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Is DiVincenzo moving towards untouchable?
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newyorknewyork
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1/31/2024  5:04 PM
Knixkik wrote:
martin wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
Nalod wrote:DDV was the best player on that Villinova team. THat his NBA career has not looked like this until now is one of mystery.
I get the ACL derailed him a bit but the streaky thing we saw to start the season was his thing. Other than a little soft going to the rim this kid looks amazing. Love that he is trying to up that and attempt the dunks. Thibs dont mind when players do that. The get to the line or our guys get offnesive rebounds.

Is he “untouchable”? At this level of play he is a massive trade chip if need be for a big fish.
With three starters out he is “Next manning up” so its wonderful.

The massive trade chip for a star is what concerns me. How good does that player have to be to break up the Villanova boys, which collectively have become the culture change in this team? I don’t know if D Mitchell does it. It has to be Doncic, Embiid, Giannis level, and those players are unlikely to shake free. If Mitchell wants out, Cavs will see DDV as the ideal SG alongside Garland. Trading DDV the player in this hypothetical trade makes sense. But we know this goes beyond just his play.

Not gonna need to. Its only a matter of time for Mikal to force his way here. My guess is this coming offseason is when he tells the agent to make the play.

There is no way he doesn't want to be apart of what's going on here with all his boys together having the time of their lives. Witnessed first hand that the Nets are second fiddle and he is being left behind while his boys live it up. With dreams of winning the NBA chip together as they won the National Championship together.

Nets don't have the assets to build anything around Mikal by the time he becomes a FA. Trading him to the Knicks an collecting the draft capital and using the cap space for a DLO, Miles, Wagner combination. Will have them in a better overall space than tryna force it with Mikal.

+1000000000000000000000000000

Mikal would be amazing. Not sure what leverage he has though to demand out and specifically to the Knicks. He would probably need to be closer to the end of his deal right ?

Right now he has not leverage. And Nets aren't going to move him at the deadline with them not owning the rights to their lotto pick. Its just a better play for the Nets. They don't have the assets to build anything around him before he becomes a FA. They don't have the rights to their lotto pick, they don't have a ton of cap space. Projected $19mil in cap space next season which will probably be used to bring DLO back.

They are on pace to be a lottery team again next season. The smarter play is to move him for the draft capital for a long term rebuild before he gets his leverage. A team like the Thunder also has the draft capital to pursue a Mikal though. So the main hope is that they would be somewhat scared off of the idea of him not sticking with them long term thus not willing to offer the amount of draft capital that the Knicks would.

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martin
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1/31/2024  5:06 PM
Knixkik wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
nycericanguy wrote:CLE is a team that would want him, but most teams trading a star are rebuilding and want picks.

ultimately if CLE wanted him then you gotta do that trade to get DM. DDV's role here would be greatly reduced anyway if we had DM.

But that's an interesting development is that DDV + Grimes + 2-3 picks could be a good offer for DM at this point.

DDV wouldn’t start anymore but I bet he would still see all of the minutes he can handle off the bench if we held onto him.

As Martin and I discussed in the other thread. Knicks aren't going to move DDV in a Spida trade. That's def who Cavs would want. But DDV is one of Brunsons best friends. Brunson is currently our franchise player. Knicks will need to use the draft capital for a 3rd team to secure Cavs a proven player.

I hope so.

Why would the Knicks trade this contract and player for anyone? It's just bonkers valuable and the upgrade difference for Spida, especially when you consider cost (assets and contract $), is literally not work it.

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martin
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1/31/2024  5:07 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
martin wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
Nalod wrote:DDV was the best player on that Villinova team. THat his NBA career has not looked like this until now is one of mystery.
I get the ACL derailed him a bit but the streaky thing we saw to start the season was his thing. Other than a little soft going to the rim this kid looks amazing. Love that he is trying to up that and attempt the dunks. Thibs dont mind when players do that. The get to the line or our guys get offnesive rebounds.

