NYKBocker wrote:

DLeethal wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Unless Burks keeps playing poorly, I see him getting the nod over Deuce. Playoff experience and size to defend bigger guards.

I dont believe Deuce will be left out of the playoff rotation altogether though. This is one of the deepest teams Thibs had ever coached. I dont believe he's going to ignore that fact, and bench players who he believes can help in a playoff run.

It seems Burks is in a backup wing role now (less PG experimenting)and Deuce seems to be full Brunson backup. When OG gets back, and Hart slides to full bench role, there's not gonna be much mins for Burks left over. I think Burks will be pretty much out. The real question becomes what gives between Bogs and Precious.

I think Precious has cemented himself as the #1 backup PF. Bogs will be used as a complimentary sniper with defensive specialists around him when he plays. Burks I believe is out of the rotation

This

DLeethal wrote:

TheMTL wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

DLeethal wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Unless Burks keeps playing poorly, I see him getting the nod over Deuce. Playoff experience and size to defend bigger guards.

I dont believe Deuce will be left out of the playoff rotation altogether though. This is one of the deepest teams Thibs had ever coached. I dont believe he's going to ignore that fact, and bench players who he believes can help in a playoff run.

It seems Burks is in a backup wing role now (less PG experimenting)and Deuce seems to be full Brunson backup. When OG gets back, and Hart slides to full bench role, there's not gonna be much mins for Burks left over. I think Burks will be pretty much out. The real question becomes what gives between Bogs and Precious.

I think Precious has cemented himself as the #1 backup PF. Bogs will be used as a complimentary sniper with defensive specialists around him when he plays. Burks I believe is out of the rotation

This

IDK if it's etched in stone. OG or Randle will be staggered with the bench. Along with Mitch back, Bogs seems to fit better than Precious with that group.

I have to tell you guys, I am starting to get that feel that Precious could be a better big solution off the bench than Mitch.

All things being equal (iHart achilles), for the $ and positional flexibility, wouldn't it make better sense to keep Precious than Mitch?

It's a little Knicks-dfraft blasphemous, but wouldn't it make the team better? IDK just thinking out loud

KnickDanger wrote:

martin wrote:

DLeethal wrote:

TheMTL wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

DLeethal wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Unless Burks keeps playing poorly, I see him getting the nod over Deuce. Playoff experience and size to defend bigger guards.

I dont believe Deuce will be left out of the playoff rotation altogether though. This is one of the deepest teams Thibs had ever coached. I dont believe he's going to ignore that fact, and bench players who he believes can help in a playoff run.

It seems Burks is in a backup wing role now (less PG experimenting)and Deuce seems to be full Brunson backup. When OG gets back, and Hart slides to full bench role, there's not gonna be much mins for Burks left over. I think Burks will be pretty much out. The real question becomes what gives between Bogs and Precious.

I think Precious has cemented himself as the #1 backup PF. Bogs will be used as a complimentary sniper with defensive specialists around him when he plays. Burks I believe is out of the rotation

This

IDK if it's etched in stone. OG or Randle will be staggered with the bench. Along with Mitch back, Bogs seems to fit better than Precious with that group.

I have to tell you guys, I am starting to get that feel that Precious could be a better big solution off the bench than Mitch.

All things being equal (iHart achilles), for the $ and positional flexibility, wouldn't it make better sense to keep Precious than Mitch?

It's a little Knicks-dfraft blasphemous, but wouldn't it make the team better? IDK just thinking out loud

Love Mitch, but if you’re making economic and chemistry decisions it’s hard not to see it that way right now.

I do not understand or even have an inkling of how the Knicks can keep all of Mitch, iHart, Precious in an "all-things-being-equal" world.

Knicks are capped at what they can offer iHart this offseason, just a function of salary cap. There are only so many minutes left over after Randle/OG at the PF spot. Only 48 at the C spot.

IMHO, the offense is (potentially?) VASTLY different when iHart is out there over Mitch. January was wild.... Was that a peek at the real world or just a month of good RJ shooting and migraines are around the corner?

