Garrett2010PSD wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Garrett2010PSD wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:

Garrett2010PSD wrote:Zach LaVine having surgery and out for the year. This is one of the reasons why I never wanted him. HUGE injury risk.

Knicks dodged a bullet there. Now if we can just avoid overpaying for Murray we will have dodged another one.

Last 5 years Lavine has played 304 games, OG 293.

I worry about OG because we paid a big price to get him and he's already missing games.

OG doesn't have the knee injury history that Zach has.

And now Zach is missing the season because of a foot injury adding to the injury risk narrative.

Hard pass then and hard pass now. The Knicks have better options.

A Zach trade would be HAVE BEEN disastrous.

Corrected.

Fuck the narrative that he would not want New York either by his own volition or Klutch petty squabbles with CAA. That salary for his past issues were enough to ward off most reason. ALso the cost and perhaps no OG if we did that deal if it one was even on the table. It had all the markers for a salary dump type trade.
If so I’d have suspected Evan and RJ would have been enough. That said, the issue becomes that salary going forward.

The Zach trade would have closely resembled the OG trade. They weren't getting him for just RJ.

Not like Zach as a trade has not been discussed even prior to this season. Not like teams have been lining up either before he was deemed cooked for the season.

But you could offer what his price would have been though? In my mind RJ and expiring Evan would be a great deal for them. They get RJ and the salary off the books. As for him being a good fit here? Not really.

in other streams of consciousness: Bulls sign Lonzo Ball. Knicks signed Brunson.

EwingsGlass wrote:Ok. So, that injury hurt. But OG is back and logged a +27. We saw 6 minutes of death lineup. Brunson/DDV/Hart/OG/Precious. It was glorious.

To me the death line ups are with Mitch. IHart is surely more skilled over all but Mitch still gets the edge on elite rebounding and rim protection (as good as IHart is).

Having Mitch/OG on the floor together is going to be wild. Best part is we also have an alternative when teams try to pull Mitch out of the paint where's he's most effective. Going a bit smaller w/ Precious (your lineup) is NICE and Thibs will use it

Panos wrote:

fishmike wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:Ok. So, that injury hurt. But OG is back and logged a +27. We saw 6 minutes of death lineup. Brunson/DDV/Hart/OG/Precious. It was glorious.

OG is special. He's a crazy physical specimen and we may just have to deal with him getting nicked up. That being said the impact is just undeniable. His ability to sag off defenders and shut down whole areas of the floor is nuts. Tobias is a good player, averaging 17ppg and with Embiid out should be getting a ton of shots. The way OG just took him and his whole side out of the game was nuts.

To me the death line ups are with Mitch. IHart is surely more skilled over all but Mitch still gets the edge on elite rebounding and rim protection (as good as IHart is).

Having Mitch/OG on the floor together is going to be wild. Best part is we also have an alternative when teams try to pull Mitch out of the paint where's he's most effective. Going a bit smaller w/ Precious (your lineup) is NICE and Thibs will use it

There are going to be so many possible combinations, assuming Thibs will be willing to go 10 deep.

PG: JB, Deuce
SG: DDV, (Deuce)/(jHart)
SF: OG, jHart, Bogs
PF: JR, Precious, (Bogs)
C: iHart, Mitch

That's ten. That's a defensive powerhouse.
I don't see Burks sticking, and frankly don't see Bogs getting much time either, nor being around long. If we go 9 deep, I'd just bench Bogs. Precious is a keeper.

Bogs and Burks are definitely going to be 'situational'. Their +/- has to be glacial

nycericanguy wrote:

Panos wrote:

fishmike wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:Ok. So, that injury hurt. But OG is back and logged a +27. We saw 6 minutes of death lineup. Brunson/DDV/Hart/OG/Precious. It was glorious.

OG is special. He's a crazy physical specimen and we may just have to deal with him getting nicked up. That being said the impact is just undeniable. His ability to sag off defenders and shut down whole areas of the floor is nuts. Tobias is a good player, averaging 17ppg and with Embiid out should be getting a ton of shots. The way OG just took him and his whole side out of the game was nuts.

To me the death line ups are with Mitch. IHart is surely more skilled over all but Mitch still gets the edge on elite rebounding and rim protection (as good as IHart is).

