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OT: Trump Fined 350 million for Fraud
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gradyandrew
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2/16/2024  8:06 PM
First, the caveats:

1. Forgot where we landed on 'political talk,' if I'm overstepping the boundaries just shut it down.

2. Trump is a fraudster. Trump University was a hoax.

3. No doubt that Trump inflated the value of his properties.


BUT, my big issue is the government bringing the case in the first place. I really don't like the idea of prosecutors having the right to enter a civil contract without either of the parties to the contract bringing suit. It just seems to open the bag to way too much government interference in private life. Any legal eagles know if this is already something government does regularly or has done before?

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HofstraBBall
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2/16/2024  8:55 PM
gradyandrew wrote:First, the caveats:

1. Forgot where we landed on 'political talk,' if I'm overstepping the boundaries just shut it down.

2. Trump is a fraudster. Trump University was a hoax.

3. No doubt that Trump inflated the value of his properties.


BUT, my big issue is the government bringing the case in the first place. I really don't like the idea of prosecutors having the right to enter a civil contract without either of the parties to the contract bringing suit. It just seems to open the bag to way too much government interference in private life. Any legal eagles know if this is already something government does regularly or has done before?

Committing bank fraud is illegal.
Isn't a DA's job to prosecute illegal acts?
Regardless if the victim initiates any legal action.

Maybe relating it to other illegal acts in which the "government" is responsible for enforcing laws and regulations. Should a police officer stop cars breaking speeding ordinances? Or just they wait until the speeder causes an accident and the victim files a complaint?

Trump reminds me of a husband who is a pathological liar and constantly cheats. Which he is.
And Trump followers are the gullible wife living in denial.
He gets caught cheating but once again tells his wife he has not done anything wrong and that everyone that saw him with another woman is crazy and just lying. And despite it happening over and over again the wife keeps taking him back.

It's a sad time in our country when a figure who preaches hate and discrimination is so popular.
Which is exactly what I knew would happen when he was elected.

'Knicks focus should be on players that have grown up playing soccer or cricket' - Triplethreat 8/28/2020
JesseDark
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2/16/2024  10:11 PM
Excellent analogy HofstraBBall!

In prostitution either party rarely files a complaint but it is prosecuted all the time.

Bring back dee-fense
blkexec
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2/16/2024  10:25 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/16/2024  10:27 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:
gradyandrew wrote:First, the caveats:

1. Forgot where we landed on 'political talk,' if I'm overstepping the boundaries just shut it down.

2. Trump is a fraudster. Trump University was a hoax.

3. No doubt that Trump inflated the value of his properties.


BUT, my big issue is the government bringing the case in the first place. I really don't like the idea of prosecutors having the right to enter a civil contract without either of the parties to the contract bringing suit. It just seems to open the bag to way too much government interference in private life. Any legal eagles know if this is already something government does regularly or has done before?

Committing bank fraud is illegal.
Isn't a DA's job to prosecute illegal acts?
Regardless if the victim initiates any legal action.

Maybe relating it to other illegal acts in which the "government" is responsible for enforcing laws and regulations. Should a police officer stop cars breaking speeding ordinances? Or just they wait until the speeder causes an accident and the victim files a complaint?

Trump reminds me of a husband who is a pathological liar and constantly cheats. Which he is.
And Trump followers are the gullible wife living in denial.
He gets caught cheating but once again tells his wife he has not done anything wrong and that everyone that saw him with another woman is crazy and just lying. And despite it happening over and over again the wife keeps taking him back.

It's a sad time in our country when a figure who preaches hate and discrimination is so popular.
Which is exactly what I knew would happen when he was elected.

No what’s sad are people who are in denial that this country was built on hate, murder, rape (by the very same immigrants politicians are now trying to keep out) and 400 years discrimination, bigotry and racism. If you look at the very history of America, Trump looks like a saint.

Trump is a pawn in a system that controls him and this demonic construct we see everyday. Americans love gangsters and thugs because that’s who stole this country. So nothing 45 does should surprise anybody.

Born in Brooklyn, Raised in Queens, Lives in Maryland. The future is bright, I'm a Knicks fan for life!
blkexec
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2/16/2024  10:29 PM
Look at the top riches family in American history and majority are foreigners including Trump. So I’m not surprised at all. Until this very soil of this country is flipped upside down, and the powers at be running this system are exposed, nothing will change. Just changes into different forms of evil.
Born in Brooklyn, Raised in Queens, Lives in Maryland. The future is bright, I'm a Knicks fan for life!
gradyandrew
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2/17/2024  1:13 AM    LAST EDITED: 2/17/2024  1:16 AM
Neither the prostitution or speeding analogy are really working for me. At the end of the day the banks accepted Trump's valuations. Interest charged on a loan is up to the loaning party themselves. I don't think an outside party has the right to determine the rates charged.

