martin wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:

martin wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:and im only making that trade for OG if DM is coming. Because I think with a Brunson/DM backcourt you need that big, elite wing defender.

I wouldn't trade for OG alone.

Why not?

he's a role player not a game changer by himself

As currently constructed we need RJ's scoring and ability to draw fouls more than another 3 & D guy.

My thought process - and hope - was that without someone like RJ in rotation, his usage and shots would go to Grimes, IQ, Hart, DDV.

I'm still a Grimes proponent and just think the lack of touches is in his head. He has got to do better but think he is boxed in some by RJ and the rest of the minutes rotation. Give him a bigger role and I think we would see a lot better version of him.

Maybe not the Coby White evolution that started with Zach LaVine sitting, but a better cross of Michael Cooper and Byron Scott with more drive ability.

no matter how you slice it there aren't enough minutes for everyone unless we make a 2 or 3 for 1 trade.

RJ, Grimes, IQ, DDV and JHart are all at or near career lows in mpg.

Swapping RJ for OG, who is used to playing 35mpg, doesn't resolve any of that.

I agree about Grimes, I think he can be as good as OG, but these guys are going to have a hard time flourishing as currently constructed. there's just no way to keep all 5 guys happy and fed.

nycericanguy wrote:

martin wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:

martin wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:and im only making that trade for OG if DM is coming. Because I think with a Brunson/DM backcourt you need that big, elite wing defender.

I wouldn't trade for OG alone.

Why not?

he's a role player not a game changer by himself

As currently constructed we need RJ's scoring and ability to draw fouls more than another 3 & D guy.

My thought process - and hope - was that without someone like RJ in rotation, his usage and shots would go to Grimes, IQ, Hart, DDV.

I'm still a Grimes proponent and just think the lack of touches is in his head. He has got to do better but think he is boxed in some by RJ and the rest of the minutes rotation. Give him a bigger role and I think we would see a lot better version of him.

Maybe not the Coby White evolution that started with Zach LaVine sitting, but a better cross of Michael Cooper and Byron Scott with more drive ability.

no matter how you slice it there aren't enough minutes for everyone unless we make a 2 or 3 for 1 trade.

RJ, Grimes, IQ, DDV and JHart are all at or near career lows in mpg.

Swapping RJ for OG, who is used to playing 35mpg, doesn't resolve any of that.

I agree about Grimes, I think he can be as good as OG, but these guys are going to have a hard time flourishing as currently constructed. there's just no way to keep all 5 guys happy and fed.

I don't understand that statement. I don't think RJ and OG have the same role or usage types for their teams and that is readily obvious.

I get the minutes thing but I think that's an entirely different animal.

OG type also helps the backup PF and big wing defensive problems, significantly.

martin wrote:

DLeethal wrote:unload RJ/Quick/Grimes/boatload of picks and get back Donovan and OG.

Brunson - Mitchell - OG - Randle - Mitch
DDV - Deuce - Josh Hart - Isiah Hart

Leon, make it so!!!

I've been playing with Spotrac trade machine with Mitchell, Anunoby and Mikal Bridges as my usual suspects. Markaanen is now making it into my rotation though. Debating in my head what a Markaanen deal would look like and if he could play Center next to Randle in the same manner that KP does for the Celts.

I mean, putting Mitchell, Bridges and Anunoby aside, DDV/Brunson/Barrett/Randle/Markaanen kind of works. Maybe you need Hart's rebounding in that lineup. Markaanen's contract works well with Fournier's, though I presume we need to add other players in addition to picks there. He has another year on his contract.

I'd pull the trigger on a Mitchell trade now though. Maybe not 4 first and 3 swaps, but I would go to war with Brunson/Mitchell as my backcourt duo and hope the defense isn't atrocious.

martin wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:

martin wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:

martin wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:

martin wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:and im only making that trade for OG if DM is coming. Because I think with a Brunson/DM backcourt you need that big, elite wing defender.

I wouldn't trade for OG alone.

Why not?

he's a role player not a game changer by himself

As currently constructed we need RJ's scoring and ability to draw fouls more than another 3 & D guy.

My thought process - and hope - was that without someone like RJ in rotation, his usage and shots would go to Grimes, IQ, Hart, DDV.

I'm still a Grimes proponent and just think the lack of touches is in his head. He has got to do better but think he is boxed in some by RJ and the rest of the minutes rotation. Give him a bigger role and I think we would see a lot better version of him.

Maybe not the Coby White evolution that started with Zach LaVine sitting, but a better cross of Michael Cooper and Byron Scott with more drive ability.

no matter how you slice it there aren't enough minutes for everyone unless we make a 2 or 3 for 1 trade.

RJ, Grimes, IQ, DDV and JHart are all at or near career lows in mpg.

Swapping RJ for OG, who is used to playing 35mpg, doesn't resolve any of that.

I agree about Grimes, I think he can be as good as OG, but these guys are going to have a hard time flourishing as currently constructed. there's just no way to keep all 5 guys happy and fed.

