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OT: Trump Fined 350 million for Fraud
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DLeethal
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2/19/2024  1:32 PM
This was a lot of fun. I will bow out now and allow you all to continue to enjoy your echo chamber. See you on the Knicks side.
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DLeethal
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2/19/2024  1:34 PM
martin wrote:DLeethal “yawns” are getting behind and supporting someone who is a rapist and has a ****ing boatload of classified pics of sloppily stored notational secrets in his bathroom all the while getting indicted substantially for lots and lots of crimes.

I cannot respect you as a person. At all.

Biden was accused of rape and willfully stored "boatloads" of national secrets in his garage while his drug addicted son paraded in and out whilst doing business with Ukraine and China. Where exactly is your line drawn?

martin
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2/19/2024  1:42 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/19/2024  1:43 PM
DLeethal wrote:
martin wrote:DLeethal “yawns” are getting behind and supporting someone who is a rapist and has a ****ing boatload of classified pics of sloppily stored notational secrets in his bathroom all the while getting indicted substantially for lots and lots of crimes.

I cannot respect you as a person. At all.

Biden was accused of rape and willfully stored "boatloads" of national secrets in his garage while his drug addicted son paraded in and out whilst doing business with Ukraine and China. Where exactly is your line drawn?

Do you know that the person who accused Biden of rape now lives in Russia? Those accusations also came up prior to the 2020 election while Trump was president and he ran the DOJ. Why do you think those charges weren't pursued by the DOJ while Trump was in office? And why do you think the person who accused Biden now lives in Russia?

Is anyone who is accused of something automatically guilty? Cause you seem to suggest that. Is that the way it works?

Regan, Biden, Trump all had classified material in their possessions post presidency. After you did your research, what were the differences between those 3 instances of having classified material in their possessions?

You do understand there is a distinction, right? You aren't ignorant of those things, right?

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blkexec
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2/19/2024  2:21 PM
Martin, I see why you rather keep this as a Knick forum site. BUT….

Sometimes it helps us knick fans to see people in a different light.

“Consciousness Stupidity and Sincere Ignorance”

How about JB choking on is last 3 shots in the 3 pt contest? All he needed was to hit 1.

How about Dame Time almost doing the same thing and luckily hit his last 3. Guess that’s the true definition of Dame Time.

What about Halliburton hitting the 3 to reach 200 points for the first time in nba history.

That all star game was a joke. They could’ve had a layup line which would’ve been more entertaining. Something needs to change. Not sure what.

Born in Brooklyn, Raised in Queens, Lives in Maryland. The future is bright, I'm a Knicks fan for life!
newyorknewyork
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2/19/2024  2:31 PM
DLeethal wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:Wow DLeethal! You are incredibly misinformed sheesh. Actually I don't know if we can chalk this up to misinformed anymore at this stage. Most likely willful ignorance.

34 people were indicted from the Mueller investigation.
The Special Counsel indicted 34 people—seven U.S. nationals, 26 Russian nationals, and one Dutch national—and three Russian organizations. Two additional individuals were charged as a result of referrals to other FBI offices.[

It was proven that Russia interfered with the election. The investigation into Trump was to see if he was involved or not. They did not find enough concrete evidence to say if Trump was or was not involved within the investigation. But the overall investigation got 34 people indicted.

For you to say it was a made up Russian story only shows that you have been successfully manipulated again probably willfully.

Trump was ordered to pay E.Jean Carroll $5mil because he was FOUND GUILTY OF SEXUAL ASSAULT in the court of law. The fact that him being guilty of sexual assault and you choosing to side with him still. Just shows a lack of morals and character on your part. Then ordered to pay another $83.3mil because he was found guilty of defaming her in the court of law. And now recently ordered to pay a total of $453mil for being found guilty of fraud in the court of law.

Witch hunts in order to create election interference don't lead to convictions generating half a billion dollars worth of damages.

Jan 6th, fake electores, & classified documents were all live events for us to see him guilty of for ourselves. They all become investigations due to standard operating procedure. If enough evidence during investigation presents itself to go to trial than it goes to trial, again standard operating procedure.

Can't commit crimes than claim election interference when investigated for them. Then again I guess you can since people will still buy in to it.

Trump is guilty as hell. His only play is to drag out the trials long enough to and hope to win Presidency again. Then pardon himself of all his crimes.

