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Knicks and the upcoming trade market...
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martin
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12/8/2023  10:08 AM
Lots of good stuff in this article

https://theathletic.com/5121511/2023/12/08/knicks-nba-trade-market/

The Knicks know they need a star to take them into the stratosphere of the Bucks and Boston Celtics, but their outlook right now remains the same as it was coming into training camp: They don’t anticipate a worthwhile big name becoming available during the season. However, other types of moves, maybe smaller ones to improve the team in the short term before that faceless star hypothetically arrives, can come.

Next week provides an important marker around the NBA: Dec. 15, the day that most players who signed free-agent contracts this past offseason are eligible to be traded.

Deals don’t normally come until winter. The trade deadline is not until Feb. 8. But for now, here is what I’m hearing about the Knicks as trade season approaches:

• The Knicks have made it clear to other teams that they want a star, league sources said, but they also don’t expect one to become available in the middle of the season.

[snip]

• There are people inside the Knicks front office who understand that a too-many-guys situation could be brewing, according to league sources.

[snip]

• The Detroit Pistons, owners of the NBA’s worst record and an 18-game losing streak, have expressed that it would take a large offer to acquire 20-point scorer Bojan Bogdanović, league sources said. The situation with Bogdanović is akin to the one with Jerami Grant from a couple of seasons ago, when Grant had two years remaining on his contract and Detroit held onto him despite its losing record. The Pistons eventually flipped Grant for a late first-round pick once the rangy forward was in the final year of his deal.

Bogdanović makes $20 million this season and is non-guaranteed for $19 million in 2024-25.

• Maybe the most common question asked around the league is: What do the Toronto Raptors do? Toronto has three consequential players — Pascal Siakam, OG Anunoby and Gary Trent Jr. — on expiring deals and is treading around .500 for the second consecutive season. The Knicks made a play for Anunoby last winter, league sources said, but Toronto never engaged in serious discussions to trade away the two-way stud. Anunoby made his first-ever NBA All-Defense team in 2022-23 and should be headed for another in 2023-24 if he keeps up this level of play.

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SergioNYK
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12/8/2023  10:23 AM    LAST EDITED: 12/8/2023  10:24 AM
Bogdanovic and the Toronto players don't excite me at all. I don't think these players move the needle much for us and they will be expensive to acquire. I know it's not popular and the media clowns on TNT won't like it but I'd stay pat and continue to wait for the RIGHT star to become available.
GustavBahler
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12/8/2023  10:27 AM
Im ok as a fan if the FO cant find a good deal out there for a star this season. But if we whiff on a star in the offseason. Its more than fair to ask what's driving this "failure to launch".

Is it because of Thibs rep? A long line of current and former players with similar complaints over the years

Is it Leon's history on the other side of the table? Grudges by other team execs, the lack of rapport with other execs?

Is it Dolan's rep as an owner? He's treated some former players poorly over the years.

Is it the pressure of playing at MSG? The expectations?

If the FO cant find a trade partner for a star going into next season. A deal that doesnt look like it was written by Danny Ainge. The franchise needs to do a deep dive as to why. But dont ask fing McKinsey lol.
martin
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12/8/2023  10:29 AM    LAST EDITED: 12/8/2023  10:29 AM
SergioNYK wrote:Bogdanovic and the Toronto players don't excite me at all. I don't think these players move the needle much for us and they will be expensive to acquire. I know it's not popular and the media clowns on TNT won't like it but I'd stay pat and continue to wait for the RIGHT star to become available.

Bogdanovic and OG shouldn't excite anyone when against the backdrop of a superstar.

But could they have short term impact like DRose or Josh Hart had in their mid season debuts? And at what cost and can they then be combined (or make a different player who is on roster disposable) in a trade this summer?

I think those could be key factors in the decision making process.

IMO, Knicks are 2 trades away from being at that top level. Still gotta make the mid sized move (or 2) too.

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SergioNYK
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12/8/2023  10:33 AM
martin wrote:
SergioNYK wrote:Bogdanovic and the Toronto players don't excite me at all. I don't think these players move the needle much for us and they will be expensive to acquire. I know it's not popular and the media clowns on TNT won't like it but I'd stay pat and continue to wait for the RIGHT star to become available.

Bogdanovic and OG shouldn't excite anyone when against the backdrop of a superstar.

But could they have short term impact like DRose or Josh Hart had in their mid season debuts? And at what cost and can they then be combined (or make a different player who is on roster disposable) in a trade this summer?

I think those could be key factors in the decision making process.

IMO, Knicks are 2 trades away from being at that top level. Still gotta make the mid sized move (or 2) too.