I buy a sweater at full price and then later in the day you get the same one at half off. I, you, and the store are all satisfied. The government can't come in and sue on my behalf that I got defrauded by paying more for the sweater, can they? Was I defrauded by the store for paying $100 for a $50 sweater?

gradyandrew
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2/17/2024  1:28 AM
The other thing is- is there a legal precedent forgot this kind of government action?

I'm not sure how many history buffs are here but a lot of this reminds me of the fall of the Roman Republic. Of course the remaining sources mostly draw from the Caesarean camp, but it would be hard to argue that the Optimates insistence on prosecuting Caesar for his violations of Roman law while Consul didn't play a major role in his decision to set up a dictatorship. If your choices are dictatorship or exile, isn't it the rational choice to seize extra Constitutional power? Especially if the charges are considered spurious by most citizens?

Alpha1971
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2/17/2024  6:45 AM
When he is re-elected, I wonder how many DAs and opponents he throws in jail. Or how many of them get uranium in their sushi. Me personally, I keep my dislike of him to minimum with his supporters at work cause I'm fearing a 1970s - 1980s Chile, Argentina, Latin American right wing experience where people get disappeared. It's on the horizon
ToddTT
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2/17/2024  7:23 AM
We should have a separate politics forum that I can ignore the everliving **** out of.

Does anybody else click on threads so they don't show up as unread? Stupid OCD!

The best politics threads are those telling people to vote. Get off of your couch and vote. Together we can elect the least-worst candidates!!!

Carry on.

nycericanguy
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2/17/2024  7:40 AM    LAST EDITED: 2/17/2024  7:47 AM
a DA that literally ran on "I'm gonna get him"... NYC juries for all these civil trials, is it any surprise how any of it turns out? The telling part is despite years and years of attempted prosecution for all these "crimes" he's committed, no criminal convictions. I'm not big on politics but it's a dangerous game and precedent and IDK how anyone can be blind to whats going on here. As Kevin O'learly said if you're gonna prosecute Trump for this then you better line up every other RE developer or else this is just a targeted hit job.

As a life long NYer, puerto rican, I laugh at the "racist" angle constantly being pushed. The real racism is the young rich liberals trying to push cops out of the poor, minority communities that need them most, while they go back home to their safe UES doorman buildings because they know whats best for everyone else.

HofstraBBall
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2/17/2024  8:25 AM    LAST EDITED: 2/17/2024  8:35 AM
gradyandrew wrote:Neither the prostitution or speeding analogy are really working for me. At the end of the day the banks accepted Trump's valuations. Interest charged on a loan is up to the loaning party themselves. I don't think an outside party has the right to determine the rates charged.

I buy a sweater at full price and then later in the day you get the same one at half off. I, you, and the store are all satisfied. The government can't come in and sue on my behalf that I got defrauded by paying more for the sweater, can they? Was I defrauded by the store for paying $100 for a $50 sweater?

You keep missing the same point. Selling a sweater at any price is not illegal.
Lying to a banking institution, Aka committing fraud, is.

The banks money that was lent to Trump, at a lower interest rate, is who's money?
Not the banks right?
So the people's money has to be protected.
If Trumps investments went South because of his fraud, who would be left holding the bag when the bank goes under? That is why the government carefully oversees any banking institutions and frowns upon guys like Trump lying so he can save a few hundred million in interest.
So not the same in the sweater analogy.

'Knicks focus should be on players that have grown up playing soccer or cricket' - Triplethreat 8/28/2020
HofstraBBall
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2/17/2024  8:48 AM    LAST EDITED: 2/17/2024  10:41 AM
nycericanguy wrote:a DA that literally ran on "I'm gonna get him"... NYC juries for all these civil trials, is it any surprise how any of it turns out? The telling part is despite years and years of attempted prosecution for all these "crimes" he's committed, no criminal convictions. I'm not big on politics but it's a dangerous game and precedent and IDK how anyone can be blind to whats going on here. As Kevin O'learly said if you're gonna prosecute Trump for this then you better line up every other RE developer or else this is just a targeted hit job.

As a life long NYer, puerto rican, I laugh at the "racist" angle constantly being pushed. The real racism is the young rich liberals trying to push cops out of the poor, minority communities that need them most, while they go back home to their safe UES doorman buildings because they know whats best for everyone else.

