Nalod wrote:So what was the issue in TOronto that he was this “Throw in”?
Effort? Work ethic? He inspired to be knick, or in a contract year to get paid? He a dog or just a hungry one?
Once he gets fed, then what? I suppose Leon and the professionals got a read on him.
He is getting minutes and finding his rhythm. Its good!
If he is just a 15 min back up, then what?
Im happy, but have to ask these questions among the faithful. THe professionals have to be accountable for the decisions beyond this seasons.
If we resign him Precious has to play up to the contract so he can be traded if need be.

Knicks gave up IQ, RJ, and a very very early 2nd. Precious leveled out the value of the deal as a young player with potential. Thibs style as a coach is more likely a better fit for Precious game.

newyorknewyork wrote:

Nalod wrote:So what was the issue in TOronto that he was this “Throw in”?
Effort? Work ethic? He inspired to be knick, or in a contract year to get paid? He a dog or just a hungry one?
Once he gets fed, then what? I suppose Leon and the professionals got a read on him.
He is getting minutes and finding his rhythm. Its good!
If he is just a 15 min back up, then what?
Im happy, but have to ask these questions among the faithful. THe professionals have to be accountable for the decisions beyond this seasons.
If we resign him Precious has to play up to the contract so he can be traded if need be.

Knicks gave up IQ, RJ, and a very very early 2nd. Precious leveled out the value of the deal as a young player with potential. Thibs style as a coach is more likely a better fit for Precious game.

I am very happy with his performance as a knick. Question is not homercentric to loving him, but his market value and reputation.
Clearly his is performing great as a knick. He has been given an opportunity and his numbers are higher as a starter. He is an NBA player. His potential? Likely we are seeing it. When he goes back to the bench what is his value/number? Does he see himself as starter and more important what do other teams see him as?
This is for his agent to figure out. This is for Leon and company to figure out.
Leon and Co. were cool, got the need filled before Randle got hurt. Obviously we needed a banger then anyone named Toppin. It was correct to trade OBI. He was drafted at a time Randle was not settled as he became and we took a flyer that he'd blossom to "Amare Like". Good idea, did not execute.
Precious is restricted with a qualifying offer of about $6.5 million. At that price I give I likely give it to him. If he wants to see his market, let him do it as we can match. If we don't offer it, perhaps its a sign we have a price in mind and he can take it or leave it.
Im not sweating Precious returning or not. This FO has proved to exceed fans expectations and earned my respect. They got this.

DLeethal wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Nalod wrote:So what was the issue in TOronto that he was this “Throw in”?
Effort? Work ethic? He inspired to be knick, or in a contract year to get paid? He a dog or just a hungry one?
Once he gets fed, then what? I suppose Leon and the professionals got a read on him.
He is getting minutes and finding his rhythm. Its good!
If he is just a 15 min back up, then what?
Im happy, but have to ask these questions among the faithful. THe professionals have to be accountable for the decisions beyond this seasons.
If we resign him Precious has to play up to the contract so he can be traded if need be.

Knicks gave up IQ, RJ, and a very very early 2nd. Precious leveled out the value of the deal as a young player with potential. Thibs style as a coach is more likely a better fit for Precious game.

Thibs has proven he can do things no other coaches can with offensive rebounders, and offensive rebounding in general. The man created a top 3 offense with a bottom 10 shooting team last year based on offensive rebounding alone. He had Mitch control a whole playoff series with offensive rebounding. And he has Precious playing himself into a career-making payday with it as well.

My point is is it the coach/system or the player?
Thus is the payday here or with other teams?
Toronto had Siakim and Barnes ahead of him so he was relegated to a back up role.
Hey, Miami drafted him so that's a "reference".
What is his worth? What teams are willing to pay him!
Interesting convo about him. Chicken or the egg? LOL
I always root for our guys to succeed but sometimes they got to go to open other doors!
RJ and IQ were big part of our team the last few years. It happens!

DLeethal wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Nalod wrote:So what was the issue in TOronto that he was this “Throw in”?
Effort? Work ethic? He inspired to be knick, or in a contract year to get paid? He a dog or just a hungry one?
Once he gets fed, then what? I suppose Leon and the professionals got a read on him.
He is getting minutes and finding his rhythm. Its good!
If he is just a 15 min back up, then what?
Im happy, but have to ask these questions among the faithful. THe professionals have to be accountable for the decisions beyond this seasons.
If we resign him Precious has to play up to the contract so he can be traded if need be.

