I ask those same questions and sometime come to the same conclusions as you have. 99% chance this is just Thibs being Thibs again. Same old stupid coach stuck in his ways.

I'd also like to play devils advocate. For years we want our team and coach to develop players instead of being win-only. Was this game not an incredibly good game to have DDV, McBride, Josh (who earlier this year complained about not getting enough touches), iHart, Precious get a full game's worth of touches and minutes so they can get into a groove? So that they can get their "dev" minutes in spite of doing the win-only thing?

It's an incredibly hard balance for a coach. Is he letting Deuce/Hart/DiVo get minutes with the ball in their hands without Brunson on court? Did he just let them all run extra time when they were up big ON PURPOSE? Cause maybe in the future they gonna actually need to be better as players doing exactly what they were not so good at during the game? Where is the leash?

What's the actual use of giving Fournier minutes? Cause we all know he is gone. Same with Malachi. Neither long for this team and will only play during the Break In Case of Emergency minutes. (I submit the Josh Hart knee thing should come into play for substitutions).

Which do you want? Win-only coach? Sometimes dev coach? Play useless guy minutes coach?

Or do we only care about getting to garbage time to get to the Archie trophy minutes? No further development minutes for McBride, DDV etc.

NYStateOfMind wrote:In a seemingly blowout win, the team managed to pull out a small win, yet Thibs overplay all the remaining rotational players. Hart took a beating, Brunson could be out a few games, can't get a damn minute for Jacob again. Truly pathetic effort from some of the team and staff. Praise to DDV, Precious, JB, & both Harts.

Teams get hot, I get it, but it should have never came to this. JB should have been out sooner, along with other remaining rotation players. 25 minutes for Taj & Flynn, zero for Jacob. An earlier point by a poster was maybe he only plays well against in the g-league. Well, they played a g-league team talent tonight, isn't that the exact time to play him at least 5 mins?

VDesai wrote:Malachi has looked decent, but he isn't getting much opportunity beyond his 2nd quarter rotation. With Brunson out last night, they actually brought him in during the final 2 mins to give us another ballhandler out there with Deuce/Hart/DiVo as Memphis was going with the press+trap.

There's just something about leading for 25 for 3 quarters- a bit of complacency last night. My point above is I think you get some of the Fourniers, Flynns and others out there that are actually NBA talents but playing on the periphery and hoping to showcase themselves for a bigger role or a spot somewhere else and I think you get the intensity level up. Anyway poor Brunson could see that the team was flopping around and tried to turn it up and turned his ankle.

Memphis was hitting at a high rate on 3%, but we were also leaving guys wide open. Im sure Thibs gave em earful about what happened.

But in a few weeks all that will matter is it was win no.33

martin wrote:I'm responding to what I think is the same underlying theme below and want to start off by saying I agree with what both of you are saying. ie., why the **** is Thibs not playing other guys - even if those guys are complete rust buckets or GLeague quality? Why is Thibs not playing his scrub guys who may be better scrubs, in fact, than what the Grizz scrubs guys are doing? Why isn't Thibs resting his guys a bit more against Grizz?

I ask those same questions and sometime come to the same conclusions as you have. 99% chance this is just Thibs being Thibs again. Same old stupid coach stuck in his ways.

I'd also like to play devils advocate. For years we want our team and coach to develop players instead of being win-only. Was this game not an incredibly good game to have DDV, McBride, Josh (who earlier this year complained about not getting enough touches), iHart, Precious get a full game's worth of touches and minutes so they can get into a groove? So that they can get their "dev" minutes in spite of doing the win-only thing?

It's an incredibly hard balance for a coach. Is he letting Deuce/Hart/DiVo get minutes with the ball in their hands without Brunson on court? Did he just let them all run extra time when they were up big ON PURPOSE? Cause maybe in the future they gonna actually need to be better as players doing exactly what they were not so good at during the game? Where is the leash?

What's the actual use of giving Fournier minutes? Cause we all know he is gone. Same with Malachi. Neither long for this team and will only play during the Break In Case of Emergency minutes. (I submit the Josh Hart knee thing should come into play for substitutions).

Which do you want? Win-only coach? Sometimes dev coach? Play useless guy minutes coach?

Or do we only care about getting to garbage time to get to the Archie trophy minutes? No further development minutes for McBride, DDV etc.

NYStateOfMind wrote:In a seemingly blowout win, the team managed to pull out a small win, yet Thibs overplay all the remaining rotational players. Hart took a beating, Brunson could be out a few games, can't get a damn minute for Jacob again. Truly pathetic effort from some of the team and staff. Praise to DDV, Precious, JB, & both Harts.

Teams get hot, I get it, but it should have never came to this. JB should have been out sooner, along with other remaining rotation players. 25 minutes for Taj & Flynn, zero for Jacob. An earlier point by a poster was maybe he only plays well against in the g-league. Well, they played a g-league team talent tonight, isn't that the exact time to play him at least 5 mins?

VDesai wrote:Malachi has looked decent, but he isn't getting much opportunity beyond his 2nd quarter rotation. With Brunson out last night, they actually brought him in during the final 2 mins to give us another ballhandler out there with Deuce/Hart/DiVo as Memphis was going with the press+trap.