Might as well buy his new shoes as well DLeethal, help him pay for his sexual assault damages.

Russia "interfering in an election" - which is also a specialty of the US and more specifically the Biden camp - is much different than saying "Trump colluded with Russia to steal an election" - the latter of which was knowingly false yet put out by intelligence services and paraded by the media, who knew it was false, for the better part of 2 years.

Russia, China, Iran, Israel, Germany, friends or foes, play their part in "interfering" or "impacting" or "swaying" our elections as we do theirs. Not sure that's really breaking news to anyone. And indictment a bunch of Russians on that doesn't disprove anything about the Trump/Russia narrative being willful misinformation. But clouding "Trump colluded with Russia" with "Russia interfered" is exactly what they did successfully to people like you who can't tell the difference.

None of that matters because in the court of law it didn't get past the investigation stage. Trump didn't get charged while 34 other were indicted.

Trump did though get investigated, charged, tried and found guilty of sexual assault of a woman in the court of law by a jury of his peers. He again was investigated, charged, tried and found guilty of fraud.

The court doesn't play to media narratives, it's not how court works. When there wasn't substantial enough evidence he didn't get charged or go to trial. He has gone to trial only when the evidence is overwhelming. Which is why he has easily been found guilty of the charges he has gone to trial for.

Trump has 94 indictments because the evidence is overwhelming enough to indict and bring to trial. Only thing Biden or Dems could do if they were trying to election interfere would be to create investigations. Much like GOP has been attempting to do towards Biden. But it wouldn't get past that stage if the evidence doesn't warrant it.

At the same token Trump and the GOP ha e been in court since Biden has been president claiming the election was stolen. And have been embarrassed in court for it due to not being able to provide any tangible evidence. They have been knowing lying about it promoting it through their media. While getting destroyed in court.

But I'm almost certain your okay with that.

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HofstraBBall
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2/19/2024  2:31 PM
DLeethal wrote:
martin wrote:
DLeethal wrote:
martin wrote:
DLeethal wrote:
martin wrote:
DLeethal wrote:The reason Trump's support strengthens with every indictment is because the majority of Americans see exactly what is happening here. They trying to put him in prison for the rest of his life not because his egregious crimes but because they don't want him to be president again. The man has been in the public spotlight for 5 decades and never faced a charge, then all of a sudden gets a tsunami of charges once he declares he's running again. Every single one of these cases has been some never-used fringe political theory (the Stormy case or the RICO case for challenging an election) or something that everyone in Trump's shoes does but never gets charged for (the classified docs and embellishing your net worth for preferable loans). The majority of the country does not find any of these charges to be warranted or credible. The left will laugh it off as a bunch of bible thumping rednecks but they are just showing they have never left their metropolitan bubbles, Trump's support has only widened and is getting stronger across the board. That's no different than the right saying all the remaining Biden/Harris supporters are blue haired antifa hippies or entitled college kids still living in their parents basement. Classic denialism and hubris by an out of touch media establishment and their dwindling consumer base.

Those clamoring "save democracy" while pushing to remove the leading candidate from the ballots and have him die in prison just look like out of touch buffoons at this point.

In addition, everyone knows the CIA spied on him during the 2016 election ("conspiracy theory" turned fact) completely made up the Russiagate narrative out of thin air (conspiracy theory turned fact) then pounded everyone over the head with it for 2 years to try and get him removed from office, banded together to discredit the censor the Hunter Biden laptop 2 weeks before the election when they knew it was legitimate (conspiracy theory turned fact). I don't think people realize how dumb they are after crying "election interference" over the Russia nonsense while turning a blind eye to all the election interference that has taken place to try and get this guy removed.

This is why no one takes the indictments seriously and his popularity gets stronger each time, the people trying to get Trump out for 7 years have lost all credibility at this point.

Why are you speaking for anyone else besides yourself? Cause you can **** off with that level of uninformed gibberish; no need to splash any of that ignorance any further.

I find your lack of having an iota of a clue kinda revealing. We shall blame it on our poor educational system.

Lay off the Fox News stuff, it’ll be healthier for you.

I'm speaking based on facts - the fact is with every indictment his poll numbers went up, thus more and more people were not finding them warranted or credible. Not rocket science.

What poll? Link to it.

And who was asked and what did they ask?

Polls are everywhere. Why do you find the ones you read substantial?

