martin wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:another good thing about DJM is ATL already has two firsts in this draft, so they'd likely want picks in '25 and '27 since they traded their own those years, where we could offer the MIL 1st and the DET 1st and throw in the 2nd rounder we have this year or another future 2nd. or even the protected WSH pick.

that would allow us to maybe actually draft two players this draft. A guy like Da Silva for instance.

we are going to need cheap young players.

I'd do this trade.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://www.twitter.com/TheKnicksRecap/status/1743275977088590118

The problem is I really want Murray but no.

Hawks are getting out of 4 year extension that rises to over $30m I believe because bulk going back to themmis Fournier expiring.

I would top out at Grimes and 1 unprotected and a few 2nds,or take Grimes out and go with 1 unprotected, 1 protected and a few seconds. Grime’s basically equivalent of a heavily protected 1.

LivingLegend wrote:

martin wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:another good thing about DJM is ATL already has two firsts in this draft, so they'd likely want picks in '25 and '27 since they traded their own those years, where we could offer the MIL 1st and the DET 1st and throw in the 2nd rounder we have this year or another future 2nd. or even the protected WSH pick.

that would allow us to maybe actually draft two players this draft. A guy like Da Silva for instance.

we are going to need cheap young players.

I'd do this trade.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://www.twitter.com/TheKnicksRecap/status/1743275977088590118

The problem is I really want Murray but no.

Hawks are getting out of 4 year extension that rises to over $30m I believe because bulk going back to themmis Fournier expiring.

I would top out at Grimes and 1 unprotected and a few 2nds,or take Grimes out and go with 1 unprotected, 1 protected and a few seconds. Grime’s basically equivalent of a heavily protected 1.

Do you see Murray's contract as a bad contract? That 30mm seems like a bargain, no?

EwingsGlass wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:I feel like its gonna take 5 firsts to get Mitchell. I would much rather trade 3 for Dejounte. I think he "plays the right way" and I think he'd fit right in with the rest of the guys on this roster that play similarly

The Knicks are gonna have to resign OG. They have to push their chips in now IMO....

I’ve been watching Murray clips and checking his shot charts. He’s a really good fit next to Brunson from the sense of the portion of the court they each use. Almost exact mirror images from the left (Brunson) and right (Murray).

Now, I love Grimes and see him developing, but also see him as the kind of player Landry Fields would covet. So, I think including Grimes and Bey makes sense also. I’d include Sims mostly because I don’t think he is going to get much PT at this point and Achiuwa is the better “project”.

Fournier
Grimes
Sims
2024 Knicks
2024 Dallas
2024 Wash (Protected)
2024 Detroit (Protected)
2025 Bucks (Protected)

For

Murray
Bey

Technical 5 “1st Rd” picks to let Fields save a little face, but when it comes down to it, it will be 4 2nds and 3 late 1sts.

Brunson/DDV/McBride/Flynn
Murray/Hart
Anunoby/Bey
Randle/Achiuwa
Robinson/Hart

Pretty much spreads the floor as much as you can in a 4-1 offense with Randle and OG in their favored corners, Brunson and Murray at the top left and right and your center working the paint.

With it unlikely to see Mitchell anytime soon, Murray is the next best, if not better option for this team.

I’m all in here and would even consider adding more assets (Rokas, for example) to get this done.

way too much and there aren't any minutes here for Bey.

DJ is a 30+mpg guy by himself.

Grimes + 2 1sts is fair.

I think Bey will find minutes. Basically grabs Grimes minutes but with better positional size. Same concept as the OG trade.

I also think the value of those picks is illusory. I don’t see any of those picks conveying better than 20.

I’d pull that trigger but if they can get it for less, all the better.

If Bey is taking Grimes 18mpg that literally leaves ZERO for DJM.

The idea is to swap Grimes for DJM and have DJM take those 18-20mpg, plus the 10 or so that Miles plays right now, and maybe you cut Hart's minutes by 2 or so to get DJM to around 30-32mpg.

But there would be absolutely ZERO minutes for Bey.

IQ only played 24mpg here because of the logjam, DJM isnt going to come here to play 24mpg.

The minutes allocation is not as drastic as you make it sound. Mostly cause I relegated McBride back to the bench. I think Anunoby is going to be in foul trouble quite a bit. I think That the DDV/Hart combination will end up going over that 18 mins regularly. I think my sheet fundamentally is different from how Thibs runs his rotations, but you could drop Achiuwa out of that rotation as needed and hand out those extra minutes. Its just math and competitive minutes.