There's just something about leading for 25 for 3 quarters- a bit of complacency last night. My point above is I think you get some of the Fourniers, Flynns and others out there that are actually NBA talents but playing on the periphery and hoping to showcase themselves for a bigger role or a spot somewhere else and I think you get the intensity level up. Anyway poor Brunson could see that the team was flopping around and tried to turn it up and turned his ankle.

Memphis was hitting at a high rate on 3%, but we were also leaving guys wide open. Im sure Thibs gave em earful about what happened.

But in a few weeks all that will matter is it was win no.33

Play Devil's advocate again. I agree with the win always, stay focused mentality Thibs is bringing. Its a long season and 5 starters are out and your guys have been playing 40 mins a night. There's a big picture here and context - some flexibility in the process is important if it ultimately helps the big picture goal.

martin wrote:

VDesai wrote:

martin wrote:I'm responding to what I think is the same underlying theme below and want to start off by saying I agree with what both of you are saying. ie., why the **** is Thibs not playing other guys - even if those guys are complete rust buckets or GLeague quality? Why is Thibs not playing his scrub guys who may be better scrubs, in fact, than what the Grizz scrubs guys are doing? Why isn't Thibs resting his guys a bit more against Grizz?

I ask those same questions and sometime come to the same conclusions as you have. 99% chance this is just Thibs being Thibs again. Same old stupid coach stuck in his ways.

I'd also like to play devils advocate. For years we want our team and coach to develop players instead of being win-only. Was this game not an incredibly good game to have DDV, McBride, Josh (who earlier this year complained about not getting enough touches), iHart, Precious get a full game's worth of touches and minutes so they can get into a groove? So that they can get their "dev" minutes in spite of doing the win-only thing?

It's an incredibly hard balance for a coach. Is he letting Deuce/Hart/DiVo get minutes with the ball in their hands without Brunson on court? Did he just let them all run extra time when they were up big ON PURPOSE? Cause maybe in the future they gonna actually need to be better as players doing exactly what they were not so good at during the game? Where is the leash?

What's the actual use of giving Fournier minutes? Cause we all know he is gone. Same with Malachi. Neither long for this team and will only play during the Break In Case of Emergency minutes. (I submit the Josh Hart knee thing should come into play for substitutions).

Which do you want? Win-only coach? Sometimes dev coach? Play useless guy minutes coach?

Or do we only care about getting to garbage time to get to the Archie trophy minutes? No further development minutes for McBride, DDV etc.

NYStateOfMind wrote:In a seemingly blowout win, the team managed to pull out a small win, yet Thibs overplay all the remaining rotational players. Hart took a beating, Brunson could be out a few games, can't get a damn minute for Jacob again. Truly pathetic effort from some of the team and staff. Praise to DDV, Precious, JB, & both Harts.

Teams get hot, I get it, but it should have never came to this. JB should have been out sooner, along with other remaining rotation players. 25 minutes for Taj & Flynn, zero for Jacob. An earlier point by a poster was maybe he only plays well against in the g-league. Well, they played a g-league team talent tonight, isn't that the exact time to play him at least 5 mins?

VDesai wrote:Malachi has looked decent, but he isn't getting much opportunity beyond his 2nd quarter rotation. With Brunson out last night, they actually brought him in during the final 2 mins to give us another ballhandler out there with Deuce/Hart/DiVo as Memphis was going with the press+trap.

There's just something about leading for 25 for 3 quarters- a bit of complacency last night. My point above is I think you get some of the Fourniers, Flynns and others out there that are actually NBA talents but playing on the periphery and hoping to showcase themselves for a bigger role or a spot somewhere else and I think you get the intensity level up. Anyway poor Brunson could see that the team was flopping around and tried to turn it up and turned his ankle.

Memphis was hitting at a high rate on 3%, but we were also leaving guys wide open. Im sure Thibs gave em earful about what happened.

But in a few weeks all that will matter is it was win no.33

Play Devil's advocate again. I agree with the win always, stay focused mentality Thibs is bringing. Its a long season and 5 starters are out and your guys have been playing 40 mins a night. There's a big picture here and context - some flexibility in the process is important if it ultimately helps the big picture goal.

100% agreed

It's a hard balance for a coach. Coach has to get team to win the winnable games too.

You trust Jacob and Fournier to get you over that line or would you play DDV/Josh/McBride an extra 5+ minutes

Weigh those options if the Jacob/Fourier combo tanks immediately, at even worse rate than the current guys who got those minutes.

It was 4 point game in last 2 minutes? Are you playing Jacob/Fourier/Flynn or DDV/Josh/McBride in hindsight from a pure talent perspective?

With a 23 point lead going into the 4th quarter I probably wouldnt have started the frame with Brunson and a couple of others. If it got hairy I totally get the desire to bring them back. What was awkward about last night was the starters were the culprits. They are the ones who lost focused/turned it down a notch defensively. And I can't say I don't understand it - they were beating these guys by more than 20 for 3 straight quarters and have played A LOT of minutes lately.