Knicks gave up IQ, RJ, and a very very early 2nd. Precious leveled out the value of the deal as a young player with potential. Thibs style as a coach is more likely a better fit for Precious game.

Thibs has proven he can do things no other coaches can with offensive rebounders, and offensive rebounding in general. The man created a top 3 offense with a bottom 10 shooting team last year based on offensive rebounding alone. He had Mitch control a whole playoff series with offensive rebounding. And he has Precious playing himself into a career-making payday with it as well.

Good call

martin wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:I'd offer him a deal similar to what Deuce or Sims got

Well his qualifying is $6.2M. So it’s that or - mostly - let him go?

let me rephrase, I just don't want to disrespect Deuce or Sims by wildly overpaying for someone

after last night's game, I am beginning to change my thoughts. And the more wins we get, the more those thoughts will continue to change. I guess right now i am at the $7-7.5 mil a year, but I have a feeling that number will go up with production+wins

martin wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:5 years, 60m. Structure the contract as best fits the other contracts. I see a lot of undeveloped possibilities here that could make that contract earn out.

1) Hustle. Can’t get the image of him jumping through legs to tie up the loose ball. Dangerous but man that’s good hustle.

2) Rebounding. That’s only gonna get better here. He has real strength that allows him to get position on the block.

3) Wingspan. 6’8 height with a 7’0 wingspan. He’s got really good length for his position.

4) On Ball Defense. He has solid footwork and stays in front of his man pretty well. Generates steals with that wingspan.

5) Willingness to shoot. Ok. Shooting itself needs work. He could use some more coaching on form. But he is a willing shooter and finds the right places from the floor to shoot from. But this is something we can work with.

I’m a fan. I would sign him to a solid long term contract to get the benefits of his development.

I think this is fair.

Plus he is a Bronx kid. Kemba came too late in his career. Home town kids are great for us fans too

VDesai wrote:If he hit the corner 3, he could get Naz Reid money. Without it, id bet he gets 30 pct less.

Somewhere between Naz Reid and Jarred Vanderbilt seems about right

martin wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:5 years, 60m. Structure the contract as best fits the other contracts. I see a lot of undeveloped possibilities here that could make that contract earn out.

1) Hustle. Can’t get the image of him jumping through legs to tie up the loose ball. Dangerous but man that’s good hustle.

2) Rebounding. That’s only gonna get better here. He has real strength that allows him to get position on the block.

3) Wingspan. 6’8 height with a 7’0 wingspan. He’s got really good length for his position.

4) On Ball Defense. He has solid footwork and stays in front of his man pretty well. Generates steals with that wingspan.

5) Willingness to shoot. Ok. Shooting itself needs work. He could use some more coaching on form. But he is a willing shooter and finds the right places from the floor to shoot from. But this is something we can work with.

I’m a fan. I would sign him to a solid long term contract to get the benefits of his development.

I think this is fair.

Thats DDV money.
Im thinking 3 years 21-24 mil with team option year three.
Most likely im trading him at some point. Naz earned his big money, Precious can also.

iHart signed for two years, 16mil and had a better cred coming in. Bit of a templete for me.
Im not hating on him, just being real in my opinion.

If I am “Thinking Anthony Randlolph”, then perhaps I am even more cautious?

Panos wrote:

Nalod wrote:

martin wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:5 years, 60m. Structure the contract as best fits the other contracts. I see a lot of undeveloped possibilities here that could make that contract earn out.

1) Hustle. Can;t get the image of him jumping through legs to tie up the loose ball. Dangerous but man that;s good hustle.

2) Rebounding. That;s only gonna get better here. He has real strength that allows him to get position on the block.

3) Wingspan. 6;8 height with a 7;0 wingspan. Hes got really good length for his position.

4) On Ball Defense. He has solid footwork and stays in front of his man pretty well. Generates steals with that wingspan.

5) Willingness to shoot. Ok. Shooting itself needs work. He could use some more coaching on form. But he is a willing shooter and finds the right places from the floor to shoot from. But this is something we can work with.

I;m a fan. I would sign him to a solid long term contract to get the benefits of his development.

I think this is fair.

Thats DDV money.
Im thinking 3 years 21-24 mil with team option year three.
Most likely im trading him at some point. Naz earned his big money, Precious can also.

iHart signed for two years, 16mil and had a better cred coming in. Bit of a templete for me.
Im not hating on him, just being real in my opinion.

If I am ;Thinking Anthony Randlolph;, then perhaps I am even more cautious?