Brunson 30 / DDV 20
Murray 30 / Hart 20
Anunoby 30 / Bey 20
Randle 36 / Achiwua 6
Robinson 24 / Hart 24

I am kind of surprised on the pushback on Bey across the board. We might just see that guy differently. I liked him as a prospect, in Detroit and still.

Maybe I’m missing something or adding wrong - there are only 240 total minutes in a game (5 players * 48 min = 240) but your #s add to 330. Am I adding wrong?

BigDaddyG wrote:

Rookie wrote:

martin wrote:

Rookie wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Rookie wrote:This makes it harder to incentivize Atlanta to do a trade

The Atlanta Hawks signed Dejounte Murray to a four-year, $120 million extension in July. Included in the extension is a 15% trade bonus, worth $13 million at the moment. The Hawks would be responsible for paying the bonus (spread evenly over four seasons, including 2023-24) if they traded Murray. The trade bonus can be negotiated to a lower number. Murray is trade eligible starting on Jan. 9. – via Bobby Marks @ ESPN

This just means Murray has even more leverage in picking where he wants to.

So you are saying he is willing to walk away from 13M to play for the team of his choice? Is he really unhappy in Atlanta. I haven t seen where he is asking for a trade

You won't, just his agent.

You aren't looking at the $13M correctly. He'll get some if not a majority of that money, somehow. It's the fact that he can use it as leverage to get to where he wants to if the circumstance presents itself. That's the important part

a few points. Murray's salary jumps to 25.5M next season and escalates every year. He has been unable to coexist on a team with Trae Young that was trying to build around the pairing. Trade rumors are only speculation due to Atlantas poor start to the season and playoff hopes being crushed

The eye test. When he is on the court with Trae, he stands around on offense and kind of floats around on defense. He looks like he is sulking when sharing the floor with Trae. Trae subs out around 6min mark and Murray takes over ball handling and is very iso heavy. He is not a good shooter or floor spacer. His attitude has been reported as questionable. NY media will shred this move if the team struggles to integrate Murray successfully. Murray seems to be more of a on man defender than a team defender. His switching looks incoherent much like Randles which would be a bad pairing.

I did not watch the playoff footage but checked some regular season games this season. My opinions are based on his effort in regular season games this season. My conclusion is a hard no on Murray. I don't think he fits alongside Brunson and would be be better on a team in a role like SGA where he can dominate the ball surrounded by role platers

Another point: His on man defense has dropped off according to a few commentators and his fit as a point of attack defender is questionable.

Thank you both! This is good to know. I definitely think we have to protect the current culture and chemistry. SO unless we have some inside skinny on him from agents, former teammates or coaches we should be very cautious

EwingsGlass wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:

martin wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:another good thing about DJM is ATL already has two firsts in this draft, so they'd likely want picks in '25 and '27 since they traded their own those years, where we could offer the MIL 1st and the DET 1st and throw in the 2nd rounder we have this year or another future 2nd. or even the protected WSH pick.

that would allow us to maybe actually draft two players this draft. A guy like Da Silva for instance.

we are going to need cheap young players.

I'd do this trade.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://www.twitter.com/TheKnicksRecap/status/1743275977088590118

The problem is I really want Murray but no.

Hawks are getting out of 4 year extension that rises to over $30m I believe because bulk going back to themmis Fournier expiring.

I would top out at Grimes and 1 unprotected and a few 2nds,or take Grimes out and go with 1 unprotected, 1 protected and a few seconds. Grime’s basically equivalent of a heavily protected 1.

Do you see Murray's contract as a bad contract? That 30mm seems like a bargain, no?

Bargain would depend on how he’s playing at that time but no $ aren’t a problem but heard somewhere yesterday that Knicks regime has been hesitant to take on longer deals via trade (which this would be).

EwingsGlass wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:I feel like its gonna take 5 firsts to get Mitchell. I would much rather trade 3 for Dejounte. I think he "plays the right way" and I think he'd fit right in with the rest of the guys on this roster that play similarly

The Knicks are gonna have to resign OG. They have to push their chips in now IMO....

I’ve been watching Murray clips and checking his shot charts. He’s a really good fit next to Brunson from the sense of the portion of the court they each use. Almost exact mirror images from the left (Brunson) and right (Murray).

Now, I love Grimes and see him developing, but also see him as the kind of player Landry Fields would covet. So, I think including Grimes and Bey makes sense also. I’d include Sims mostly because I don’t think he is going to get much PT at this point and Achiuwa is the better “project”.

Fournier
Grimes
Sims
2024 Knicks
2024 Dallas
2024 Wash (Protected)
2024 Detroit (Protected)
2025 Bucks (Protected)

For

Murray
Bey

Technical 5 “1st Rd” picks to let Fields save a little face, but when it comes down to it, it will be 4 2nds and 3 late 1sts.