Precious makes it such that you have a backup PF and a pretty good small ball 5 who can kinda sorta fake a corner 3point shot? And as far as I can tell, he is about a 1000% better on O than Mitch but not as intimidating defensively?

DLeethal wrote:

martin wrote:

DLeethal wrote:

TheMTL wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

DLeethal wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Unless Burks keeps playing poorly, I see him getting the nod over Deuce. Playoff experience and size to defend bigger guards.

I dont believe Deuce will be left out of the playoff rotation altogether though. This is one of the deepest teams Thibs had ever coached. I dont believe he's going to ignore that fact, and bench players who he believes can help in a playoff run.

It seems Burks is in a backup wing role now (less PG experimenting)and Deuce seems to be full Brunson backup. When OG gets back, and Hart slides to full bench role, there's not gonna be much mins for Burks left over. I think Burks will be pretty much out. The real question becomes what gives between Bogs and Precious.

I think Precious has cemented himself as the #1 backup PF. Bogs will be used as a complimentary sniper with defensive specialists around him when he plays. Burks I believe is out of the rotation

This

IDK if it's etched in stone. OG or Randle will be staggered with the bench. Along with Mitch back, Bogs seems to fit better than Precious with that group.

I have to tell you guys, I am starting to get that feel that Precious could be a better big solution off the bench than Mitch.

All things being equal (iHart achilles), for the $ and positional flexibility, wouldn't it make better sense to keep Precious than Mitch?

It's a little Knicks-dfraft blasphemous, but wouldn't it make the team better? IDK just thinking out loud

It's definitely up for debate this offseason when we have to make a decision whether or not to pay iHart and Precious. But I think they will aim to get their platoon C back by the playoffs with Mitch and iHart and everyone else will have to fall into place around that.

Why is it up for debate? They are both good and they make sense, so you'd want to keep them. I don't know how you convince iHart though.

And to your second point, I think everyone knows Mitch's limitations and strengths and is that good enough to just suggest they want the iHart/Mitch platoon more than the upgrade they can have by moving Mitch and subbing in Precious and whatever else.

As in, Mitch is REALLY good in certain matchups. Maybe Miami and Cleveland. But he is fish out of water with Boston, perhaps Milwaukee, OKC, Denver, etc. And I think the Knicks recognize this.

DLeethal wrote:

martin wrote:

DLeethal wrote:

martin wrote:

DLeethal wrote:

TheMTL wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

DLeethal wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Unless Burks keeps playing poorly, I see him getting the nod over Deuce. Playoff experience and size to defend bigger guards.

I dont believe Deuce will be left out of the playoff rotation altogether though. This is one of the deepest teams Thibs had ever coached. I dont believe he's going to ignore that fact, and bench players who he believes can help in a playoff run.

It seems Burks is in a backup wing role now (less PG experimenting)and Deuce seems to be full Brunson backup. When OG gets back, and Hart slides to full bench role, there's not gonna be much mins for Burks left over. I think Burks will be pretty much out. The real question becomes what gives between Bogs and Precious.

I think Precious has cemented himself as the #1 backup PF. Bogs will be used as a complimentary sniper with defensive specialists around him when he plays. Burks I believe is out of the rotation

This

IDK if it's etched in stone. OG or Randle will be staggered with the bench. Along with Mitch back, Bogs seems to fit better than Precious with that group.

I have to tell you guys, I am starting to get that feel that Precious could be a better big solution off the bench than Mitch.

All things being equal (iHart achilles), for the $ and positional flexibility, wouldn't it make better sense to keep Precious than Mitch?

It's a little Knicks-dfraft blasphemous, but wouldn't it make the team better? IDK just thinking out loud

It's definitely up for debate this offseason when we have to make a decision whether or not to pay iHart and Precious. But I think they will aim to get their platoon C back by the playoffs with Mitch and iHart and everyone else will have to fall into place around that.

Why is it up for debate? They are both good and they make sense, so you'd want to keep them. I don't know how you convince iHart though.

And to your second point, I think everyone knows Mitch's limitations and strengths and is that good enough to just suggest they want the iHart/Mitch platoon more than the upgrade they can have by moving Mitch and subbing in Precious and whatever else.