This is more in line with my expectation.
I don't think he goes from a throw-in to $12m per year after 20 games

same. It's not that I'm against it, it' just that he didn't earn it yet

I think it's fair to ask if he's putting up hollow numbers because the team hasn't had much success with him getting those numbers

SupremeCommander wrote:

Panos wrote:

Nalod wrote:

martin wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:5 years, 60m. Structure the contract as best fits the other contracts. I see a lot of undeveloped possibilities here that could make that contract earn out.

1) Hustle. Can;t get the image of him jumping through legs to tie up the loose ball. Dangerous but man that;s good hustle.

2) Rebounding. That;s only gonna get better here. He has real strength that allows him to get position on the block.

3) Wingspan. 6;8 height with a 7;0 wingspan. Hes got really good length for his position.

4) On Ball Defense. He has solid footwork and stays in front of his man pretty well. Generates steals with that wingspan.

5) Willingness to shoot. Ok. Shooting itself needs work. He could use some more coaching on form. But he is a willing shooter and finds the right places from the floor to shoot from. But this is something we can work with.

I;m a fan. I would sign him to a solid long term contract to get the benefits of his development.

I think this is fair.

Thats DDV money.
Im thinking 3 years 21-24 mil with team option year three.
Most likely im trading him at some point. Naz earned his big money, Precious can also.

iHart signed for two years, 16mil and had a better cred coming in. Bit of a templete for me.
Im not hating on him, just being real in my opinion.

If I am ;Thinking Anthony Randlolph;, then perhaps I am even more cautious?

This is more in line with my expectation.
I don't think he goes from a throw-in to $12m per year after 20 games

same. It's not that I'm against it, it' just that he didn't earn it yet

I think it's fair to ask if he's putting up hollow numbers because the team hasn't had much success with him getting those numbers

Don’t play the role of Mark Cuban negotiating with Brunson pre and then mid season.

What is the potential with Precious? How does he fit with team and coach and philosophy? Does he have a valuable role?

With a player like Precious you do have to project some, that’s just the spot the Knicks find themselves in.

And then if you don’t think he is worth closer to the MLE, know you will be going into a contract situation where you are not just having to discuss $ numbers with his agent, you are also putting yourself into a spot of also competing against every other team that may need the services of a 24yo PF who can play small ball 5, take your all NBA starters minutes for a month at a time and perform admirably, all the while owning an intriguing but under developed 3 point shot.

That’s not worth $10+M a year?

Meanwhile Precious is gonna be all “what does a brother have to do around here” 😅

The difference between an extra $2-3m per over 5 seasons when we are talking <2% of cap?

Nalod wrote:

martin wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:5 years, 60m. Structure the contract as best fits the other contracts. I see a lot of undeveloped possibilities here that could make that contract earn out.

1) Hustle. Can’t get the image of him jumping through legs to tie up the loose ball. Dangerous but man that’s good hustle.

2) Rebounding. That’s only gonna get better here. He has real strength that allows him to get position on the block.

3) Wingspan. 6’8 height with a 7’0 wingspan. He’s got really good length for his position.

4) On Ball Defense. He has solid footwork and stays in front of his man pretty well. Generates steals with that wingspan.

5) Willingness to shoot. Ok. Shooting itself needs work. He could use some more coaching on form. But he is a willing shooter and finds the right places from the floor to shoot from. But this is something we can work with.

I’m a fan. I would sign him to a solid long term contract to get the benefits of his development.

I think this is fair.

Thats DDV money.
Im thinking 3 years 21-24 mil with team option year three.
Most likely im trading him at some point. Naz earned his big money, Precious can also.

iHart signed for two years, 16mil and had a better cred coming in. Bit of a templete for me.
Im not hating on him, just being real in my opinion.

If I am “Thinking Anthony Randlolph”, then perhaps I am even more cautious?

Can't compare bigs and smalls. And DDV money was a good deal for both sides when signed. The fact that it is earning out doesn't deflate the market pricing for next year. 12mm appears to be where role playing bigs end up. Might be buying some of his upside with 5 years. He is 24 and should continue to get stronger over this contract.

I don't think iHart had better credential when he signed with us. Started maybe 2 games. Played 120. That's irrelevant regardless. That contract is 2 years and 1 collective bargaining agreement old. This is a bird rights signing for a team already over the cap.

Here is a list of PF contracts. Want to tell me he is 11m? I'll buy that. Want to make him go earn his contract and match it as an RFA? I bet he gets the MLE from someone. Better off to beat that contract right now for both sides with longer term and lower AAV.

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/contracts/power-forward/