Having Mitch/OG on the floor together is going to be wild. Best part is we also have an alternative when teams try to pull Mitch out of the paint where's he's most effective. Going a bit smaller w/ Precious (your lineup) is NICE and Thibs will use it

There are going to be so many possible combinations, assuming Thibs will be willing to go 10 deep.

PG: JB, Deuce
SG: DDV, (Deuce)/(jHart)
SF: OG, jHart, Bogs
PF: JR, Precious, (Bogs)
C: iHart, Mitch

That's ten. That's a defensive powerhouse.
I don't see Burks sticking, and frankly don't see Bogs getting much time either, nor being around long. If we go 9 deep, I'd just bench Bogs. Precious is a keeper.

DDV has had a great year but looking at that depth chart if there's one position we could use an upgrade it's SG.

Wait, what? We have a guy shooting 40% from 3 on volume on a 10M contract who also plays D and is a general menace on the court and doesn't demand the ball. He has that fast twitch release and can get his shot off. I mean I wouldn't complain if Anthony Edwards walked through the door but in the meantime, our starting SG is pretty darn good and a great fit. You really want another guy taking the ball out of Brunson's hands? We already have Randle trying to find that balance.

martin wrote:

Rookie wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:

Panos wrote:

fishmike wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:Ok. So, that injury hurt. But OG is back and logged a +27. We saw 6 minutes of death lineup. Brunson/DDV/Hart/OG/Precious. It was glorious.

OG is special. He's a crazy physical specimen and we may just have to deal with him getting nicked up. That being said the impact is just undeniable. His ability to sag off defenders and shut down whole areas of the floor is nuts. Tobias is a good player, averaging 17ppg and with Embiid out should be getting a ton of shots. The way OG just took him and his whole side out of the game was nuts.

To me the death line ups are with Mitch. IHart is surely more skilled over all but Mitch still gets the edge on elite rebounding and rim protection (as good as IHart is).

Having Mitch/OG on the floor together is going to be wild. Best part is we also have an alternative when teams try to pull Mitch out of the paint where's he's most effective. Going a bit smaller w/ Precious (your lineup) is NICE and Thibs will use it

There are going to be so many possible combinations, assuming Thibs will be willing to go 10 deep.

PG: JB, Deuce
SG: DDV, (Deuce)/(jHart)
SF: OG, jHart, Bogs
PF: JR, Precious, (Bogs)
C: iHart, Mitch

That's ten. That's a defensive powerhouse.
I don't see Burks sticking, and frankly don't see Bogs getting much time either, nor being around long. If we go 9 deep, I'd just bench Bogs. Precious is a keeper.

DDV has had a great year but looking at that depth chart if there's one position we could use an upgrade it's SG.

Wait, what? We have a guy shooting 40% from 3 on volume on a 10M contract who also plays D and is a general menace on the court and doesn't demand the ball. He has that fast twitch release and can get his shot off. I mean I wouldn't complain if Anthony Edwards walked through the door but in the meantime, our starting SG is pretty darn good and a great fit. You really want another guy taking the ball out of Brunson's hands? We already have Randle trying to find that balance.

Knicks have room to upgrade the SG spot to a player named Donovan or Mikal.

It's going to happen.

Hope so.

DDV is better suited in a 24-26mpg IQ type role.

So SG seems like the best position to upgrade and easiest as you can get away with a dropoff in defense there.

martin wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:C is also upgradable but because we value defense and rim protection there arent many C's that can do both. KP was really the only one that fit that criteria and we didn't seem interested for whatever odd reason.

So SG seems like the best position to upgrade and easiest as you can get away with a dropoff in defense there.

Prob stuck to your reasoning of too injury prone.

but we went after OG who has played even fewer games the past 5 seasons so that doesn't compute for me.

I mean it's all about price and fit. Our C depth is great, could have easily withstood 20-25 missed games from KP. And of course he was dirt cheap.

But trading RJ & IQ makes it hard to withstand those missed games from OG.

Could you imagine

KP
Randle
OG
DDV
Brunson

Now that team could have low key won it all and of course BOS wouldn't have been as formidable.