Brunson/DDV/McBride/Flynn
Murray/Hart
Anunoby/Bey
Randle/Achiuwa
Robinson/Hart

Pretty much spreads the floor as much as you can in a 4-1 offense with Randle and OG in their favored corners, Brunson and Murray at the top left and right and your center working the paint.

With it unlikely to see Mitchell anytime soon, Murray is the next best, if not better option for this team.

I’m all in here and would even consider adding more assets (Rokas, for example) to get this done.

way too much and there aren't any minutes here for Bey.

DJ is a 30+mpg guy by himself.

Grimes + 2 1sts is fair.

I think Bey will find minutes. Basically grabs Grimes minutes but with better positional size. Same concept as the OG trade.

I also think the value of those picks is illusory. I don’t see any of those picks conveying better than 20.

I’d pull that trigger but if they can get it for less, all the better.

If Bey is taking Grimes 18mpg that literally leaves ZERO for DJM.

The idea is to swap Grimes for DJM and have DJM take those 18-20mpg, plus the 10 or so that Miles plays right now, and maybe you cut Hart's minutes by 2 or so to get DJM to around 30-32mpg.

But there would be absolutely ZERO minutes for Bey.

IQ only played 24mpg here because of the logjam, DJM isnt going to come here to play 24mpg.

The minutes allocation is not as drastic as you make it sound. Mostly cause I relegated McBride back to the bench. I think Anunoby is going to be in foul trouble quite a bit. I think That the DDV/Hart combination will end up going over that 18 mins regularly. I think my sheet fundamentally is different from how Thibs runs his rotations, but you could drop Achiuwa out of that rotation as needed and hand out those extra minutes. Its just math and competitive minutes.

Brunson 30 / DDV 20
Murray 30 / Hart 20
Anunoby 30 / Bey 20
Randle 36 / Achiwua 6
Robinson 24 / Hart 24

I am kind of surprised on the pushback on Bey across the board. We might just see that guy differently. I liked him as a prospect, in Detroit and still.

cutting Brunson, DDV, OG and Harts minutes to barely starter level minutes is about as drastic as you can get.

You think Bey taking minutes from Brunson & OG actually makes us a better team?

this isn't fantasy basketball, no team is going to play their star PG only 30mpg at the expense of Bey.

And OG only 30mpg? again why? that makes us significantly worse.

DDV and Hart's minutes should go UP, DDV has been one of the best floor spacers in the entire league this year. that was the whole point of making a 2 for 1 trade.

LivingLegend wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:I feel like its gonna take 5 firsts to get Mitchell. I would much rather trade 3 for Dejounte. I think he "plays the right way" and I think he'd fit right in with the rest of the guys on this roster that play similarly

The Knicks are gonna have to resign OG. They have to push their chips in now IMO....

I’ve been watching Murray clips and checking his shot charts. He’s a really good fit next to Brunson from the sense of the portion of the court they each use. Almost exact mirror images from the left (Brunson) and right (Murray).

Now, I love Grimes and see him developing, but also see him as the kind of player Landry Fields would covet. So, I think including Grimes and Bey makes sense also. I’d include Sims mostly because I don’t think he is going to get much PT at this point and Achiuwa is the better “project”.

Fournier
Grimes
Sims
2024 Knicks
2024 Dallas
2024 Wash (Protected)
2024 Detroit (Protected)
2025 Bucks (Protected)

For

Murray
Bey

Technical 5 “1st Rd” picks to let Fields save a little face, but when it comes down to it, it will be 4 2nds and 3 late 1sts.

Brunson/DDV/McBride/Flynn
Murray/Hart
Anunoby/Bey
Randle/Achiuwa
Robinson/Hart

Pretty much spreads the floor as much as you can in a 4-1 offense with Randle and OG in their favored corners, Brunson and Murray at the top left and right and your center working the paint.

With it unlikely to see Mitchell anytime soon, Murray is the next best, if not better option for this team.

I’m all in here and would even consider adding more assets (Rokas, for example) to get this done.

way too much and there aren't any minutes here for Bey.

DJ is a 30+mpg guy by himself.

Grimes + 2 1sts is fair.

I think Bey will find minutes. Basically grabs Grimes minutes but with better positional size. Same concept as the OG trade.

I also think the value of those picks is illusory. I don’t see any of those picks conveying better than 20.

I’d pull that trigger but if they can get it for less, all the better.

If Bey is taking Grimes 18mpg that literally leaves ZERO for DJM.