Are you seriously going to try and muddy up the fact that Trump's poll numbers have gone up over the course of the past 6 months+? This is not something that would be refuted by any news outlet.

You need to substantiate your statements, not me.

You are making an assertion. Back it up and then explain to us why those polls are relevant.

Make your opinion and assertions work cause so far you are dancing around air. You got nothing but you own opinion.

Zero relevant fact based information.

Look at the polls yourself. It's quite obvious to anyone with a working brain, that Trump's numbers have gotten much stronger over the course of the past 6 months. You can try to muddy that up all you want, but it's a fact jack.

https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/president/general/2024/trump-vs-biden-vs-kennedy-vs-west-vs-stein

Onus is on you to try and disprove this one, since it's widely known and a prevalent talking point on EVERY news outlet, not just right wing media.

Same source that denied Bidens win.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/17/us/politics/real-clear-politics.html

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HofstraBBall
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2/19/2024  3:27 PM
DLeethal wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:Wow DLeethal! You are incredibly misinformed sheesh. Actually I don't know if we can chalk this up to misinformed anymore at this stage. Most likely willful ignorance.

34 people were indicted from the Mueller investigation.
The Special Counsel indicted 34 people—seven U.S. nationals, 26 Russian nationals, and one Dutch national—and three Russian organizations. Two additional individuals were charged as a result of referrals to other FBI offices.[

It was proven that Russia interfered with the election. The investigation into Trump was to see if he was involved or not. They did not find enough concrete evidence to say if Trump was or was not involved within the investigation. But the overall investigation got 34 people indicted.

For you to say it was a made up Russian story only shows that you have been successfully manipulated again probably willfully.

Trump was ordered to pay E.Jean Carroll $5mil because he was FOUND GUILTY OF SEXUAL ASSAULT in the court of law. The fact that him being guilty of sexual assault and you choosing to side with him still. Just shows a lack of morals and character on your part. Then ordered to pay another $83.3mil because he was found guilty of defaming her in the court of law. And now recently ordered to pay a total of $453mil for being found guilty of fraud in the court of law.

Witch hunts in order to create election interference don't lead to convictions generating half a billion dollars worth of damages.

Jan 6th, fake electores, & classified documents were all live events for us to see him guilty of for ourselves. They all become investigations due to standard operating procedure. If enough evidence during investigation presents itself to go to trial than it goes to trial, again standard operating procedure.

Can't commit crimes than claim election interference when investigated for them. Then again I guess you can since people will still buy in to it.

Trump is guilty as hell. His only play is to drag out the trials long enough to and hope to win Presidency again. Then pardon himself of all his crimes.

Might as well buy his new shoes as well DLeethal, help him pay for his sexual assault damages.

Russia "interfering in an election" - which is also a specialty of the US and more specifically the Biden camp - is much different than saying "Trump colluded with Russia to steal an election" - the latter of which was knowingly false yet put out by intelligence services and paraded by the media, who knew it was false, for the better part of 2 years.

Russia, China, Iran, Israel, Germany, friends or foes, play their part in "interfering" or "impacting" or "swaying" our elections as we do theirs. Not sure that's really breaking news to anyone. And indictment a bunch of Russians on that doesn't disprove anything about the Trump/Russia narrative being willful misinformation. But clouding "Trump colluded with Russia" with "Russia interfered" is exactly what they did successfully to people like you who can't tell the difference.

You make a great point.
You have to give Trump the benefit of the doubt. He has never showed a propensity to interfere with the democratic process. Especially when it favors him.
I mean, there is absolutely no evidence of him wilfully participating in any action that would interfere with an elections.
Well except for the whole election fraud claims.
The Kraken, hair dye Guliani, Dsleazy, the pillow guy and Jenna all proved this to be true.
And except for the Georgia phone call.
Or the fake electors.
I'll take your word for it. "Provably" have solid proof.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/wisconsin-fake-elector-says-he-was-tricked-into-signing-phony-document-claiming-trump-won-60-minutes-transcript/

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newyorknewyork
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2/19/2024  3:41 PM
Trump has claimed the election was stolen. He is going to be on trial for inciting an insurrection on the lie that the election was stolen while also trying to create fake electors to generate enough numbers to win.

