martin wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:at whose expense though? all our guards need more min. Hart, RJ, DDV, IQ and Grimes are all already at or near career lows in MPG.

I have no issue with Devo taking minutes from all mentioned above. Except IQ.

Its easy to fall in love with the bench players b/c not as much is expected, you can shrug off bad games and only remember the good.

But the truth is Hart and RJ are just simply better players.

I think DDV is better and more experinced than Grimes though, but Grimes also gives us more size.

My contention is totally based on his aggressiveness, basketball IQ, three point efficiency. So disagree that JHart or RJ are close to being better than him based on these important metrics. Ones that are needed with our best players. Really do think he is more than a parenial role player. He has proven his effect on winning for some time. Including on some top championship level teams.
However, do feel RJ has to be given more time to develop. He has proven that IF he can hit the three more efficiently, he can be next level. Add his still maturing basketball IQ, and he has potential. Question is, how much patience is enough?
JJart has what Devo has, except his ability to score and hit an open jumper.

For me, this is key. If the Knicks were still fighting to be a play-in type team - say currently sitting in the 8-11 seed area instead of steady around 6th - there is a lot more leeway.

Knicks are at or near that tipping point where straight dev reps and minutes are almost done for someone like RJ.

There can be a solid case made if Knicks decide to trade RJ. Would rather wait it out and somehow sign a free agent to challenge him like Devo challenged Grimes. But with IQ coming up as a priority, do not see where the Knicks get the money. Evan's money coming off will help but other moves need to be made.

HofstraBBall wrote:

martin wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:

martin wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:

martin wrote:Not for nothing, but I get playing Brunson against the best especially when he is on a roll.

No reason IQ can't gobble up some Jalen minutes to keep Brunson near 32 or even 30.

Your best players should play. Jalen is young, with very few NBA miles on him compared to other 27 year olds. No reason his minutes should be cut to 30-32mpg, no other stars play such few minutes. That's something you do for a player like KP to try to keep him healthy. that would make us a worse team period.

Not a believer in this at all. Check out Denver's minutes across the last years. Or Steph's minutes over the last decade. Mitch and iHart do not suffer cause they only play ~24 minutes.

Lots of high level guys do play in the 34+ minute range and that's OK, but having your best guys do 32 - if you have the depth - ain't a bad thing either.

And I wouldn't force the issue like with KP or load management; I'd want IQ to force the minutes thing cause he is playing so well. For me, the Knicks have a gap with their PG position, one who can really control the pace and passing of the team and feel like IQ has an opportunity to grow into that and take minutes that way.

And when playoffs come, best player plays, no questions asked.

Those are unique cases, GSW has taken it easy with Steph considering his previous ankle injuries and the fact that GSW was a perennial playoff team making deep runs every year meant Curry was putting a ton of miles on his body. So that made sense and GSW was good enough to do it. And all that being said Curry was never at 30-32mpg.

Jokic is a big man and bigs tend to play less as the fast pace of today's game is too much for a 7 footer to play huge minutes. But even then he's been around 34mpg the past 4-5 years.

But Brunson playing 30-32mpg at his age with his miles would be truly unheard of for a 27 year old superstar, and we simply aren't good enough to be benching our star and leader for 18mpg. And there's simply no reason to do it.

You are quibbling about a minute or 2 extra a game or not. Instead of my real point about IQ getting more minutes because of the type of player he could be.

Think this is one of the most important issues facing the future of the Knicks.
As mentioned on IQ thread, feel not only will IQ pick to go to a team that gives him a starting role and more minutes but, if given that opportunity, IQ can easily do what Maxey has done in Philly.
Not sure if there will be a team able to outbid the Knicks in offseason, maybe, but do feel IQ will only commit long term to a team that can offer him that.
IQ has been one of our most valuable players. Takes over scoring role in second unit and has been a solid finisher.

I don't watch enough Maxey at all to give a solid enough opinion but that is quite the jump.

3 areas I think IQ needs to get better at to meet that level: Shooting, dribbling through traffic/keeping dribble alive, and pure vision on passing.

