DLeethal wrote:There are certain realities when you have your heavy hitters miss months of action. One of those is you might not get optimal seeding. First round will be a dog fight no matter where we land, the seeding is largely a mirage.

Seeding is a total crap shoot. Stay out of the play-n and let the chips fall where they may

Since Feb 3, the team is 3-8, probably get spanked by the Cavs, so 3-9, so that is winning 25% of games. That is Charlotte Hornet level play. Even injured, this team is better than that. Waiting for the calvary to arrive the past month and probably 2 more weeks, without making adjustments to win now, is loser ball, not smart coaching. With the trade deadline additions, this team should still be closer to 40-45% win rate.

Someone else said Thibs wants players to settle into their roles until stars return, again loser ball. You play and adjust with what you have to win now. Not lose a lot of ground, then hope for that 4 game weak opponent stretch to boost the team record. What will winning those 4 weaker games really mean when the teams in front of us win 3 or 4 games too? Miami is going to pass us, Cav have cooled a bit, but still 60% win rate. Bucks have won 4 in a row. Philly without their top star are playing just as poorly as us but we have our top star. Magic & Pacers are hot and always give us problems with their pace.

In a season where for a moment the 2 seed seemed possible, more realistically, 3rd or 4th to me, this team is now looking like a 6th or 7th seed come playoff time. And that is if we don't get bad news on one or more injured Knicks. Bye bye home court advantage round 1. This isn't good and I'm pissed with Thibs stubbornness and excuses. Do better, now!

DLeethal wrote:This is a below .500 team without OG and Randle and Mitch. We sustained some good play off our positive momentum when those guys first went down for a few games. Eventually the magic of the 14-2 run wore off and they are playing like they should with DDV as your #2 scorer and Josh Hart playing 40+ mins a game.

90% of the teams in the league if you removed their #2 and #3 players and starting C would become a below .500 team. We are no different.

Rookie wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:

DLeethal wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:

VDesai wrote:Knicks offensive possessions are a joke

Agree on this - basically Brunson gets over 1/2 court ——- gets trapped and retreats to 1.2 court line pounding ball……eventually swings ball to,open Hart 30 feet out who dribbles into hand-off for Donte off balance 3 from 25 feet with 1 second in the clock.

Exaggerated- sure but still a mess.

The Knicks offense was phenomenal when our guys were healthy. Of course this current teams offense is gonna suck. We are missing our #2 and #3 scorers.

It’s the lack of flow and penetration attempts - we all get that we are missing some talent but even at full strength we are an extreme iso heavy team.

Hopefully we can get back to the look we had post OG trade but this type of stuff is fickle and not guaranteed to instantly return to that chemistry.

Try watching Toronto. The ball movement and spacing are excellent. Missing talent hasn't caused their offensive game plan to break down at all. For whatever reason, Brunson looks like he is trying to do it all himself. Someone asked somewhere else what RJ's numbers are looking great again. You just don't see him going 1 on 5 in Toronto. They are running all kinds of motions to free players up. I just don't think 'next man up' works with us because we don't really have a team offensive game plan. It looks like it is just individual 'smart' players reading the game and freelancing.

You can win with talent, but when your talent is all on the bench it gets ugly. We are playing ugly basketball. We can't get stops and every offensive possession is a rock fight. If we had a 'system' to fall back on and discipline to stick with it we'd be better at the plug and play thing. Right now, all we can do is hope we can hang around the play in 7-8th seed until we get or starters back. We are 1 loss from the 7th seed. That loss is likely coming on Sunday. 3 of our next 4 games after that are against teams that are 1 game behind us in the standings.

It's going to get uglier before it gets any better. I'd expect Thibs to run the players he trusts into the ground over this stretch. It's the time of the year where everyone is looking at the standings and positioning themselves for the playoff run.

NYStateOfMind wrote:Agreed, good take.

Rookie wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:

DLeethal wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:

VDesai wrote:Knicks offensive possessions are a joke

Agree on this - basically Brunson gets over 1/2 court ——- gets trapped and retreats to 1.2 court line pounding ball……eventually swings ball to,open Hart 30 feet out who dribbles into hand-off for Donte off balance 3 from 25 feet with 1 second in the clock.

Exaggerated- sure but still a mess.

The Knicks offense was phenomenal when our guys were healthy. Of course this current teams offense is gonna suck. We are missing our #2 and #3 scorers.

It’s the lack of flow and penetration attempts - we all get that we are missing some talent but even at full strength we are an extreme iso heavy team.

Hopefully we can get back to the look we had post OG trade but this type of stuff is fickle and not guaranteed to instantly return to that chemistry.