Is he “untouchable”? At this level of play he is a massive trade chip if need be for a big fish.
With three starters out he is “Next manning up” so its wonderful.

The massive trade chip for a star is what concerns me. How good does that player have to be to break up the Villanova boys, which collectively have become the culture change in this team? I don’t know if D Mitchell does it. It has to be Doncic, Embiid, Giannis level, and those players are unlikely to shake free. If Mitchell wants out, Cavs will see DDV as the ideal SG alongside Garland. Trading DDV the player in this hypothetical trade makes sense. But we know this goes beyond just his play.

Not gonna need to. Its only a matter of time for Mikal to force his way here. My guess is this coming offseason is when he tells the agent to make the play.

There is no way he doesn't want to be apart of what's going on here with all his boys together having the time of their lives. Witnessed first hand that the Nets are second fiddle and he is being left behind while his boys live it up. With dreams of winning the NBA chip together as they won the National Championship together.

Nets don't have the assets to build anything around Mikal by the time he becomes a FA. Trading him to the Knicks an collecting the draft capital and using the cap space for a DLO, Miles, Wagner combination. Will have them in a better overall space than tryna force it with Mikal.

+1000000000000000000000000000

Mikal would be amazing. Not sure what leverage he has though to demand out and specifically to the Knicks. He would probably need to be closer to the end of his deal right ?

Right now he has not leverage. And Nets aren't going to move him at the deadline with them not owning the rights to their lotto pick. Its just a better play for the Nets. They don't have the assets to build anything around him before he becomes a FA. They don't have the rights to their lotto pick, they don't have a ton of cap space. Projected $19mil in cap space next season which will probably be used to bring DLO back.

They are on pace to be a lottery team again next season. The smarter play is to move him for the draft capital for a long term rebuild before he gets his leverage. A team like the Thunder also has the draft capital to pursue a Mikal though. So the main hope is that they would be somewhat scared off of the idea of him not sticking with them long term thus not willing to offer the amount of draft capital that the Knicks would.

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ramtour420
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1/31/2024  5:49 PM
Honestly, imagine if DDV was our trading target. With the shooting and the uptempo and the steals. He is like top 3 shooter in the NBA right now. We would be saying that he could be the final piece, our Championship SG. Think about it
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martin
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1/31/2024  6:51 PM    LAST EDITED: 1/31/2024  6:52 PM
ramtour420 wrote:Honestly, imagine if DDV was our trading target. With the shooting and the uptempo and the steals. He is like top 3 shooter in the NBA right now. We would be saying that he could be the final piece, our Championship SG. Think about it

We don’t even have to cause it’s literally the real life but without the needing to trade for him part LOL

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newyorknewyork
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1/31/2024  7:05 PM
martin wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
martin wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
Nalod wrote:DDV was the best player on that Villinova team. THat his NBA career has not looked like this until now is one of mystery.
I get the ACL derailed him a bit but the streaky thing we saw to start the season was his thing. Other than a little soft going to the rim this kid looks amazing. Love that he is trying to up that and attempt the dunks. Thibs dont mind when players do that. The get to the line or our guys get offnesive rebounds.

Is he “untouchable”? At this level of play he is a massive trade chip if need be for a big fish.
With three starters out he is “Next manning up” so its wonderful.

The massive trade chip for a star is what concerns me. How good does that player have to be to break up the Villanova boys, which collectively have become the culture change in this team? I don’t know if D Mitchell does it. It has to be Doncic, Embiid, Giannis level, and those players are unlikely to shake free. If Mitchell wants out, Cavs will see DDV as the ideal SG alongside Garland. Trading DDV the player in this hypothetical trade makes sense. But we know this goes beyond just his play.

Not gonna need to. Its only a matter of time for Mikal to force his way here. My guess is this coming offseason is when he tells the agent to make the play.

There is no way he doesn't want to be apart of what's going on here with all his boys together having the time of their lives. Witnessed first hand that the Nets are second fiddle and he is being left behind while his boys live it up. With dreams of winning the NBA chip together as they won the National Championship together.