Ultimately Thibs will rail on them for not being smart about clock management and defensive effort and it will be merited, but some of it needs to be a look within about the situation and how it was being managed.

Either way super awkward game, super awkward injury situation, probably a number of unhappy campers about a lot of things, but still a Win nonetheless.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://www.twitter.com/CynicalNYK/status/1755305784328548484

Every team in every situation would answer it in the same manor: you don’t ever coach, play or think about injuries that way.

Or Jalen Brown, literally having the biggest contract in the history of the NBA, would not even whiff the dunk contest.

Nor would any player play in the All star game or Olympics, or Rucker's park, or even need to practice heavily cause coach should cut back on minutes cause of potential injury.

You are being obtuse to spite reality.

Since Jan 1, DDV has averaged 28 minutes, Josh at 31, iHart 32. Not a ton quite honestly.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/traditional?dir=-1&sort=PTS&DateFrom=01%2F01%2F2024&TeamID=1610612752

You are overthinking this.

Our dudes won the game that they needed to. All hell would have broken loose if they lost. Consider the downside of that.

NYStateOfMind wrote:The team was flat in 2 consecutive 2nd halves. I'm not saying Jacob is the savior, however, Flynn, Taj, or God forbid EF are not here for the long haul. Jacob is an unknown, unlike his brother, he doesn't just hang in the corner. He actually can drive from time to time, but more importantly, plays defense. So, maybe you don't trust him during the Lakers game, but there was no reason not to let him shine for a 5-10 min period during the g-league Grizzlies game during that 18-1 swing. Was he going to make that stretch worse? lol

If Thibs doesn't trust him with a 28 point lead, when we are short rotation fighters, then leave him in the g-league to get better. Not rust on the bench, which can crush your confidence when you see Taj & Malachi get the call.

5+ minutes when you are tired, those are the highest minutes that lead to unneeded injuries when you are gassed. Hart walked liked Bambi on 2 or 3 consecutive plays after crawling back to his feet. When he did get up, he wasn't attacking on defense, just trying to survive the game.

The question I ask you, is that win and 5 extra minutes of those core guys worth the injury and season goal?

P.S. 1 It wasn't a call from me, to have Jacob in when it got down to 4 pts, well before to help avoid or lessen the collapse.
P.S. 2 EF is never the answer to most questions.

Just meant that you came up with a scenario that coaches typically do not contemplate, cause they realistically know injuries happen at any second, in any circumstance. So you really can't answer that.

And I don't mean to turn your question into anything else, but it's like when the prosecutor in My Cousin Vinnie asks Marisa Tomei a car question to get a feel for her background and expertise level, and it's really a trick question.

Is a win (with the extra 5 minutes) worth Jalen having a season ending injury? Of course not. After that, if you healthy, you play.

NYStateOfMind wrote:You are being condescending, rude, and that type of talk with what you think is clever use of verbiage, is not warranted nor should be acceptable on any platform. Please stop your holier than thou ego and show mutual respect to all. Using words like nonsense & obtuse, please grow up. I don't appreciate that environment and disrespect, especially after I just past 10 years here as a member.

martin wrote:It’s both a rhetorical and nonsensical question.

Every team in every situation would answer it in the same manor: you don’t ever coach, play or think about injuries that way.

Or Jalen Brown, literally having the biggest contract in the history of the NBA, would not even whiff the dunk contest.

Nor would any player play in the All star game or Olympics, or Rucker's park, or even need to practice heavily cause coach should cut back on minutes cause of potential injury.

You are being obtuse to spite reality.

Since Jan 1, DDV has averaged 28 minutes, Josh at 31, iHart 32. Not a ton quite honestly.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/traditional?dir=-1&sort=PTS&DateFrom=01%2F01%2F2024&TeamID=1610612752

You are overthinking this.

Our dudes won the game that they needed to. All hell would have broken loose if they lost. Consider the downside of that.

NYStateOfMind wrote:The team was flat in 2 consecutive 2nd halves. I'm not saying Jacob is the savior, however, Flynn, Taj, or God forbid EF are not here for the long haul. Jacob is an unknown, unlike his brother, he doesn't just hang in the corner. He actually can drive from time to time, but more importantly, plays defense. So, maybe you don't trust him during the Lakers game, but there was no reason not to let him shine for a 5-10 min period during the g-league Grizzlies game during that 18-1 swing. Was he going to make that stretch worse? lol

If Thibs doesn't trust him with a 28 point lead, when we are short rotation fighters, then leave him in the g-league to get better. Not rust on the bench, which can crush your confidence when you see Taj & Malachi get the call.

5+ minutes when you are tired, those are the highest minutes that lead to unneeded injuries when you are gassed. Hart walked liked Bambi on 2 or 3 consecutive plays after crawling back to his feet. When he did get up, he wasn't attacking on defense, just trying to survive the game.

The question I ask you, is that win and 5 extra minutes of those core guys worth the injury and season goal?

P.S. 1 It wasn't a call from me, to have Jacob in when it got down to 4 pts, well before to help avoid or lessen the collapse.
P.S. 2 EF is never the answer to most questions.