This FO has been great, but the Obi pick, the CAM trade, and not going after KP are 3 things I still can't wrap my head around.

martin wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:

martin wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:C is also upgradable but because we value defense and rim protection there arent many C's that can do both. KP was really the only one that fit that criteria and we didn't seem interested for whatever odd reason.

So SG seems like the best position to upgrade and easiest as you can get away with a dropoff in defense there.

Prob stuck to your reasoning of too injury prone.

but we went after OG who has played even fewer games the past 5 seasons so that doesn't compute for me.

I mean it's all about price and fit. Our C depth is great, could have easily withstood 20-25 missed games from KP. And of course he was dirt cheap.

But trading RJ & IQ makes it hard to withstand those missed games from OG.

Could you imagine

KP
Randle
OG
DDV
Brunson

Now that team could have low key won it all and of course BOS wouldn't have been as formidable.

This FO has been great, but the Obi pick, the CAM trade, and not going after KP are 3 things I still can't wrap my head around.

That's on you, there are PLENTY of really easy reasons you keep purposely ignoring.

You put KP and OG into the same category of injury and that's insane.

we're very likely to watch BOS win the chip this year, with Tatum even saying KP was the missing piece for them.

This FO has largely done a great job, but I'm not going to blindly support everything they do/dont do.

KP going to our division rival BOS for #35 pick and Tyus Jones, after openly stating he would love to come back to NY, while we sat on a boatload of assets was a massive fail that some just don't want to acknowledge for some reason.

The CAM trade was largely inconsequential, but the Obi pick... KP... that's franchise altering.

martin wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:

martin wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:

martin wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:C is also upgradable but because we value defense and rim protection there arent many C's that can do both. KP was really the only one that fit that criteria and we didn't seem interested for whatever odd reason.

So SG seems like the best position to upgrade and easiest as you can get away with a dropoff in defense there.

Prob stuck to your reasoning of too injury prone.

but we went after OG who has played even fewer games the past 5 seasons so that doesn't compute for me.

I mean it's all about price and fit. Our C depth is great, could have easily withstood 20-25 missed games from KP. And of course he was dirt cheap.

But trading RJ & IQ makes it hard to withstand those missed games from OG.

Could you imagine

KP
Randle
OG
DDV
Brunson

Now that team could have low key won it all and of course BOS wouldn't have been as formidable.

This FO has been great, but the Obi pick, the CAM trade, and not going after KP are 3 things I still can't wrap my head around.

That's on you, there are PLENTY of really easy reasons you keep purposely ignoring.

You put KP and OG into the same category of injury and that's insane.

we're very likely to watch BOS win the chip this year, with Tatum even saying KP was the missing piece for them.

This FO has largely done a great job, but I'm not going to blindly support everything they do/dont do.

KP going to our division rival BOS for #35 pick and Tyus Jones, after openly stating he would love to come back to NY, while we sat on a boatload of assets was a massive fail that some just don't want to acknowledge for some reason.

The CAM trade was largely inconsequential, but the Obi pick... KP... that's franchise altering.

You ignore the fact that you can't have a roster with Randle, KP, Mitch, iHart. Just zero possible way, you are reintroducing Obi-Randle dynamic but now at a position you are incredibly solid at. It's a roster building failure.

Your complaints of OG being injury prone fall flat. You don't mind that type of player, just the ones you want.

Boston took in $33M of KP's contract. Who on the Knicks are going out with IQ? Cause Washington wanted a PG. What is your trade that moves Marcus smart level starter that nets what Washington needed?

And if you are KP, who are you pushing for, NY or Boston?

It's not just as simple as #35 and Tyrus, that's the naive way of looking at it.

I think Mitch or Hart would have had to be included in a trade for KP. I never suggested having all 3.

OG being injury prone is only an issue because of what we gave up. If we had gotten him for a 2nd rounder and a backup PG I wouldn't care about his injuries. Price matters.

BOS got KP for peanuts, we traded two 23 year old starting backcourt players who were previously the framework for a DM deal, and the #31 pick for OG. Huge difference no?

WSH was reportedly willing to trade Tyus for a 1st this deadline, no one bit. Safe to say his value is a 2nd round pick.

So BOS essentially got KP for two second rounders. We sent out two seconds along with Grimes just for Bogs/Burks.

That's a huge difference from what we gave up for OG.