martin wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

martin wrote:Philly tanked forever. They haven't made it past the second round. https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/PHI/

They own their pick this year and then owe a pick to OKC. I can't even tell which future first round pick they have. https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/future_drafts/team

They are left with a broke Embiid, Maxey, and cap space. https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/PHI.html

Road very well traveled.

One teams failure may just be a failure to commit. They absolutely gave up on the process perhaps prematurely. They also made some bad decisions in the process.

I don’t know what you want to call OKCs approach to the rebuild, but they took their lumps. Swallowed other teams contracts and now have a top 5 player, a stash of developing young players, the most draft picks and plenty of cap space. If there was a model for how to run an NBA franchise from losing all of its franchise players to trade demands to building it up again in under 10 years… it OKC.

Knicks just built theirs in the same timeframe. While focusing on winning instead of losing.

They may also have a top 5 player as well as 2 all-defensive players, and 1 2-time all nba player on their team.

Knicks will most likely have a total of 3 playoff appearances and 1 second round appearance to their tally by this offseason while OKC is working on their first.

They seem to be a model of some sort.

Philly failed hard

Five years ago the Ron Baker/Trey Burke led Knicks team (many other nostalgic names on the roster) coached by the one and only David Fizdale, finished the 2018 - 2019 season at 17 - 65. That led to the lottery pick of RJ Barrett. Anyway, maybe not the greatest rebuild of all time, but Leon coming in the following year has led to the best Knicks days in 25 years.

martin wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

martin wrote:Philly tanked forever. They haven't made it past the second round. https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/PHI/

They own their pick this year and then owe a pick to OKC. I can't even tell which future first round pick they have. https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/future_drafts/team

They are left with a broke Embiid, Maxey, and cap space. https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/PHI.html

Road very well traveled.

One teams failure may just be a failure to commit. They absolutely gave up on the process perhaps prematurely. They also made some bad decisions in the process.

I don’t know what you want to call OKCs approach to the rebuild, but they took their lumps. Swallowed other teams contracts and now have a top 5 player, a stash of developing young players, the most draft picks and plenty of cap space. If there was a model for how to run an NBA franchise from losing all of its franchise players to trade demands to building it up again in under 10 years… it OKC.

Knicks just built theirs in the same timeframe. While focusing on winning instead of losing.

They may also have a top 5 player as well as 2 all-defensive players, and 1 2-time all nba player on their team.

Knicks will most likely have a total of 3 playoff appearances and 1 second round appearance to their tally by this offseason while OKC is working on their first.

They seem to be a model of some sort.

Philly failed hard

Not sure I agree that what we did so far is better than what Philly has done, so far. We have two playoff appearances in the last decade and a presumptive appearance this year. Philly's lack of success is pretty well correlated to Joel Embiid's health. I mean, they lost Jimmy Butler for next to nothing and Harden for next to nothing and are still competitive. In a pure economic sense, I think the "Process" is a sound business model for accumulating assets. What you do with those assets, how you develop them and how you around those assets is clearly relevant. It might be more of a criticism of Doc Rivers than an indictment of the system of what he hasn't been able to accomplish with PILES of talent since the glory days of the Boston championships.

I think you have to address OKC's rebuild as another instance of the "Process" and how Scott Brooks is managing it.

In terms of Knicks, I don't think you can overlook the stream of Lotto picks that never "superstarred" and say our model was "better". Or that we focused on winning. We lacked identity for a decade. For my anti-Thibs arguments in years past, he established identity. He focused on winning. Even where I might have tanked further. Lotto balls bounced poorly for us, but we also didn't do much with what we had for a long time.

I am happier to be us right now than Philly, but ask me again after the offseason. I think we will be making some changes this summer.

EwingsGlass wrote:

martin wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

martin wrote:Philly tanked forever. They haven't made it past the second round. https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/PHI/

They own their pick this year and then owe a pick to OKC. I can't even tell which future first round pick they have. https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/future_drafts/team

They are left with a broke Embiid, Maxey, and cap space. https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/PHI.html

Road very well traveled.

One teams failure may just be a failure to commit. They absolutely gave up on the process perhaps prematurely. They also made some bad decisions in the process.

I don’t know what you want to call OKCs approach to the rebuild, but they took their lumps. Swallowed other teams contracts and now have a top 5 player, a stash of developing young players, the most draft picks and plenty of cap space. If there was a model for how to run an NBA franchise from losing all of its franchise players to trade demands to building it up again in under 10 years… it OKC.

Knicks just built theirs in the same timeframe. While focusing on winning instead of losing.

They may also have a top 5 player as well as 2 all-defensive players, and 1 2-time all nba player on their team.

Knicks will most likely have a total of 3 playoff appearances and 1 second round appearance to their tally by this offseason while OKC is working on their first.

They seem to be a model of some sort.

Philly failed hard

Not sure I agree that what we did so far is better than what Philly has done, so far. We have two playoff appearances in the last decade and a presumptive appearance this year. Philly's lack of success is pretty well correlated to Joel Embiid's health. I mean, they lost Jimmy Butler for next to nothing and Harden for next to nothing and are still competitive. In a pure economic sense, I think the "Process" is a sound business model for accumulating assets. What you do with those assets, how you develop them and how you around those assets is clearly relevant. It might be more of a criticism of Doc Rivers than an indictment of the system of what he hasn't been able to accomplish with PILES of talent since the glory days of the Boston championships.

I think you have to address OKC's rebuild as another instance of the "Process" and how Scott Brooks is managing it.

In terms of Knicks, I don't think you can overlook the stream of Lotto picks that never "superstarred" and say our model was "better". Or that we focused on winning. We lacked identity for a decade. For my anti-Thibs arguments in years past, he established identity. He focused on winning. Even where I might have tanked further. Lotto balls bounced poorly for us, but we also didn't do much with what we had for a long time.

I am happier to be us right now than Philly, but ask me again after the offseason. I think we will be making some changes this summer.

Bottom line is Philly contended and had the personal and some very good regular season successes. “The shot” by Kawai and some wear down of Embiid. Simmons was an allster but perhaps above all they were obviously missing something.
Ownership got tired of Brett Brown, and eventually Rivers. Sometimes things succeed or fail at the top. Obviously we can look back and see what happened but bottom line is there were better teams out there or healthier ones when it mattered. Like Us in the 90’s. Also Indy in the 90’s. The JailBlazers were a hell of team as was Sonics and Utah who all fell to better teams. Lakers and Spurs ****blocked a good Suns team that could not break through.

Might happen to us, Knicks might contend and yet circumstances happen.