There have always been enemies in politics.
Trump made a lot.
He did not seem to be shy about making them.
History will continue having them go after each other.
Kevin is just scared he is next.
He is right though, it's been done by so many others.
Rule 1 when breaking the law is, don't get caught.
Rule 1A is that if you want to get caught, brag about it to someone who can do something about it.
Trump got caught and some want us to feel sorry for him?
Trouble with all these narratives is that they are the same basic arguements many have used when trying to get away with breaking the law. Ie. "no one was hurt" or "everyone does it".
Let's just get rid of all the laws. I'm sure many can come up with great excuses like the ones above to do so.

Fyi, Rich people could not care less about what happens in poor neighborhoods.
Too busy enjoying everything they have worked for.
Does not mean they want cops out of any neighborhood.
Most just want them to be held accountable for breaking the law.
Seems consistent right?
NO ONE is above the law.

'Knicks focus should be on players that have grown up playing soccer or cricket' - Triplethreat 8/28/2020
HofstraBBall
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2/17/2024  10:01 AM
blkexec wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
gradyandrew wrote:First, the caveats:

1. Forgot where we landed on 'political talk,' if I'm overstepping the boundaries just shut it down.

2. Trump is a fraudster. Trump University was a hoax.

3. No doubt that Trump inflated the value of his properties.


BUT, my big issue is the government bringing the case in the first place. I really don't like the idea of prosecutors having the right to enter a civil contract without either of the parties to the contract bringing suit. It just seems to open the bag to way too much government interference in private life. Any legal eagles know if this is already something government does regularly or has done before?

Committing bank fraud is illegal.
Isn't a DA's job to prosecute illegal acts?
Regardless if the victim initiates any legal action.

Maybe relating it to other illegal acts in which the "government" is responsible for enforcing laws and regulations. Should a police officer stop cars breaking speeding ordinances? Or just they wait until the speeder causes an accident and the victim files a complaint?

Trump reminds me of a husband who is a pathological liar and constantly cheats. Which he is.
And Trump followers are the gullible wife living in denial.
He gets caught cheating but once again tells his wife he has not done anything wrong and that everyone that saw him with another woman is crazy and just lying. And despite it happening over and over again the wife keeps taking him back.

It's a sad time in our country when a figure who preaches hate and discrimination is so popular.
Which is exactly what I knew would happen when he was elected.

No what’s sad are people who are in denial that this country was built on hate, murder, rape (by the very same immigrants politicians are now trying to keep out) and 400 years discrimination, bigotry and racism. If you look at the very history of America, Trump looks like a saint.

Trump is a pawn in a system that controls him and this demonic construct we see everyday. Americans love gangsters and thugs because that’s who stole this country. So nothing 45 does should surprise anybody.

As many of your posts, you seem to like arguing with yourself by making up extrapolated narratives.
Said it's a sad time. You agreed but disagreed in your response? Did I say it never happened before?

Disagree that this country was built on hate, murder and rape. You must be in the wrong country. This country was built on hard work, sacrifice, initiative and education despite all the hate, murder and rape.
Lots of horrible things happen throughout the worlds History. Not just in the US. The US has always been closest, not perfect, to keeping the balance of good people fighting for equal rights over those promoting hate and discrimination. Still obvious we have a long way to go and maybe an impossible endeavor.

'Knicks focus should be on players that have grown up playing soccer or cricket' - Triplethreat 8/28/2020
HofstraBBall
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2/17/2024  10:34 AM
ToddTT wrote:We should have a separate politics forum that I can ignore the everliving **** out of.

Does anybody else click on threads so they don't show up as unread? Stupid OCD!

The best politics threads are those telling people to vote. Get off of your couch and vote. Together we can elect the least-worst candidates!!!

Carry on.

You know what this thread needs............?

'Knicks focus should be on players that have grown up playing soccer or cricket' - Triplethreat 8/28/2020
ToddTT
Posts: 28444
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2/17/2024  11:06 AM
HofstraBBall wrote:
ToddTT wrote:We should have a separate politics forum that I can ignore the everliving **** out of.

Does anybody else click on threads so they don't show up as unread? Stupid OCD!

The best politics threads are those telling people to vote. Get off of your couch and vote. Together we can elect the least-worst candidates!!!

Carry on.

You know what this thread needs............?

Oh! I know!!! One sec...