My thought was that IQ is a clear half to whole step behind Maxey but I don't watch enough.

martin wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

martin wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:

martin wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:

martin wrote:Not for nothing, but I get playing Brunson against the best especially when he is on a roll.

No reason IQ can't gobble up some Jalen minutes to keep Brunson near 32 or even 30.

Your best players should play. Jalen is young, with very few NBA miles on him compared to other 27 year olds. No reason his minutes should be cut to 30-32mpg, no other stars play such few minutes. That's something you do for a player like KP to try to keep him healthy. that would make us a worse team period.

Not a believer in this at all. Check out Denver's minutes across the last years. Or Steph's minutes over the last decade. Mitch and iHart do not suffer cause they only play ~24 minutes.

Lots of high level guys do play in the 34+ minute range and that's OK, but having your best guys do 32 - if you have the depth - ain't a bad thing either.

And I wouldn't force the issue like with KP or load management; I'd want IQ to force the minutes thing cause he is playing so well. For me, the Knicks have a gap with their PG position, one who can really control the pace and passing of the team and feel like IQ has an opportunity to grow into that and take minutes that way.

And when playoffs come, best player plays, no questions asked.

Those are unique cases, GSW has taken it easy with Steph considering his previous ankle injuries and the fact that GSW was a perennial playoff team making deep runs every year meant Curry was putting a ton of miles on his body. So that made sense and GSW was good enough to do it. And all that being said Curry was never at 30-32mpg.

Jokic is a big man and bigs tend to play less as the fast pace of today's game is too much for a 7 footer to play huge minutes. But even then he's been around 34mpg the past 4-5 years.

But Brunson playing 30-32mpg at his age with his miles would be truly unheard of for a 27 year old superstar, and we simply aren't good enough to be benching our star and leader for 18mpg. And there's simply no reason to do it.

You are quibbling about a minute or 2 extra a game or not. Instead of my real point about IQ getting more minutes because of the type of player he could be.

Think this is one of the most important issues facing the future of the Knicks.
As mentioned on IQ thread, feel not only will IQ pick to go to a team that gives him a starting role and more minutes but, if given that opportunity, IQ can easily do what Maxey has done in Philly.
Not sure if there will be a team able to outbid the Knicks in offseason, maybe, but do feel IQ will only commit long term to a team that can offer him that.
IQ has been one of our most valuable players. Takes over scoring role in second unit and has been a solid finisher.

I don't watch enough Maxey at all to give a solid enough opinion but that is quite the jump.

3 areas I think IQ needs to get better at to meet that level: Shooting, dribbling through traffic/keeping dribble alive, and pure vision on passing.

My thought was that IQ is a clear half to whole step behind Maxey but I don't watch enough.

Maxey's just a better athlete and has better layup packages at the rim. Coming in, Maxey was better attacking the rim but needed more refinement on his jumper and IQ was a better shooter, but got lost in the paint. They've both made strides (Quickly shoots 57%<5 feet of the rim and Maxey shoots 58% in the same range). Maxey also shoots 39% from three compared 38% from IQ. Should also add that Embiid probably provides better spacing because of his gravity and it allows Maxey some easier lanes to the rim.

BigDaddyG wrote:

martin wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

martin wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:

martin wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:

martin wrote:Not for nothing, but I get playing Brunson against the best especially when he is on a roll.

No reason IQ can't gobble up some Jalen minutes to keep Brunson near 32 or even 30.

Your best players should play. Jalen is young, with very few NBA miles on him compared to other 27 year olds. No reason his minutes should be cut to 30-32mpg, no other stars play such few minutes. That's something you do for a player like KP to try to keep him healthy. that would make us a worse team period.

Not a believer in this at all. Check out Denver's minutes across the last years. Or Steph's minutes over the last decade. Mitch and iHart do not suffer cause they only play ~24 minutes.

Lots of high level guys do play in the 34+ minute range and that's OK, but having your best guys do 32 - if you have the depth - ain't a bad thing either.