As in, Mitch is REALLY good in certain matchups. Maybe Miami and Cleveland. But he is fish out of water with Boston, perhaps Milwaukee, OKC, Denver, etc. And I think the Knicks recognize this.

It's hard to envision them paying/keeping/findinig minutes for all 3 of iHart/Precious/Mitch was my point. Randle will be back and eat up 36 mpg at the 4 and I think Thibs likes OG getting some 4 mins. So unless Precious is getting a lot of backup 5 mins his role is dwindled down to nothing.

agreed.

we'll see how Mitch looks when he comes back but the best play might be to trade him if you can get a 1st and keep IHart/Precious who give us more durability and variety.

To piggy back on this Mitch discussion, I know one team that would love to have him which would make them tougher. One team that Mitch has owned. One team that needs a center change in the worse way. Cleveland.

Mitch Rob for D.Mitch?

I believe both teams would be happy with this trade since we having this hypothetical discussion. Would it happen, who knows and who cares. I’ve always enjoyed these level of fantasy fan fare talks.

I agree on how we can afford all these guys. I don’t agree or not ready to agree yet that Mitch is 3rd on our center ranking, if everyone was healthy. And Mitch is a Thibs center. What happens if Mitch learns just a little bit from watching iHart, precious and even sims. Then now Mitch is even more of a beast.

If there was someway to keep 3 of these 4 centers I would rather do that. Definitely don’t need all 4. How you guys ranking these guys? Here’s my ranking, if all was healthy.

1A. iHart
1B. Mitch
2. Precious
3. Sims

I love Precious, but what if he’s more valuable as a trade asset? Look what we got him for and look at his value now. Maybe Precious to Cleveland as a back up center / PF works for them.

I don’t know and I’m all over the place because it’s still an interesting position to be in for Leon Rose and company.

blkexec wrote:Listening to all this Mitch haterism is blasphemy. I’m ashamed of you guys, especially Martin leading the charge. But that’s what open forums are a supposed to be. No hate on the poster or wild ideas. I love it.

To piggy back on this Mitch discussion, I know one team that would love to have him which would make them tougher. One team that Mitch has owned. One team that needs a center change in the worse way. Cleveland.

Mitch Rob for D.Mitch?

I believe both teams would be happy with this trade since we having this hypothetical discussion. Would it happen, who knows and who cares. I’ve always enjoyed these level of fantasy fan fare talks.

I agree on how we can afford all these guys. I don’t agree or not ready to agree yet that Mitch is 3rd on our center ranking, if everyone was healthy. And Mitch is a Thibs center. What happens if Mitch learns just a little bit from watching iHart, precious and even sims. Then now Mitch is even more of a beast.

If there was someway to keep 3 of these 4 centers I would rather do that. Definitely don’t need all 4. How you guys ranking these guys? Here’s my ranking, if all was healthy.

1A. iHart
1B. Mitch
2. Precious
3. Sims

I love Precious, but what if he’s more valuable as a trade asset? Look what we got him for and look at his value now. Maybe Precious to Cleveland as a back up center / PF works for them.

I don’t know and I’m all over the place because it’s still an interesting position to be in for Leon Rose and company.

While Mitch Rob might have Jarrett Allens number, he is really quite good and brings some offense to the line up (16ppg) for Clev and also is quite revered in many conversations. Former all star. Mitch is not on Allens level. Mitch Rob as a back up is a different convo.

EwingsGlass wrote:I’d be remiss if they made a trade including MitchBeast without seeing how he works in a lineup with

Brunson/DDV/OG/Randle/Beast

But, if you are telling me that Robinson is necessary to achieve

Brunson/Spida/OG/Randle/iHart

And you have DDV/jHart/Precious as your bench. Well, I mean, I’d be remiss. But I don’t think you can say no.

Truth is, we have a lot more options than ever.

The Spida thing is no doubt tempting. We'd be remiss if we did not discuss the price to get him.
MitchRob and picks really don't fit where they are and right now. They are doing really well and they need a player that can step in and perhaps advance them?
Then there is the money side of a deal, he makes 34mil next year, then player option for 37 year after. One assumes he opts out/declines that.
But.........we need to send out like 20 mil insalary to make it work. Im not assuming either team has room which I might be "remiss", but thats a deeper dive.