Court would be the perfect opportunity for him to prove the election was indeed stolen. This would justify the Jan 6th insurrection. Clearing him and punishing Biden and the Dems all in one swoop. He should have pushed for his trial if it was indeed stolen and he had the proof he has claimed he and to prove it.

But he knows he's lying and has been lying. And that he's guilty as hell. So instead his play is to attempt to delay the trial hoping is Prez and pardons himself.

Lying at the level they Trump has while still generating the support he has to be the top nominee. As the youngins say today. NASTY WORK

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martin
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2/19/2024  3:55 PM
DLeethal wrote:Yawn.

I'd like a President who doesn't refuse to acknowledge his granddaughter's existence until guilted into by the media.

or a President who doesn't use his crackhead son as his bagman.

or a President who doesn't try to throw his opponent in prison during a election.

or a President who is not deemed too old and mentally feeble to even stand trial for a crime.

We can all play that stupid game.

Biden's son is a flawed human being. Drug addict. Loves his hookers and coke and video tapes himself doing naked slip and slide with champagne splashing everywhere. I'm a bit jealous. It's awesome that Marjorie Taylor Greene feels the need to stoop to holding up his dick pics in a congressional setting, shows you the true colors of a particular person and perspective that is pervasive amongst the Republican party and generally with douchebags who need to stoop to that level cause they don't have an ounce of intelligence to do any better.

And yet the entirety of the Trump administration and DOJ and Rudy were not able to track down this coke addicts crimes after 4+ years of digging? The best they could come up with is Rudy and the laptop?

Trump and his agents and allies were that dumb. Or the coke/hookers naked guy was that smart to avoid getting caught. He was smart enough to not keep his secrets on display in his bathroom?

How embarrassing is it that Biden's son is this smart to not get caught doing "bagman" stuff? Whatever that may be? The dude is just weiner posting and snorting coke with hookers and that's the best Trump adn Barr could come up with? Dick pics?

You know I love the dick pics as much as the cheerleader pics but that's kinda embarrassing as a bagman. But also kudos for the slip and slide action.

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newyorknewyork
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2/19/2024  4:10 PM
martin wrote:
DLeethal wrote:Yawn.

I'd like a President who doesn't refuse to acknowledge his granddaughter's existence until guilted into by the media.

or a President who doesn't use his crackhead son as his bagman.

or a President who doesn't try to throw his opponent in prison during a election.

or a President who is not deemed too old and mentally feeble to even stand trial for a crime.

We can all play that stupid game.

Biden's son is a flawed human being. Drug addict. Loves his hookers and coke and video tapes himself doing naked slip and slide with champagne splashing everywhere. I'm a bit jealous. It's awesome that Marjorie Taylor Greene feels the need to stoop to holding up his dick pics in a congressional setting, shows you the true colors of a particular person and perspective that is pervasive amongst the Republican party and generally with douchebags who need to stoop to that level cause they don't have an ounce of intelligence to do any better.

And yet the entirety of the Trump administration and DOJ and Rudy were not able to track down this coke addicts crimes after 4+ years of digging? The best they could come up with is Rudy and the laptop?

Trump and his agents and allies were that dumb. Or the coke/hookers naked guy was that smart to avoid getting caught. He was smart enough to not keep his secrets on display in his bathroom?

How embarrassing is it that Biden's son is this smart to not get caught doing "bagman" stuff? Whatever that may be? The dude is just weiner posting and snorting coke with hookers and that's the best Trump adn Barr could come up with? Dick pics?

You know I love the dick pics as much as the cheerleader pics but that's kinda embarrassing as a bagman. But also kudos for the slip and slide action.

That's because Biden is an evil genius who is also senile at the same time.

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GustavBahler
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2/19/2024  5:01 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/19/2024  5:05 PM
A statistic to think about. The pct of taxes collected from corporate America. The share they pay is at its lowest level since the 1950s. When we didnt have companies with a valuation upwards of a trillion dollars . Which means everybody else picks up the slack.

Next time you're concerned about the debt and cutting programs..

newyorknewyork
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2/19/2024  6:20 PM
CanItGetAnyWorse wrote:
gradyandrew wrote:
martin wrote:
gradyandrew wrote:
martin wrote:
gradyandrew wrote:First, the caveats:

1. Forgot where we landed on 'political talk,' if I'm overstepping the boundaries just shut it down.

2. Trump is a fraudster. Trump University was a hoax.

3. No doubt that Trump inflated the value of his properties.


BUT, my big issue is the government bringing the case in the first place. I really don't like the idea of prosecutors having the right to enter a civil contract without either of the parties to the contract bringing suit. It just seems to open the bag to way too much government interference in private life. Any legal eagles know if this is already something government does regularly or has done before?