And I wouldn't force the issue like with KP or load management; I'd want IQ to force the minutes thing cause he is playing so well. For me, the Knicks have a gap with their PG position, one who can really control the pace and passing of the team and feel like IQ has an opportunity to grow into that and take minutes that way.

And when playoffs come, best player plays, no questions asked.

Those are unique cases, GSW has taken it easy with Steph considering his previous ankle injuries and the fact that GSW was a perennial playoff team making deep runs every year meant Curry was putting a ton of miles on his body. So that made sense and GSW was good enough to do it. And all that being said Curry was never at 30-32mpg.

Jokic is a big man and bigs tend to play less as the fast pace of today's game is too much for a 7 footer to play huge minutes. But even then he's been around 34mpg the past 4-5 years.

But Brunson playing 30-32mpg at his age with his miles would be truly unheard of for a 27 year old superstar, and we simply aren't good enough to be benching our star and leader for 18mpg. And there's simply no reason to do it.

You are quibbling about a minute or 2 extra a game or not. Instead of my real point about IQ getting more minutes because of the type of player he could be.

Think this is one of the most important issues facing the future of the Knicks.
As mentioned on IQ thread, feel not only will IQ pick to go to a team that gives him a starting role and more minutes but, if given that opportunity, IQ can easily do what Maxey has done in Philly.
Not sure if there will be a team able to outbid the Knicks in offseason, maybe, but do feel IQ will only commit long term to a team that can offer him that.
IQ has been one of our most valuable players. Takes over scoring role in second unit and has been a solid finisher.

I don't watch enough Maxey at all to give a solid enough opinion but that is quite the jump.

3 areas I think IQ needs to get better at to meet that level: Shooting, dribbling through traffic/keeping dribble alive, and pure vision on passing.

My thought was that IQ is a clear half to whole step behind Maxey but I don't watch enough.

Maxey's just a better athlete and has better layup packages at the rim. Coming in, Maxey was better attacking the rim but needed more refinement on his jumper and IQ was a better shooter, but got lost in the paint. They've both made strides (Quickly shoots 57%<5 feet of the rim and Maxey shoots 58% in the same range). Maxey also shoots 39% from three compared 38% from IQ. Should also add that Embiid probably provides better spacing because of his gravity and it allows Maxey some easier lanes to the rim.

My point exactly. Also, given the fact Maxey plays with 2 guys in the SL that shoot over 37% from deep and everyone else shoots over 35% from deep, you can argue IQs 38% while surrounded by less talented shooters is more impressive.

Again, not here to take away what Maxey does. Just stating that, like IQ believes, if given a starting role and given an elite supporting cast, IQs production would flourish just as much.

The one thing I would add is that Maxey is a better distributor and has better awareness of getting others involved. But IQ has shown he can do that as well when shifted with the starters

GustavBahler wrote:Only a trade this season is going to clear up the log jam. IQ is also playing well in limited minutes, Grimes is getting his mojo back from the bench. Someone has to go.

Please keep the guards, trade RJ.

SergioNYK wrote:You risk IQ losing even more minutes by increasing DVo.

In same camp that IQ needs more minutes. But IQs minutes do not have to impact Devo.
Look at last night, IQ was taken out for RJ. Would have preferred we kept him in
JHart had it going defensively so deserved to get more minutes.
Not opposed to situations like that certain guys have it going.
Love JHart impact but not when he can't hit a three and teams are leaving him open. But he is part of their best lineup statistically.
I really liked the unit with IHart, Randle, Devo, IQ and JB last night. They made a nice run in second quarter.

TheMTL wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Only a trade this season is going to clear up the log jam. IQ is also playing well in limited minutes, Grimes is getting his mojo back from the bench. Someone has to go.

It's going to have to be Devo.
DEVO been great but it was not a necessary move. I truly believe increased mpg for IQ (~30mpg) was all that was needed. Instead IQ is down in mpg and Grimes was/is in a funk.

As long as we don't trade IQ, I'm good but yeah Knicks gotta clear this guard situation. This is addition by subtraction.

My fear just came true. Traded IQ