Great points. I guess for me it will depend on the price. I think currently we need someone with Bogdanovic's skillset over OG's.
martin
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12/8/2023  10:58 AM
I don't have Insider

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martin
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12/8/2023  11:02 AM
SergioNYK wrote:
martin wrote:
SergioNYK wrote:Bogdanovic and the Toronto players don't excite me at all. I don't think these players move the needle much for us and they will be expensive to acquire. I know it's not popular and the media clowns on TNT won't like it but I'd stay pat and continue to wait for the RIGHT star to become available.

Bogdanovic and OG shouldn't excite anyone when against the backdrop of a superstar.

But could they have short term impact like DRose or Josh Hart had in their mid season debuts? And at what cost and can they then be combined (or make a different player who is on roster disposable) in a trade this summer?

I think those could be key factors in the decision making process.

IMO, Knicks are 2 trades away from being at that top level. Still gotta make the mid sized move (or 2) too.

Great points. I guess for me it will depend on the price. I think currently we need someone with Bogdanovic's skillset over OG's.

Quite frankly, Knicks need both. Bogs would prob make more sense in the short term cause of his shooting, passing, movement (if I have understanding of his game correct, and I could be off, really not familiar). Knicks still need a big wing defender too, ala OG.

Fuck it, Knicks should go after both lol Fournier, RJ, IQ, picks out and both those guys in.

Mitch, Randle, OG, Grimes, Brunson. McBride, DDV, Hart, Bogdanovic, iHart. We roll!

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martin
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12/8/2023  11:06 AM
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martin
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12/8/2023  11:26 AM
martin wrote:I don't have Insider

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newyorknewyork
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12/8/2023  11:47 AM
The small smart moves for better roster construction is swapping Hartenstein for a C/PF that can hit threes and free throws. And swapping Grimes for a natural 3&D SF/PF.
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Moonangie
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12/8/2023  11:48 AM
martin wrote:
SergioNYK wrote:
martin wrote:
SergioNYK wrote:Bogdanovic and the Toronto players don't excite me at all. I don't think these players move the needle much for us and they will be expensive to acquire. I know it's not popular and the media clowns on TNT won't like it but I'd stay pat and continue to wait for the RIGHT star to become available.

Bogdanovic and OG shouldn't excite anyone when against the backdrop of a superstar.

But could they have short term impact like DRose or Josh Hart had in their mid season debuts? And at what cost and can they then be combined (or make a different player who is on roster disposable) in a trade this summer?

I think those could be key factors in the decision making process.

IMO, Knicks are 2 trades away from being at that top level. Still gotta make the mid sized move (or 2) too.

Great points. I guess for me it will depend on the price. I think currently we need someone with Bogdanovic's skillset over OG's.

Quite frankly, Knicks need both. Bogs would prob make more sense in the short term cause of his shooting, passing, movement (if I have understanding of his game correct, and I could be off, really not familiar). Knicks still need a big wing defender too, ala OG.

Fuck it, Knicks should go after both lol Fournier, RJ, IQ, picks out and both those guys in.

Mitch, Randle, OG, Grimes, Brunson. McBride, DDV, Hart, Bogdanovic, iHart. We roll!

Moving RJ and IQ in a deal that fails to land the superstar...nah. Keep the powder dry imo.
martin
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12/8/2023  11:50 AM
newyorknewyork wrote:The small smart moves for better roster construction is swapping Hartenstein for a C/PF that can hit threes and free throws. And swapping Grimes for a natural 3&D SF/PF.

Is there a backup C/PF out there that does most of the defensive, setting picks, passing things that iHart does while also hitting 3s and FT's?

That feels like an almost all star level dude?

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newyorknewyork
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12/8/2023  12:16 PM
martin wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:The small smart moves for better roster construction is swapping Hartenstein for a C/PF that can hit threes and free throws. And swapping Grimes for a natural 3&D SF/PF.

Is there a backup C/PF out there that does most of the defensive, setting picks, passing things that iHart does while also hitting 3s and FT's?

That feels like an almost all star level dude?

The player you mentioned is pretty much a prime Al Hortford. I doubt there is a player like that available right now as that is to rare and valuable for any team to offer up. Odds are there won't be a complete player to be had. There will be things sacrificed and things gained. Question lies in what would be more beneficial for the core group. If what Hartenstein provides is considered that valuable. Then that would ultimately mean moves to change the starting frontcourt instead. In order to cover that lack of spacing and effective FT void from the 4&5.

The true hope of the move would be that the spacing that a PF/C would provide enhances Mitch, Randle & our Gs. Ideally Mitch being supported by 4 out stretch could do similar or more damage than Tyson minus the flu. As he would be given a ton of single coverage in rebounding scenarios who is already an offensive rebounding monster. Similar concept for Randle around the paint or Brunson, IQ, RJ on the attack.