You are against something you literally have zero background or firm understanding of what you are talking about.

Thats the basis for your (uninformed? misguided?) opinion?

I wouldn't say zero background. It was a civil, not criminally trial. That's why Hofstra's first two analogies didn't sit right with me- prostitution and speeding are criminal offenses. My question was if the state has the right to file in a civil suit. I respect your knowledge and that of others in this forum. And yes, I'm probably less informed than a lot of people here and maybe misguided. That's why I ask.

So I don’t get your take. Why come to an opinion on something before you even have much of a background on a subject?

Seems like an odd sequence of things.

I get asking questions on it, but that’s a different path.

Honestly man, I'm hoping you will explain it to me. I know you are deep in this **** and my initial take is that this is more about sinking Trump's run than the actual charges, which to me is a dangerous slope- when politicians are facing prison or dictatorship, they usually choose the latter.

So, a useful nudge in the right direction would be appreciated. Or not.

I think you are on to something.

3/17 - Hunter admits laptop
3/18 - Trump indictment news

6/8 - FBI doc alleges Biden bribe
6/9 - INDICTMENT

7/26 - Hunter plea deal collapses
7/27 - INDICTMENT

7/31 - Devon Archer testifies
8/1 - INDICTMENT

8/11 - DOJ (illegally) designates special counsel
8/14 - FBI Whistleblower transcript released
8/14 - INDICTMENT

12/13 - House authorizes Biden impeachment inquiry
12/19 - Biden family whistleblower testifies
12/19 - Colorado ballot removal

2/14 - Damning evidence proving 'Russiagate' was a hoax
2/15 - Fans Willis hearing
2/16 - Tony Bobulinski transcript on Biden family corruption released
2/16 - $354 million fine & banned from business in NY

Just remembered to touch on this.

A series of events have to happen before someone can be indicted. Has to be a thorough investigation with overwhelming evidence to support indicting someone. It doesn't just happen at the drop of a hat. They can't just indict Trump as a deflection to news against Biden. There was a process of Jack Smith for example getting Trump's own stooges to flip on Trump giving up the details solidifying the evidence to call for indictment. And Trump's own GOP members and employees will be the one testifying against him in court as they are the ones that gave up the details and will have to explain that to the jury.

Odds are waay higher ppl were aware ahead of time when the indictments were likely to hit. And manipulated the news around that. Than Biden and the Dems being able to manipulate court to drop indictments on Trump in order to deflect.

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HofstraBBall
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2/19/2024  6:50 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/19/2024  6:51 PM
A poll of scholars and historians. Ie....Educated people.

Cue Dsleazy posting some YouTube videos of some guy named Elmer to contradict them.

https://www.npr.org/2024/02/19/1232447088/historians-presidents-survey-trump-last-biden-14th

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martin
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2/19/2024  6:54 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:
CanItGetAnyWorse wrote:
gradyandrew wrote:
martin wrote:
gradyandrew wrote:
martin wrote:
gradyandrew wrote:First, the caveats:

1. Forgot where we landed on 'political talk,' if I'm overstepping the boundaries just shut it down.

2. Trump is a fraudster. Trump University was a hoax.

3. No doubt that Trump inflated the value of his properties.


BUT, my big issue is the government bringing the case in the first place. I really don't like the idea of prosecutors having the right to enter a civil contract without either of the parties to the contract bringing suit. It just seems to open the bag to way too much government interference in private life. Any legal eagles know if this is already something government does regularly or has done before?

You are against something you literally have zero background or firm understanding of what you are talking about.

Thats the basis for your (uninformed? misguided?) opinion?

I wouldn't say zero background. It was a civil, not criminally trial. That's why Hofstra's first two analogies didn't sit right with me- prostitution and speeding are criminal offenses. My question was if the state has the right to file in a civil suit. I respect your knowledge and that of others in this forum. And yes, I'm probably less informed than a lot of people here and maybe misguided. That's why I ask.

So I don’t get your take. Why come to an opinion on something before you even have much of a background on a subject?