I don't understand that statement. I don't think RJ and OG have the same role or usage types for their teams and that is readily obvious.

I get the minutes thing but I think that's an entirely different animal.

OG type also helps the backup PF and big wing defensive problems, significantly.

I mean you want to cut OG's minutes to 29 like RJ? Sure RJ takes a few more shots but the issue is more minutes than anything, and the minutes just aren't there for everyone.

Cut down the injury prone dude's minutes to 30-32? Yes. And hopefully Randle's too, OG can take those minutes and shots.

Randle is only playing 35mpg, that's very reasonable for a star player. I don't think we need to cut his minutes further, you want your best players on the court.

We're splitting hairs though, swapping RJ for OG just doesn't solve the minutes issues on this team at the SG/SF positions.

blkexec wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:

martin wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:

martin wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:

martin wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:

martin wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:and im only making that trade for OG if DM is coming. Because I think with a Brunson/DM backcourt you need that big, elite wing defender.

I wouldn't trade for OG alone.

Why not?

he's a role player not a game changer by himself

As currently constructed we need RJ's scoring and ability to draw fouls more than another 3 & D guy.

My thought process - and hope - was that without someone like RJ in rotation, his usage and shots would go to Grimes, IQ, Hart, DDV.

I'm still a Grimes proponent and just think the lack of touches is in his head. He has got to do better but think he is boxed in some by RJ and the rest of the minutes rotation. Give him a bigger role and I think we would see a lot better version of him.

Maybe not the Coby White evolution that started with Zach LaVine sitting, but a better cross of Michael Cooper and Byron Scott with more drive ability.

no matter how you slice it there aren't enough minutes for everyone unless we make a 2 or 3 for 1 trade.

RJ, Grimes, IQ, DDV and JHart are all at or near career lows in mpg.

Swapping RJ for OG, who is used to playing 35mpg, doesn't resolve any of that.

I agree about Grimes, I think he can be as good as OG, but these guys are going to have a hard time flourishing as currently constructed. there's just no way to keep all 5 guys happy and fed.

I don't understand that statement. I don't think RJ and OG have the same role or usage types for their teams and that is readily obvious.

I get the minutes thing but I think that's an entirely different animal.

OG type also helps the backup PF and big wing defensive problems, significantly.

I mean you want to cut OG's minutes to 29 like RJ? Sure RJ takes a few more shots but the issue is more minutes than anything, and the minutes just aren't there for everyone.

Cut down the injury prone dude's minutes to 30-32? Yes. And hopefully Randle's too, OG can take those minutes and shots.

Randle is only playing 35mpg, that's very reasonable for a star player. I don't think we need to cut his minutes further, you want your best players on the court.

We're splitting hairs though, swapping RJ for OG just doesn't solve the minutes issues on this team at the SG/SF positions.

I think it’s a stretch to find one move or one player to solve multiple issues.

Adding OG may not solve the glut or mins issue but it improves our defense and backup PF problem. Throw in another rotation player and there’s your 2 for 1. Not a bad move if possible. I just don’t trust Toronto who will ask for the farm or Leon who might give up the farm. But to Leon’s credit he’s been patiently waiting for the right move. It’s different from the past GMs but it’s effective.

OG is in the driver seat here and his co-pilot is Sam Rose, son of Leon.

I don't know what is fair market value for OG but Houston did offer FVV $42M per for 3 years and then offered Dillon Brooks $22M per for 4 years. That's the scare tactic cause I don't think a GM can survive losing both FVV and OG for nothing? Not to mention dealing with Siakam, right?

Houston gotta be OG's ceiling type offer but it would be for a team that kinda sucks.

Or he can force the contract he wants in Toronto. Or force his way to his co-pilots fav team without tampering but that new team would be well informed about his contract needs.

JesseDark wrote:I saw some skuttlebut about LAURI MARKKANEN coming available. He would be an excellent 3rd peice to add a pf/C that can score. I'm sure the price Ainge would want is over the top.

I wouldn’t even ask the price. I’d tell Ainge what the offer is. And that he can **** off if he doesn’t like it.

I might not be a great negotiator.

EwingsGlass wrote:

ToddTT wrote:

JesseDark wrote:I saw some skuttlebut about LAURI MARKKANEN coming available. He would be an excellent 3rd peice to add a pf/C that can score. I'm sure the price Ainge would want is over the top.

I wouldn’t even ask the price. I’d tell Ainge what the offer is. And that he can **** off if he doesn’t like it.

I might not be a great negotiator.

Make him an offer he can't refuse, you say? Horse head and all?

Lauri only makes sense if you trade Randle. He's not really a center or SF. I do like his game as a guy who can score on a lower usage tho.

Nalod wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:Knicks aren't trading JB or Randle.

We have some posters that like to play pretend GM and discuss.
But.......
Lets assume Clev calls up, money aside, and does DM for JB straight up. Do you do it?
I know he "Family" but you get to chose one vs. the other. No other trades on the table at the moment.
My heart says no. But.....
Logic says do it.