Try watching Toronto. The ball movement and spacing are excellent. Missing talent hasn't caused their offensive game plan to break down at all. For whatever reason, Brunson looks like he is trying to do it all himself. Someone asked somewhere else what RJ's numbers are looking great again. You just don't see him going 1 on 5 in Toronto. They are running all kinds of motions to free players up. I just don't think 'next man up' works with us because we don't really have a team offensive game plan. It looks like it is just individual 'smart' players reading the game and freelancing.

You can win with talent, but when your talent is all on the bench it gets ugly. We are playing ugly basketball. We can't get stops and every offensive possession is a rock fight. If we had a 'system' to fall back on and discipline to stick with it we'd be better at the plug and play thing. Right now, all we can do is hope we can hang around the play in 7-8th seed until we get or starters back. We are 1 loss from the 7th seed. That loss is likely coming on Sunday. 3 of our next 4 games after that are against teams that are 1 game behind us in the standings.

It's going to get uglier before it gets any better. I'd expect Thibs to run the players he trusts into the ground over this stretch. It's the time of the year where everyone is looking at the standings and positioning themselves for the playoff run.

Yep, we should be much more like Toronto and their bottom 10 offense. Thibs slander is beyond ridiculous at this point.

EwingPSD wrote:

Rookie wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:

DLeethal wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:

VDesai wrote:Knicks offensive possessions are a joke

Agree on this - basically Brunson gets over 1/2 court ——- gets trapped and retreats to 1.2 court line pounding ball……eventually swings ball to,open Hart 30 feet out who dribbles into hand-off for Donte off balance 3 from 25 feet with 1 second in the clock.

Exaggerated- sure but still a mess.

The Knicks offense was phenomenal when our guys were healthy. Of course this current teams offense is gonna suck. We are missing our #2 and #3 scorers.

It’s the lack of flow and penetration attempts - we all get that we are missing some talent but even at full strength we are an extreme iso heavy team.

Hopefully we can get back to the look we had post OG trade but this type of stuff is fickle and not guaranteed to instantly return to that chemistry.

Try watching Toronto. The ball movement and spacing are excellent. Missing talent hasn't caused their offensive game plan to break down at all. For whatever reason, Brunson looks like he is trying to do it all himself. Someone asked somewhere else what RJ's numbers are looking great again. You just don't see him going 1 on 5 in Toronto. They are running all kinds of motions to free players up. I just don't think 'next man up' works with us because we don't really have a team offensive game plan. It looks like it is just individual 'smart' players reading the game and freelancing.

You can win with talent, but when your talent is all on the bench it gets ugly. We are playing ugly basketball. We can't get stops and every offensive possession is a rock fight. If we had a 'system' to fall back on and discipline to stick with it we'd be better at the plug and play thing. Right now, all we can do is hope we can hang around the play in 7-8th seed until we get or starters back. We are 1 loss from the 7th seed. That loss is likely coming on Sunday. 3 of our next 4 games after that are against teams that are 1 game behind us in the standings.

It's going to get uglier before it gets any better. I'd expect Thibs to run the players he trusts into the ground over this stretch. It's the time of the year where everyone is looking at the standings and positioning themselves for the playoff run.

I have been critical of how they hold the ball and rely on team's hard doubling etc. but I can't agree with how you are saying look at the Raptors they have similar talent and the ball moves more. Even if you don't think the talent is very good it is very different. 4 out of 5 starters on the Raptors can dribble, shoot 3s, and play make at least a little in PnR. You don't need great talent to share the ball more but you do need dependable passers, some shooting, and ball handling. Q, Barrett, GT, and SB just have more on ball skill then our current rotations.

Yea all 4 guys would be the second best offensive player in this current rotation of ours.

Thibs doesn't have this team or what remains of it ready to start either half. None of this is slander, mostly proven facts with some opinion added for others contexts. Having high IQ players without an o scheme isn't enough, but when healthy, it still looks pretty. We have an D identity, establish an O one too, then plug and play works better when injuries happen. Lets say JR, Mitch, & OG return, added to a hobbled, tired, and battered JB, iHart, & Hart, how long will that hold out in the playoffs? Donte and Precious have never played these minutes. This isn't a plan for long-term success, which is typical Thibs, not slander.

DLeethal wrote:

NYStateOfMind wrote:Agreed, good take.

Rookie wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:

DLeethal wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:

VDesai wrote:Knicks offensive possessions are a joke

Agree on this - basically Brunson gets over 1/2 court ——- gets trapped and retreats to 1.2 court line pounding ball……eventually swings ball to,open Hart 30 feet out who dribbles into hand-off for Donte off balance 3 from 25 feet with 1 second in the clock.