Seems like an odd sequence of things.

I get asking questions on it, but that’s a different path.

Honestly man, I'm hoping you will explain it to me. I know you are deep in this **** and my initial take is that this is more about sinking Trump's run than the actual charges, which to me is a dangerous slope- when politicians are facing prison or dictatorship, they usually choose the latter.

So, a useful nudge in the right direction would be appreciated. Or not.

I think you are on to something.

3/17 - Hunter admits laptop
3/18 - Trump indictment news

6/8 - FBI doc alleges Biden bribe
6/9 - INDICTMENT

7/26 - Hunter plea deal collapses
7/27 - INDICTMENT

7/31 - Devon Archer testifies
8/1 - INDICTMENT

8/11 - DOJ (illegally) designates special counsel
8/14 - FBI Whistleblower transcript released
8/14 - INDICTMENT

12/13 - House authorizes Biden impeachment inquiry
12/19 - Biden family whistleblower testifies
12/19 - Colorado ballot removal

2/14 - Damning evidence proving 'Russiagate' was a hoax
2/15 - Fans Willis hearing
2/16 - Tony Bobulinski transcript on Biden family corruption released
2/16 - $354 million fine & banned from business in NY

Just remembered to touch on this.

A series of events have to happen before someone can be indicted. Has to be a thorough investigation with overwhelming evidence to support indicting someone. It doesn't just happen at the drop of a hat. They can't just indict Trump as a deflection to news against Biden. There was a process of Jack Smith for example getting Trump's own stooges to flip on Trump giving up the details solidifying the evidence to call for indictment. And Trump's own GOP members and employees will be the one testifying against him in court as they are the ones that gave up the details and will have to explain that to the jury.

Odds are waay higher ppl were aware ahead of time when the indictments were likely to hit. And manipulated the news around that. Than Biden and the Dems being able to manipulate court to drop indictments on Trump in order to deflect.

I see that you don’t belong to the Tin Foil Hat wearing committee

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martin
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2/19/2024  8:27 PM
DLeethal wrote:This was a lot of fun. I will bow out now and allow you all to continue to enjoy your echo chamber. See you on the Knicks side.

This right here is what happens when you mix irony and ignorance

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martin
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2/19/2024  8:30 PM
This is no doubt from some poll, so it must mean something, something very very substantial

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newyorknewyork
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2/20/2024  3:15 PM
martin wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
CanItGetAnyWorse wrote:
gradyandrew wrote:
martin wrote:
gradyandrew wrote:
martin wrote:
gradyandrew wrote:First, the caveats:

1. Forgot where we landed on 'political talk,' if I'm overstepping the boundaries just shut it down.

2. Trump is a fraudster. Trump University was a hoax.

3. No doubt that Trump inflated the value of his properties.


BUT, my big issue is the government bringing the case in the first place. I really don't like the idea of prosecutors having the right to enter a civil contract without either of the parties to the contract bringing suit. It just seems to open the bag to way too much government interference in private life. Any legal eagles know if this is already something government does regularly or has done before?

You are against something you literally have zero background or firm understanding of what you are talking about.

Thats the basis for your (uninformed? misguided?) opinion?

I wouldn't say zero background. It was a civil, not criminally trial. That's why Hofstra's first two analogies didn't sit right with me- prostitution and speeding are criminal offenses. My question was if the state has the right to file in a civil suit. I respect your knowledge and that of others in this forum. And yes, I'm probably less informed than a lot of people here and maybe misguided. That's why I ask.

So I don’t get your take. Why come to an opinion on something before you even have much of a background on a subject?

Seems like an odd sequence of things.

I get asking questions on it, but that’s a different path.

Honestly man, I'm hoping you will explain it to me. I know you are deep in this **** and my initial take is that this is more about sinking Trump's run than the actual charges, which to me is a dangerous slope- when politicians are facing prison or dictatorship, they usually choose the latter.

So, a useful nudge in the right direction would be appreciated. Or not.

I think you are on to something.