ToddTT
Posts: 28444
Alba Posts: 52
Joined: 8/30/2001
Member: #105
2/17/2024  11:08 AM
ToddTT wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
ToddTT wrote:We should have a separate politics forum that I can ignore the everliving **** out of.

Does anybody else click on threads so they don't show up as unread? Stupid OCD!

The best politics threads are those telling people to vote. Get off of your couch and vote. Together we can elect the least-worst candidates!!!

Carry on.

You know what this thread needs............?

Oh! I know!!! One sec...

Boom!

blkexec
Posts: 27876
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Joined: 9/3/2004
Member: #748
2/17/2024  12:22 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:
blkexec wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
gradyandrew wrote:First, the caveats:

1. Forgot where we landed on 'political talk,' if I'm overstepping the boundaries just shut it down.

2. Trump is a fraudster. Trump University was a hoax.

3. No doubt that Trump inflated the value of his properties.


BUT, my big issue is the government bringing the case in the first place. I really don't like the idea of prosecutors having the right to enter a civil contract without either of the parties to the contract bringing suit. It just seems to open the bag to way too much government interference in private life. Any legal eagles know if this is already something government does regularly or has done before?

Committing bank fraud is illegal.
Isn't a DA's job to prosecute illegal acts?
Regardless if the victim initiates any legal action.

Maybe relating it to other illegal acts in which the "government" is responsible for enforcing laws and regulations. Should a police officer stop cars breaking speeding ordinances? Or just they wait until the speeder causes an accident and the victim files a complaint?

Trump reminds me of a husband who is a pathological liar and constantly cheats. Which he is.
And Trump followers are the gullible wife living in denial.
He gets caught cheating but once again tells his wife he has not done anything wrong and that everyone that saw him with another woman is crazy and just lying. And despite it happening over and over again the wife keeps taking him back.

It's a sad time in our country when a figure who preaches hate and discrimination is so popular.
Which is exactly what I knew would happen when he was elected.

No what’s sad are people who are in denial that this country was built on hate, murder, rape (by the very same immigrants politicians are now trying to keep out) and 400 years discrimination, bigotry and racism. If you look at the very history of America, Trump looks like a saint.

Trump is a pawn in a system that controls him and this demonic construct we see everyday. Americans love gangsters and thugs because that’s who stole this country. So nothing 45 does should surprise anybody.

As many of your posts, you seem to like arguing with yourself by making up extrapolated narratives.
Said it's a sad time. You agreed but disagreed in your response? Did I say it never happened before?

Disagree that this country was built on hate, murder and rape. You must be in the wrong country. This country was built on hard work, sacrifice, initiative and education despite all the hate, murder and rape.
Lots of horrible things happen throughout the worlds History. Not just in the US. The US has always been closest, not perfect, to keeping the balance of good people fighting for equal rights over those promoting hate and discrimination. Still obvious we have a long way to go and maybe an impossible endeavor.

It’s sad that you’re stuck on the surface (Trump) instead of the soil he came out of (The System). Once you understand world history, nothing he’s doing surprises me. He represents the voices inside of more than half this country. Especially his supporters who are filled with the same ignorance. The problem is you take any response to a broad yet popular post YOU CREATED, and direct all that energy into you. It’s an open forum don’t forget that.

Not sure what I disagreed with. If anything I doubled down and described how this very soil created this guy. And why he’s allowed to be a thug and get away with it. And not just get away with it, but he’s going to be the next president again. That’s the real issue. The longer we ignore that, the more trump-etts will continue to appear in different forms of energy.

“Sincere Ignorance and Consciousness Stupidity”

Born in Brooklyn, Raised in Queens, Lives in Maryland. The future is bright, I'm a Knicks fan for life!
Nalod
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USA
2/17/2024  12:23 PM

The 91 indictments are not fabrications bought by political motivations by democrats. These are things he did.
If one can’t see how wrong this all is for someone running to lead our country its a bad sign.
Sad broken human is Trump.
blkexec
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2/17/2024  12:25 PM
I agree with Todd. Need to move this to a political forum because the ignorance is too much and it spreads. I rather see u guys as Knick fans. And when I’m ready to have a political debate I’ll go to the political forum.
Born in Brooklyn, Raised in Queens, Lives in Maryland. The future is bright, I'm a Knicks fan for life!
Nalod
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2/17/2024  12:31 PM
blkexec wrote:I agree with Todd. Need to move this to a political forum because the ignorance is too much and it spreads. I rather see u guys as Knick fans. And when I’m ready to have a political debate I’ll go to the political forum.

Good idea.

OT: Trump Fined 350 million for Fraud

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