Exaggerated- sure but still a mess.

The Knicks offense was phenomenal when our guys were healthy. Of course this current teams offense is gonna suck. We are missing our #2 and #3 scorers.

It’s the lack of flow and penetration attempts - we all get that we are missing some talent but even at full strength we are an extreme iso heavy team.

Hopefully we can get back to the look we had post OG trade but this type of stuff is fickle and not guaranteed to instantly return to that chemistry.

Try watching Toronto. The ball movement and spacing are excellent. Missing talent hasn't caused their offensive game plan to break down at all. For whatever reason, Brunson looks like he is trying to do it all himself. Someone asked somewhere else what RJ's numbers are looking great again. You just don't see him going 1 on 5 in Toronto. They are running all kinds of motions to free players up. I just don't think 'next man up' works with us because we don't really have a team offensive game plan. It looks like it is just individual 'smart' players reading the game and freelancing.

You can win with talent, but when your talent is all on the bench it gets ugly. We are playing ugly basketball. We can't get stops and every offensive possession is a rock fight. If we had a 'system' to fall back on and discipline to stick with it we'd be better at the plug and play thing. Right now, all we can do is hope we can hang around the play in 7-8th seed until we get or starters back. We are 1 loss from the 7th seed. That loss is likely coming on Sunday. 3 of our next 4 games after that are against teams that are 1 game behind us in the standings.

It's going to get uglier before it gets any better. I'd expect Thibs to run the players he trusts into the ground over this stretch. It's the time of the year where everyone is looking at the standings and positioning themselves for the playoff run.

Yep, we should be much more like Toronto and their bottom 10 offense. Thibs slander is beyond ridiculous at this point.

This is now a playoff team that needs the starters healthy. When they not healthy, we are below average.

I’m ok with the trade because we not winning a chip this year regardless and this trade sets us up for the playoffs (when healthy) and in the future. So we good. Just have to be realistic where we are now. Makes loses like this less painful.

Hold your heads up!

Nalod wrote:Pages and pages and not a single word about the HOF guys that plays for Warriors(4 of them) their HOF coach, their young players and they are ALL healthy.
That GSW team is a better roster and executed very well than the one we put on the floor.
Knicks were defeated by a talented team that executed better than we did.
Some of you rarely post on wins but love to go off on losses.
Thibs plays the guys he thinks can execute. If they don't, they don't. Then we lose.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://www.twitter.com/NewYorkRevival/status/1763541037841051737

NYStateOfMind wrote:The truth is not slander. Thibs has coached poorly, he makes poor choices, has no real o schemes, relies on defense and fit athletes to cover he deficiencies even in overextended minutes, but over using those remaining higher IQ tough players has lead to JB & iHart playing hurt out of a now necessity, and if he isn't careful, putting Hart in the same boat. Hart missed late FTs the other night because he was gassed. There is no plan on offense, give it to JB or pass the ball around run the clock, then let Hart or Precious take an outside shot, that isn't their game nor winning basketball. Thibs would be better changing to PnR with kickouts to Donte as an offensive plan, than this mess. Teams want Precious, Hart, and a tired DDV shooting perimeter shots. Brunson's #pt game is off. Ihart isn't the same right now, Hart energy isn't enough.

Thibs doesn't have this team or what remains of it ready to start either half. None of this is slander, mostly proven facts with some opinion added for others contexts. Having high IQ players without an o scheme isn't enough, but when healthy, it still looks pretty. We have an D identity, establish an O one too, then plug and play works better when injuries happen. Lets say JR, Mitch, & OG return, added to a hobbled, tired, and battered JB, iHart, & Hart, how long will that hold out in the playoffs? Donte and Precious have never played these minutes. This isn't a plan for long-term success, which is typical Thibs, not slander.

DLeethal wrote:

NYStateOfMind wrote:Agreed, good take.

Rookie wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:

DLeethal wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:

VDesai wrote:Knicks offensive possessions are a joke

Agree on this - basically Brunson gets over 1/2 court ——- gets trapped and retreats to 1.2 court line pounding ball……eventually swings ball to,open Hart 30 feet out who dribbles into hand-off for Donte off balance 3 from 25 feet with 1 second in the clock.

Exaggerated- sure but still a mess.

The Knicks offense was phenomenal when our guys were healthy. Of course this current teams offense is gonna suck. We are missing our #2 and #3 scorers.