Definitely saying no. https://stathead.com/basketball/versus-finder.cgi?request=1&seasons_type=perchoice&player_id1=brunsja01&p1yrfrom=2023&p1yrto=2024&player_id2=mitchdo01&p2yrfrom=2023&p2yrto=2024

Pretty much a statistical dead heat over the last two seasons, then you factor in contract, playoffs, roster (lots of Villanova guys) and Ainge trading away Donovan Mitchell and I think it's a pretty easy decision for New York. Let's flip it and say OKC decides to go all in and make a trade for either or- I think Mitchell probably fetches slightly more assets just because he's more handsome and it's easier to build a marketing campaign around him, but MSG sells out even with Eddy Curry headlining so it's not as important here.

JesseDark wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

ToddTT wrote:

JesseDark wrote:I saw some skuttlebut about LAURI MARKKANEN coming available. He would be an excellent 3rd peice to add a pf/C that can score. I'm sure the price Ainge would want is over the top.

I wouldn’t even ask the price. I’d tell Ainge what the offer is. And that he can **** off if he doesn’t like it.

I might not be a great negotiator.

Make him an offer he can't refuse, you say? Horse head and all?

Lauri only makes sense if you trade Randle. He's not really a center or SF. I do like his game as a guy who can score on a lower usage tho.

Ok, I was visioning him at 5. Can he defend at his size as a 3.

Knixkik wrote:

martin wrote:

blkexec wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:

martin wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:

martin wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:

martin wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:

martin wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:and im only making that trade for OG if DM is coming. Because I think with a Brunson/DM backcourt you need that big, elite wing defender.

I wouldn't trade for OG alone.

Why not?

he's a role player not a game changer by himself

As currently constructed we need RJ's scoring and ability to draw fouls more than another 3 & D guy.

My thought process - and hope - was that without someone like RJ in rotation, his usage and shots would go to Grimes, IQ, Hart, DDV.

I'm still a Grimes proponent and just think the lack of touches is in his head. He has got to do better but think he is boxed in some by RJ and the rest of the minutes rotation. Give him a bigger role and I think we would see a lot better version of him.

Maybe not the Coby White evolution that started with Zach LaVine sitting, but a better cross of Michael Cooper and Byron Scott with more drive ability.

no matter how you slice it there aren't enough minutes for everyone unless we make a 2 or 3 for 1 trade.

RJ, Grimes, IQ, DDV and JHart are all at or near career lows in mpg.

Swapping RJ for OG, who is used to playing 35mpg, doesn't resolve any of that.

I agree about Grimes, I think he can be as good as OG, but these guys are going to have a hard time flourishing as currently constructed. there's just no way to keep all 5 guys happy and fed.

I don't understand that statement. I don't think RJ and OG have the same role or usage types for their teams and that is readily obvious.

I get the minutes thing but I think that's an entirely different animal.

OG type also helps the backup PF and big wing defensive problems, significantly.

I mean you want to cut OG's minutes to 29 like RJ? Sure RJ takes a few more shots but the issue is more minutes than anything, and the minutes just aren't there for everyone.

Cut down the injury prone dude's minutes to 30-32? Yes. And hopefully Randle's too, OG can take those minutes and shots.

Randle is only playing 35mpg, that's very reasonable for a star player. I don't think we need to cut his minutes further, you want your best players on the court.

We're splitting hairs though, swapping RJ for OG just doesn't solve the minutes issues on this team at the SG/SF positions.

I think it’s a stretch to find one move or one player to solve multiple issues.

Adding OG may not solve the glut or mins issue but it improves our defense and backup PF problem. Throw in another rotation player and there’s your 2 for 1. Not a bad move if possible. I just don’t trust Toronto who will ask for the farm or Leon who might give up the farm. But to Leon’s credit he’s been patiently waiting for the right move. It’s different from the past GMs but it’s effective.

OG is in the driver seat here and his co-pilot is Sam Rose, son of Leon.

I don't know what is fair market value for OG but Houston did offer FVV $42M per for 3 years and then offered Dillon Brooks $22M per for 4 years. That's the scare tactic cause I don't think a GM can survive losing both FVV and OG for nothing? Not to mention dealing with Siakam, right?

Houston gotta be OG's ceiling type offer but it would be for a team that kinda sucks.

Or he can force the contract he wants in Toronto. Or force his way to his co-pilots fav team without tampering but that new team would be well informed about his contract needs.

I’m still holding out hope for OG and his agency status overrides the lawsuit situation. Not sure if it will though. Toronto would probably rather lose him for nothing than trade with the Knicks ever again. But with the way Brunson and Randle are playing, OG is the perfect piece to take another step.

Lawsuit seems utterly stupid in the bigger context of things and I do wonder if it creates another excuse to not work with Knicks. But Masai also cant lose another free agent without any compensation and that’s a real possibility if OG or Pascal forces the issue?