For Clev to trade their best player, how do they get one back that might be a better fit with Garland?
Have to admit the Cavs have a good thing going and other than it being in Clev, he should want to stay. I assume he is all NBA and eligible for a full super max?

Im looking at it from a Clev perspective but thats how trades are done. we know DM wants to come home. BKN can be a player in a trade and Cavs would be remiss to not include them if they are so inclined to pair with Bridges. Talking 3 team type deal I suppose?

back on the money, how do knicks keep its needs together adding a star who we really don't need? DM will demand big money. So will Jalen and Randle in time.
Okoro is playing very well so they don't need OG. Very good defensive wing whose shooting is improved.
Allan is a very good center, better than any of our guys statistically. Don't think they want Mitch unless as a back up.
For this trade to work, your going to have to send 2-3 first round picks, Randle, and perhaps DDV.
In return we get DM and Mobley.

Its rare a team does a big trade and fulfills its potential. That means Mobley gets year two as a knick to get his **** together. meanwhile, Clev is kicking ass with all star and two time all NBA Randle.
"Mobley is soft". Perhaps. question is will he be with Thibs riding his ass and galvanizing his talents to his potential? Why would Clev give up on him? To get better. DDV is an incredible value and might be a good fit off the ball with Garland. Im not sure I agree with all I wrote but its just a "take" on how both teams might see a trade. Clev tilts from Mobley as the next "KG" thinking and moves on.
Did we trade RJ to better fit with Randle, then move Randle half a season later?

Panos wrote:

Rookie wrote:

martin wrote:

Rookie wrote:The Knicks have a very bad history of trading for and signing aging veterans who are past their prime. This trade is a nod to the bad old days. If we had traded Grimes for a player in his prime who filled a bigger need then I wouldn't be bitching. This was a bad trade.

I have to tell you, I am a little confused as to why the Knicks traded Grimes. All things being equal, trading Grimes for Bogs, especially considering age, doesn't make sense, right? That's easy.

So, if the Knicks didn't trade Grimes, they definitely have a different type of Obi/Randle situation with Grimes/DDV, right? And DDV is fitting that starting lineup like a Villanova born and breed Glove. So where are Grimes' minutes gonna come from? Cause DDV is deserving of even more than the 25mpg, right?

Or do we need to relearn that lesson again? Is it - was it - worth it keeping Grimes in that situation? Knowing DDV is playing at historical levels of shooting good at half the price of what Grimes could ask for in contract.

As well, Bogs is easier to move than Grimes moving forward. Grimes contract would be $4M next year, which is both a blessing and a hindrance cause you need to include other big contracts to match him into a bigger trade. You can keep Fournier but he is just dead weight.

Did the Knicks position themselves better for this playoffs as well as their next trade (draft, summer or after summer) than they would have if they kept Grimes?

Tough ask. But that seems like the consideration?

My point is that neither Burks or Bojan fit the profile of players we have either signed or traded for. It fits the profile or moves we were making when Isiah was in Dolan's ear. This new group has had tremendous patience. his feels more like a desperation move

I think I'm ready to call this trade a bust. As far as I'm concerned, I would have been happier letting EF walk and keeping Grimes backing up DDV till a possibly better deal came along. Both these cats were supposed to be offensive sparks, and they have not been. Bojan has been a starter his whole career, so saying he's being asked to do too much is a fallacy. I would totally take a mulligan on that one. And to think, we also gave up 2 seconder rounders for the privilege of losing this trade.

This long road of a season still has enough distance for a few more twists and turns. Having vet depth may pay off yet, particularly with Bogs. You might be right but let's say Mitch and OG return but Randle takes a little longer to get into rhythm upon his return, could Bogs step in late in the season or in the playoffs to lift the to another win or two ? Plus Bogs was obtained to be a contract filler in a deal and be more useful then Evan. Burks has been a disappointment but they picked up Milton. Grimes must have ticked someone off like Obi did the season prior. Let's see what plays out next season as a result of this trade before throwing dirt on it