It’s the lack of flow and penetration attempts - we all get that we are missing some talent but even at full strength we are an extreme iso heavy team.

Hopefully we can get back to the look we had post OG trade but this type of stuff is fickle and not guaranteed to instantly return to that chemistry.

Try watching Toronto. The ball movement and spacing are excellent. Missing talent hasn't caused their offensive game plan to break down at all. For whatever reason, Brunson looks like he is trying to do it all himself. Someone asked somewhere else what RJ's numbers are looking great again. You just don't see him going 1 on 5 in Toronto. They are running all kinds of motions to free players up. I just don't think 'next man up' works with us because we don't really have a team offensive game plan. It looks like it is just individual 'smart' players reading the game and freelancing.

You can win with talent, but when your talent is all on the bench it gets ugly. We are playing ugly basketball. We can't get stops and every offensive possession is a rock fight. If we had a 'system' to fall back on and discipline to stick with it we'd be better at the plug and play thing. Right now, all we can do is hope we can hang around the play in 7-8th seed until we get or starters back. We are 1 loss from the 7th seed. That loss is likely coming on Sunday. 3 of our next 4 games after that are against teams that are 1 game behind us in the standings.

It's going to get uglier before it gets any better. I'd expect Thibs to run the players he trusts into the ground over this stretch. It's the time of the year where everyone is looking at the standings and positioning themselves for the playoff run.

Yep, we should be much more like Toronto and their bottom 10 offense. Thibs slander is beyond ridiculous at this point.

Thibs has been a top 5 coach since he's been there. Facts bear that out. All teams go through losing streaks. Miami lost like 7 in a row with the best coach in the league. Dumping on Thibs now while his team is ravaged with injuries is lame. We were a top 5 offense and top 5 defense when the team was at 95% health.

GustavBahler wrote:

Rookie wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Rookie wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Rookie wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Burks and Bogs both shot 40 percent plus from 3 in Detroit. Stands to reason that once the starters get back, and they settle into their bench roles, that they will contribute more.

Makes no sense to complain about their performance this early, under these conditions. The best 2nd unit playmaker is Josh Hart.

Burks just played 11 min and Bogs 18 min, both with the bench. What game did you just watch? Neither one of them had any impact in their bench roles.

I watched a game with no playmaker in the second unit to get them easy looks. Whats your theory as to why their numbers have dropped? They're both very good shooters careerwise Got to be a better explanation than they just suck.

Look at Bogs numbers before tonight. They were damned good. Patience!

I couldn't tell you. I have never watched Detroit play. I do see one stat you left out though. What did they have, ?8 wins? before the trade.

Its a very young, inexperienced, team. Cade Cunningham has been top 3 in turnovers since drafted. But they still shot 40 percent. On TNT they said the young players credited Burks for keeping their heads up through all the losing.

The goal should be to get the starters back. Burks and Bogs figure out their roles with all the injured players returning. They have to get used to their tendencies.

Chemistry is why the starting unit was playing so well, post-OG trade, and chemistry is what will get the second unit humming. Mitch will be getting us more second and third chance scoring opportunities. Randle will get the defense paying less attention to Burks and/or Bogs, when they play together.

OG is going to get the ball movement back to where it was, which means better looks. I thought the ball movement would improve after the trade, but not this much with OG on the court.

Maybe they are just a bad fit? OG was able to plug and play because he fits this team and compliments the rest of the starters. Grimes was another complimentary player. He did the dirty work and could be streaky and make some shots. He seemed to heat up in the 4th Q. Burks and Bogs, eh...sure. I hope they figure it out. They aren't going to all of a sudden start playing defense. Sometimes shooters make shots and sometimes they don't. Defensive minded players always bring it. This was a bad trade.

1) trading productive youth for vets on the wrong side of 30
2) trading for one dimensional players who are a liability on defense

Definitely a trade off when giving up young players for vets pushing 30. With Grimes, I'm guessing the FO is in win now mode, and Grimes isnt on that timetable. In spite of their liabilities, Burks and Bogs have shown they can contribute to a deep playoff run. Grimes hasnt. His game isnt there yet, wont be for another season or two, if it does happen.

You're right about their defense. Mitch or iHart in the second unit with less of a load to carry. Josh back to the bench, the defense will pick up. I'm not concerned about how they're playing with the rotation out of whack. Its about Bogs and Burks figuring things out on offense, going into the playoffs. I like our chances if they're chipping in when it really matters.

I have to tell you, I think it may just be as simple as DDV is playing really well and with a contact that is to delight for. Grimes just happen to be gravvy that was moved for pieces that had different value.