 minutes before being dealt. He had one season where he didn't play much, one successful season where he played starting minutes and a less successful half-season where he was a rotation regular getting good but not starting minutes. I love Deuce. maybe he is better but you are building a narrative based on false statements

nycericanguy wrote:Grimes got more MPG and starts last year then IQ ever did in NY, or DDV ever has in his career.

he might figure it out eventually, but he was very tentative and just rushed everything. He couldn't read a defense.

I always called BS on him not getting shots b/c "thibs" or because of the starters he played with, I saw him get plenty of OPS and just pass them down or panic.

he was good last year. Not as good as DDV this year but he had a good year on both sides of the ball. If you are going to deny that you are married to narratives. DDV has outperformed what I thought he was capable of but even playing at a super high level he wasn't getting that many looks until there was a usage void that needed filling. Grimes also got up a lot more shots when usage needed filling

EwingPSD wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:Grimes got more MPG and starts last year then IQ ever did in NY, or DDV ever has in his career.

he might figure it out eventually, but he was very tentative and just rushed everything. He couldn't read a defense.

I always called BS on him not getting shots b/c "thibs" or because of the starters he played with, I saw him get plenty of OPS and just pass them down or panic.

You two are great at moving goalposts. He did not get starter's minutes for 2 seasons.

didnt say he did, I said last season.

and yes he played well last season, but he had OPS to do much more.

whats the goalpost move? I liked Grimes, thought he had a chance to be real good, didn't want to trade him, certainly not for Fournier 2.0.

but the idea that Thibs or the other starters held him back was just... not true. Same was said about Thibs holding back IQ (even though he flourished here) Obi, CAM... i mean that narrative was used on just about every player we had here.

EwingPSD wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:Grimes got more MPG and starts last year then IQ ever did in NY, or DDV ever has in his career.

he might figure it out eventually, but he was very tentative and just rushed everything. He couldn't read a defense.

I always called BS on him not getting shots b/c "thibs" or because of the starters he played with, I saw him get plenty of OPS and just pass them down or panic.

You two are great at moving goalposts. He did not get starter's minutes for 2 seasons.

What do you consider starters minutes for a role player starter? I think 25-30mpg is starters minutes for Grimes when he was starting or for DDV now in his role. That's exactly where those guys should be, Grimes got a huge opportunity here as primary starter here for a full season and was gifted the role again the following season until he got thoroughly outplayed, but over the course of two seasons here he had every opportunity to thrive.

DLeethal wrote:I will rephrase to "Grimes was showered with starters minutes for 1.25 seasons, high end bench player mins for .5 seasons, and low end bench players mins for .25 seasons".

He wasn't "showered". He earned minutes by playing well and then had his minutes reduced when he didn't play as well. Try again.

joec32033 wrote:

EwingPSD wrote:

DLeethal wrote:

EwingPSD wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:Grimes got more MPG and starts last year then IQ ever did in NY, or DDV ever has in his career.

he might figure it out eventually, but he was very tentative and just rushed everything. He couldn't read a defense.

I always called BS on him not getting shots b/c "thibs" or because of the starters he played with, I saw him get plenty of OPS and just pass them down or panic.

You two are great at moving goalposts. He did not get starter's minutes for 2 seasons.

What do you consider starters minutes for a role player starter? I think 25-30mpg is starters minutes for Grimes when he was starting or for DDV now in his role. That's exactly where those guys should be, Grimes got a huge opportunity here as primary starter here for a full season and was gifted the role again the following season until he got thoroughly outplayed, but over the course of two seasons here he had every opportunity to thrive.

I think the standard is around 28. Grimes got that for one season. You said he was showered starter's minutes for 2 full seasons. It wasn't 2 seasons. He also wasn't showered minutes like a prize lottery pick or big-name free agent signing who gets played despite performing poorly. He played well in limited minutes and was then rewarded with a bigger role. He played well in that role for a full season. He was team's starting 2 guard entering this season b/c he played well as the team's starting two guard last season. He was not "gifted". He was outplayed this year and was quickly demoted. He was a main rotation piece for about 1.5 seasons and thrived more often than not during that period. Grimes had a rough patch this year but was a good Knick.

What exactly do you consider thrived? I will be out front I always thought Grimes was decent level 3&D player. Versatile and maybe high level defender.

I never though he "thrived" except for one play against Miami. Other than that he performed passibly in his role. Then he didn't, complained, and someone else performed 1000x better.

In this case, I consider defending the opposing team's best player every night and doing so at a high level, while having a 47/39 shooting split with solid connective play on offense as thriving. At a minimum, he looked like Courtney Lee in year two. I think that is a good basketball player,a very good result for a late 1st round pick playing an NBA role for the first time, and should be considered thriving.

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