Nets don't have the assets to build anything around Mikal by the time he becomes a FA. Trading him to the Knicks an collecting the draft capital and using the cap space for a DLO, Miles, Wagner combination. Will have them in a better overall space than tryna force it with Mikal.

+1000000000000000000000000000

Mikal would be amazing. Not sure what leverage he has though to demand out and specifically to the Knicks. He would probably need to be closer to the end of his deal right ?

Right now he has not leverage. And Nets aren't going to move him at the deadline with them not owning the rights to their lotto pick. Its just a better play for the Nets. They don't have the assets to build anything around him before he becomes a FA. They don't have the rights to their lotto pick, they don't have a ton of cap space. Projected $19mil in cap space next season which will probably be used to bring DLO back.

They are on pace to be a lottery team again next season. The smarter play is to move him for the draft capital for a long term rebuild before he gets his leverage. A team like the Thunder also has the draft capital to pursue a Mikal though. So the main hope is that they would be somewhat scared off of the idea of him not sticking with them long term thus not willing to offer the amount of draft capital that the Knicks would.

Now you are talking my language and I love it! I need to buy you a drink

You just used it on the wrong player . Mikal is more likely and has more incentive to force the issue to be with his Nova crew than Spida imo.

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martin
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2/1/2024  2:55 PM
Solid

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jskinny35
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2/1/2024  3:17 PM
DLeethal wrote:He's untouchable outside of a trade for Donovan Mitchell or something. Not sure we are eyeing a trade like that anymore though. I don't see anything else where he would be included, right now he's locked down the starting SG position.

I would not trade DDV for DM even though Mitchell is clearly a much much better player overall. I think DDV is the perfect fit and I would hold off on upgrading the backcourt as he seems to be getting better and better. He also plays better defense and since Brunson is kinda small - think our backcourt defense would regress with DM next to Brunson. If the front office was shrewd enough to recognize his fit here - I sure hope they don't flip him quickly for DM.
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2/1/2024  3:34 PM
its tough to tell.
DD was .378 shooter from 3 at Nova.
He's .375 as a pro. Thing is
he was .397 last year over 71 games
and .426 this year over 48 games.

Is that an upward trend? Or an outlier?

Eye test tells me he's a good basketball player. High IQ, good chemistry and consummate team player. He's in a position to succeed and he's showing out. Last couple of games have been nuts.

I think if you lump DD into a basket of changes from last year you can see a real vision here with chemistry, fit and team building. Some of it is always a little luck but damn how much better to do look after these changes?

Out: RJ/IQ/Obi
In: OG/DD/Precious

Its just much more a Thibs team. Tougher, bigger, more physical, more athletic and the shooting has been better as well (will see how sustainable DD's % is)

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
nycericanguy
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2/1/2024  3:44 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/1/2024  3:46 PM
jskinny35 wrote:
DLeethal wrote:He's untouchable outside of a trade for Donovan Mitchell or something. Not sure we are eyeing a trade like that anymore though. I don't see anything else where he would be included, right now he's locked down the starting SG position.

I would not trade DDV for DM even though Mitchell is clearly a much much better player overall. I think DDV is the perfect fit and I would hold off on upgrading the backcourt as he seems to be getting better and better. He also plays better defense and since Brunson is kinda small - think our backcourt defense would regress with DM next to Brunson. If the front office was shrewd enough to recognize his fit here - I sure hope they don't flip him quickly for DM.

DDV for whatever reason only plays 24mpg, and maybe b/c that's his best role. This was good at putting guys in their best position to succeed like Obi and IQ.

So i'd gladly trade him for a guy that can produce for 36mpg and is just flat out much better.
nycericanguy
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2/1/2024  3:45 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/1/2024  3:45 PM
fishmike wrote:its tough to tell.
DD was .378 shooter from 3 at Nova.
He's .375 as a pro. Thing is
he was .397 last year over 71 games
and .426 this year over 48 games.

Is that an upward trend? Or an outlier?