3/17 - Hunter admits laptop
3/18 - Trump indictment news

6/8 - FBI doc alleges Biden bribe
6/9 - INDICTMENT

7/26 - Hunter plea deal collapses
7/27 - INDICTMENT

7/31 - Devon Archer testifies
8/1 - INDICTMENT

8/11 - DOJ (illegally) designates special counsel
8/14 - FBI Whistleblower transcript released
8/14 - INDICTMENT

12/13 - House authorizes Biden impeachment inquiry
12/19 - Biden family whistleblower testifies
12/19 - Colorado ballot removal

2/14 - Damning evidence proving 'Russiagate' was a hoax
2/15 - Fans Willis hearing
2/16 - Tony Bobulinski transcript on Biden family corruption released
2/16 - $354 million fine & banned from business in NY

Just remembered to touch on this.

A series of events have to happen before someone can be indicted. Has to be a thorough investigation with overwhelming evidence to support indicting someone. It doesn't just happen at the drop of a hat. They can't just indict Trump as a deflection to news against Biden. There was a process of Jack Smith for example getting Trump's own stooges to flip on Trump giving up the details solidifying the evidence to call for indictment. And Trump's own GOP members and employees will be the one testifying against him in court as they are the ones that gave up the details and will have to explain that to the jury.

Odds are waay higher ppl were aware ahead of time when the indictments were likely to hit. And manipulated the news around that. Than Biden and the Dems being able to manipulate court to drop indictments on Trump in order to deflect.

I see that you don’t belong to the Tin Foil Hat wearing committee

Former FBI informant charged with lying about Biden business
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2024/02/15/hunter-biden-informant-indicted-fbi-burisma/

https://vote.nba.com/en Vote for your Knicks.
martin
Posts: 69382
Alba Posts: 108
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #2
USA
2/20/2024  9:49 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:
martin wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
CanItGetAnyWorse wrote:
gradyandrew wrote:
martin wrote:
gradyandrew wrote:
martin wrote:
gradyandrew wrote:First, the caveats:

1. Forgot where we landed on 'political talk,' if I'm overstepping the boundaries just shut it down.

2. Trump is a fraudster. Trump University was a hoax.

3. No doubt that Trump inflated the value of his properties.


BUT, my big issue is the government bringing the case in the first place. I really don't like the idea of prosecutors having the right to enter a civil contract without either of the parties to the contract bringing suit. It just seems to open the bag to way too much government interference in private life. Any legal eagles know if this is already something government does regularly or has done before?

You are against something you literally have zero background or firm understanding of what you are talking about.

Thats the basis for your (uninformed? misguided?) opinion?

I wouldn't say zero background. It was a civil, not criminally trial. That's why Hofstra's first two analogies didn't sit right with me- prostitution and speeding are criminal offenses. My question was if the state has the right to file in a civil suit. I respect your knowledge and that of others in this forum. And yes, I'm probably less informed than a lot of people here and maybe misguided. That's why I ask.

So I don’t get your take. Why come to an opinion on something before you even have much of a background on a subject?

Seems like an odd sequence of things.

I get asking questions on it, but that’s a different path.

Honestly man, I'm hoping you will explain it to me. I know you are deep in this **** and my initial take is that this is more about sinking Trump's run than the actual charges, which to me is a dangerous slope- when politicians are facing prison or dictatorship, they usually choose the latter.

So, a useful nudge in the right direction would be appreciated. Or not.

I think you are on to something.

3/17 - Hunter admits laptop
3/18 - Trump indictment news

6/8 - FBI doc alleges Biden bribe
6/9 - INDICTMENT

7/26 - Hunter plea deal collapses
7/27 - INDICTMENT

7/31 - Devon Archer testifies
8/1 - INDICTMENT

8/11 - DOJ (illegally) designates special counsel
8/14 - FBI Whistleblower transcript released
8/14 - INDICTMENT

12/13 - House authorizes Biden impeachment inquiry
12/19 - Biden family whistleblower testifies
12/19 - Colorado ballot removal

2/14 - Damning evidence proving 'Russiagate' was a hoax
2/15 - Fans Willis hearing
2/16 - Tony Bobulinski transcript on Biden family corruption released
2/16 - $354 million fine & banned from business in NY

Just remembered to touch on this.

A series of events have to happen before someone can be indicted. Has to be a thorough investigation with overwhelming evidence to support indicting someone. It doesn't just happen at the drop of a hat. They can't just indict Trump as a deflection to news against Biden. There was a process of Jack Smith for example getting Trump's own stooges to flip on Trump giving up the details solidifying the evidence to call for indictment. And Trump's own GOP members and employees will be the one testifying against him in court as they are the ones that gave up the details and will have to explain that to the jury.