The idea is to swap Grimes for DJM and have DJM take those 18-20mpg, plus the 10 or so that Miles plays right now, and maybe you cut Hart's minutes by 2 or so to get DJM to around 30-32mpg.

But there would be absolutely ZERO minutes for Bey.

IQ only played 24mpg here because of the logjam, DJM isnt going to come here to play 24mpg.

The minutes allocation is not as drastic as you make it sound. Mostly cause I relegated McBride back to the bench. I think Anunoby is going to be in foul trouble quite a bit. I think That the DDV/Hart combination will end up going over that 18 mins regularly. I think my sheet fundamentally is different from how Thibs runs his rotations, but you could drop Achiuwa out of that rotation as needed and hand out those extra minutes. Its just math and competitive minutes.

Brunson 30 / DDV 20
Murray 30 / Hart 20
Anunoby 30 / Bey 20
Randle 36 / Achiwua 6
Robinson 24 / Hart 24

I am kind of surprised on the pushback on Bey across the board. We might just see that guy differently. I liked him as a prospect, in Detroit and still.

Maybe I’m missing something or adding wrong - there are only 240 total minutes in a game (5 players * 48 min = 240) but your #s add to 330. Am I adding wrong?

You are adding wrong. I used 48 mins per line and then stole minutes from backup pf and added them to other positions. 30+30+30+36+24+20+20+20+6+24 = 240

Rookie wrote:

Chandler wrote:

martin wrote:

Nalod wrote:Windhourst on hoop collective guys saying Murray needs the ball to be effective. We taking it away from Brunson or Randle the Allstar?
I get that Murray is a talent upgrade over Grimes and DDV might be best on the 2nd unit. Also that Murry staggared with the bench could be very good.
But DDV can do some of that?
But what problems does he solve if any?
I see a center issue. Mitch breaks and iHart price could keep rising beyond the midlevel. That was he was pegged for but he might have exceeded it.

End of game, pressure ball-handling.

And elite breakdown ability against defenses that can swarm Brunson and play zone elsewhere.

Now, there aren't too many opponents where you will always need that, but definitely the playoff types.

Even Brunson gets trapped at end of games and doesn't know what to do with his pass/dribble when he is double teamed. DJM has the handles to beat that type of thing all day long and provide the second unit with PG ability.

Very well put. this ^^ is exactly what he potentially brings. There should be no doubt that teams like Miami and the Celtics will do everything possible to wear down JB and get the ball out of his hands

Very big question (in addition the chemistry/attitude one) is whether DJM's game gets better in the clutch and when against better opponents. SOme guys do, and some don't. We need a "do" guy -- need that more than stats

I'm starting to think that Detroit would be a good fit for Murray and they have the most assets for a trade - picks, young players, vet players, role/minutes.

Can they trade their picks while we are holding the conditional on them?

Rookie wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

Rookie wrote:

Chandler wrote:

martin wrote:

Nalod wrote:Windhourst on hoop collective guys saying Murray needs the ball to be effective. We taking it away from Brunson or Randle the Allstar?
I get that Murray is a talent upgrade over Grimes and DDV might be best on the 2nd unit. Also that Murry staggared with the bench could be very good.
But DDV can do some of that?
But what problems does he solve if any?
I see a center issue. Mitch breaks and iHart price could keep rising beyond the midlevel. That was he was pegged for but he might have exceeded it.

End of game, pressure ball-handling.

And elite breakdown ability against defenses that can swarm Brunson and play zone elsewhere.

Now, there aren't too many opponents where you will always need that, but definitely the playoff types.

Even Brunson gets trapped at end of games and doesn't know what to do with his pass/dribble when he is double teamed. DJM has the handles to beat that type of thing all day long and provide the second unit with PG ability.

Very well put. this ^^ is exactly what he potentially brings. There should be no doubt that teams like Miami and the Celtics will do everything possible to wear down JB and get the ball out of his hands

Very big question (in addition the chemistry/attitude one) is whether DJM's game gets better in the clutch and when against better opponents. SOme guys do, and some don't. We need a "do" guy -- need that more than stats

I'm starting to think that Detroit would be a good fit for Murray and they have the most assets for a trade - picks, young players, vet players, role/minutes.

Can they trade their picks while we are holding the conditional on them?

Interesting point. I wonder what a 3 way trade would look like where the Knicks supply Detroits FRP as an asset.

Yeah, their pick is tied up until '27, then they become two-second rounders.

ToddTT wrote:What I have learned recently is not to watch YouTube highlights of Dejounte.

We must get this man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well. I think.

He never misses when he shoots?