Eye test tells me he's a good basketball player. High IQ, good chemistry and consummate team player. He's in a position to succeed and he's showing out. Last couple of games have been nuts.

I think if you lump DD into a basket of changes from last year you can see a real vision here with chemistry, fit and team building. Some of it is always a little luck but damn how much better to do look after these changes?

Out: RJ/IQ/Obi
In: OG/DD/Precious

Its just much more a Thibs team. Tougher, bigger, more physical, more athletic and the shooting has been better as well (will see how sustainable DD's % is)

last 2 years, and the way he gets his shots off with ease from anywhere tells me it's just him getting better and better. The way he's shot the 3 ball the last 2 years and the insane volume he's had this year doesn't seem like it could be a fluke.

Same for Dejounte Murry, he's just flat out gotten much better as a 3pt shooter.
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2/1/2024  8:04 PM
DiVincenzo might, yes, be one of those guys who is best at 24 minutes for various reasons. As a sixth man, he'd be one of the best, on a cheap contract. And, he's played like a starter recently. There are, sure, better players but DiVincenzo, assuming he stays healthy, is a good deal, and if he's on the bench, your starters are pretty good :)
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2/1/2024  10:15 PM
DD is playing well and is also one of Brunson's boys...he isn't going anywhere unless he's part of some blockbuster trade.

DD is one of those missing pieces players for a contending team. I saw him as a 6th MOTY type player when we got him, but he's been great as a starter, and Brunson trusts him.

He was an excellent pickup when he signed him...Now it's looking like he's a great one.

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martin
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2/2/2024  12:50 AM
NumberTwoPencil wrote:DiVincenzo might, yes, be one of those guys who is best at 24 minutes for various reasons. As a sixth man, he'd be one of the best, on a cheap contract. And, he's played like a starter recently. There are, sure, better players but DiVincenzo, assuming he stays healthy, is a good deal, and if he's on the bench, your starters are pretty good :)

NumberTwoPencil has not been around in a while. Good to check back in

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Nalod
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2/2/2024  10:04 AM
From what Im reading it seems his year with Kerr set him loose and he quickly earned his freedoms here. As a younger player in Milwaukee with Bud defense was important and he could not be “the jordan of Deleware” as that roster was constructed.
We saw his rough start this year but he shot thru it. Confidence in himself and by coaches. Kerr might have had a part in this.
Thibs set him loose. Thibs has changed right? LOL……..

I think there is no doubt he can do it all but for 30 plus minute over a long stretch/season? ITs a good question.
Remains to be seen. Lets put it in real terms, after his preseason he did not get the starting job. It took Grimes ineffectiveness to open that door for him.

Untouchable? Did he take less money to find a “home” for a few years and play with is bud’s and we are seeing this tight group collectively raise the output? If so, he is “untouchable”. Plug and play he is a great trade chip. Other GM’s recognize chemistry more than fans do. Im enjoying “the big ragu” career getting back on track to his draft status. Appreciate what Kerr might have done for him getting him to open his game out.
martin
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2/2/2024  9:36 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/2/2024  9:36 PM
Signed for 3 more years ay $12m, that is amazeballs. And he plays defense

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HofstraBBall
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2/2/2024  9:52 PM
martin wrote:Signed for 3 more years ay $12m, that is amazeballs. And he plays defense

Let's add the number 6!

Especially since Devo is only good at 25 mpg.

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martin
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2/3/2024  10:41 AM
HofstraBBall wrote:
martin wrote:Signed for 3 more years ay $12m, that is amazeballs. And he plays defense

Let's add the number 6!

Especially since Devo is only good at 25 mpg.

We got the Grimes and McDeuce

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2/7/2024  10:47 AM    LAST EDITED: 2/7/2024  10:47 AM
Donte has become such a revelation. Where would we be without him. He’s lighting it up plus doing the little things. Proving to be a high level starter. Not a lot of guys in the league we would replace him with.
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2/7/2024  10:51 AM
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