Odds are waay higher ppl were aware ahead of time when the indictments were likely to hit. And manipulated the news around that. Than Biden and the Dems being able to manipulate court to drop indictments on Trump in order to deflect.

I see that you don’t belong to the Tin Foil Hat wearing committee

Former FBI informant charged with lying about Biden business
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2024/02/15/hunter-biden-informant-indicted-fbi-burisma/

This about sums it up

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HofstraBBall
Posts: 27226
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 11/21/2015
Member: #6192

2/20/2024  10:05 PM

Just another instance in which Trump had no hand in interfering with the democratic process.

'Knicks focus should be on players that have grown up playing soccer or cricket' - Triplethreat 8/28/2020
gradyandrew
Posts: 22128
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 5/19/2021
Member: #8959

2/21/2024  5:14 AM
martin wrote:
gradyandrew wrote:
martin wrote:
gradyandrew wrote:
martin wrote:
gradyandrew wrote:First, the caveats:

1. Forgot where we landed on 'political talk,' if I'm overstepping the boundaries just shut it down.

2. Trump is a fraudster. Trump University was a hoax.

3. No doubt that Trump inflated the value of his properties.


BUT, my big issue is the government bringing the case in the first place. I really don't like the idea of prosecutors having the right to enter a civil contract without either of the parties to the contract bringing suit. It just seems to open the bag to way too much government interference in private life. Any legal eagles know if this is already something government does regularly or has done before?

You are against something you literally have zero background or firm understanding of what you are talking about.

Thats the basis for your (uninformed? misguided?) opinion?

I wouldn't say zero background. It was a civil, not criminally trial. That's why Hofstra's first two analogies didn't sit right with me- prostitution and speeding are criminal offenses. My question was if the state has the right to file in a civil suit. I respect your knowledge and that of others in this forum. And yes, I'm probably less informed than a lot of people here and maybe misguided. That's why I ask.

So I don’t get your take. Why come to an opinion on something before you even have much of a background on a subject?

Seems like an odd sequence of things.

I get asking questions on it, but that’s a different path.

Honestly man, I'm hoping you will explain it to me. I know you are deep in this **** and my initial take is that this is more about sinking Trump's run than the actual charges, which to me is a dangerous slope- when politicians are facing prison or dictatorship, they usually choose the latter.

So, a useful nudge in the right direction would be appreciated. Or not.

State and Federal govt bring both civil and criminal charges against people and entities all the time. This is not a new thing, like at all. Since the beginning of time.

Leona Helmsley is a good parallel that we all should have at least heard the name. She got big fines and jail time for pretty much the same things Trump is getting fined for. There are lots of instances of this all over the place.

You will maybe find this hard to believe but DA’s often run on platforms of prosecuting criminals any which way they can. They often run by actually naming their scumbag targets. As with mob bosses like Al Capone and ****bags like Trump and pretty much his entire family. Much like the full Republican Party is running around on platforms of trying to murder and prosecute the most helpless and poorest people in parts of central and South America who are mostly just trying to flee from terror in their own home countries by way of coming to the country of the home of the free and brave. Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!

Or maybe not so much?

Helmsley was convicted for not paying her taxes.

I've looked up a lot of cases where states' attorneys have bought civil cases. All the examples I could find have been them joining class action suits already filed by private attorneys, examples including tobacco, securities fraud, pollution, and pharmaceutical companies. I haven't found one example of the state bringing a civil charge for monetary damages without an initial filing by an aggrieved party.

I really didn't want this thread to get into all of Trump's other offenses and actions. He was president for four years as has Biden, so it should be a pretty simple argument of comparing their records.

DeeLethal's takes are exactly the reason why I get real quesy about what's happening. It's hard for me to see how any of the indictments have hurt Trump. The idea that states attorneys are trying to keep him off the ballot seems way more problematic.

I have thoughts about the civil trial for pain and suffering (not a criminal conviction of sexual assault) and also Jan. 6 as it pertains to the 14the Amendment (which very specifically leaves President off the list) but I will leave those at the door.

Can anyone post a non-google docs or sribd link to Engoron's decision? Both of those are blocked in China.

And yes, I'd much rather have a beer with Hunter than Trump or Joe.

OT: Trump Fined 350 million for Fraud

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