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Knixkik
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12/8/2023  1:05 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/8/2023  1:08 PM
So my thought is this team is really good as is. I think Brunson and Randle are looking good overall and Brunson’s shooting has unlocked a better shooting starting lineup. The Knicks are definitely spreading it a bit too thin with this 9-man rotation when everyone is healthy. D Mitchell and Anunoby are the 2 names that will continue to stand out in terms of consolidation. But if neither becomes an option by this summer, the Knicks will need to figure out something else. The draft is where I see other possibilities.

I would hate to give up on Grimes but with the Knicks having DiVincenzo and Hart on brand new long term deals and hopefully signing Quickley, Grimes may become less of a priority especially after the recent problems. I wonder if a team with multiple draft picks trying to take a step forward, that also has money to spend (okc and San Antonio come to mind) would be interested in trading down a late lottery pick to get Grimes. Grimes would fit nicely on a rebuilding team around a younger star, and the Knicks could take a crack at finding a Diamond in the draft that fits the team and offers some upside.

Knicks could start Brunson, DDV, Barrett, Randle and Mitch
IQ, Hart and Hartenstein off the bench without minute concerns.

A 9th man could be a lottery pick seeing just spot minutes to develop, or McBride until that player is ready.

Just trying to figure a way to balance things out and raise the ceiling of this current group if a star player doesn’t come on the market.
Knixkik
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12/8/2023  1:09 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/8/2023  1:09 PM
martin wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:The small smart moves for better roster construction is swapping Hartenstein for a C/PF that can hit threes and free throws. And swapping Grimes for a natural 3&D SF/PF.

Is there a backup C/PF out there that does most of the defensive, setting picks, passing things that iHart does while also hitting 3s and FT's?

That feels like an almost all star level dude?

Knicks are better off just working with Hartenstein on that part of his game since he’s shown some signs over the years.
LivingLegend
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12/8/2023  1:12 PM
martin wrote:I don't have Insider

I don’t either but Andrew Claudio is a complete buffoon & jackass - other than that I love him.
LivingLegend
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12/8/2023  1:18 PM
martin wrote:
SergioNYK wrote:Bogdanovic and the Toronto players don't excite me at all. I don't think these players move the needle much for us and they will be expensive to acquire. I know it's not popular and the media clowns on TNT won't like it but I'd stay pat and continue to wait for the RIGHT star to become available.

Bogdanovic and OG shouldn't excite anyone when against the backdrop of a superstar.

But could they have short term impact like DRose or Josh Hart had in their mid season debuts? And at what cost and can they then be combined (or make a different player who is on roster disposable) in a trade this summer?

I think those could be key factors in the decision making process.

IMO, Knicks are 2 trades away from being at that top level. Still gotta make the mid sized move (or 2) too.

Doesn’t seem like there are any true star trades out there that would boost this team to true contender status and if any were available and truly stars —- teams like OKC will swoop in with all their assets to scoop up.

I like the idea of the 2 guys above (probably more so Bogey) because cost would still keep most of our assets in tact and could spark us. I like Hunter on Hawks as a wing defender.

Anybody down for IQ/RJ/Fournier for D-Murray and Hunter?

Murray starts at 2 and Hunter 3 ——— Grimes to bench.
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12/8/2023  1:25 PM
Remember when KAT was not good enough for us.
Dude is having really good season and Minny is on the rise.
Remember when we laughed that Orlando would suck. They don't.
Nobody had Indy doing well, but we all know each year teams in the new parity era can and will.
Last year we were that team.
We take Randle for granted.
No villainous teams really. Draymond is hated but Curry is beloved.
hard to root for any team that has Harden.
Remember when we thought IQ was better than Maxy? Time tells. He was the 21st pick. Maxey had to wait his turn but when it came he is ready and will be paid big time for it.
Fans can't predict what they can't see. Enjoy the process...........
Im happy for Indy fans. something to cheer about.
Lakers? Hated them for decades. now, I just admire what lebron is doing and enjoy the history he makes.
Got to find joy in the game besides knicks short comings and trade dreams.
one day before I die, I want to see a parade down broadway......
Knixkik
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12/8/2023  2:09 PM
Nalod wrote:Remember when KAT was not good enough for us.
Dude is having really good season and Minny is on the rise.
Remember when we laughed that Orlando would suck. They don't.
Nobody had Indy doing well, but we all know each year teams in the new parity era can and will.
Last year we were that team.
We take Randle for granted.
No villainous teams really. Draymond is hated but Curry is beloved.
hard to root for any team that has Harden.
Remember when we thought IQ was better than Maxy? Time tells. He was the 21st pick. Maxey had to wait his turn but when it came he is ready and will be paid big time for it.
Fans can't predict what they can't see. Enjoy the process...........
Im happy for Indy fans. something to cheer about.
Lakers? Hated them for decades. now, I just admire what lebron is doing and enjoy the history he makes.
Got to find joy in the game besides knicks short comings and trade dreams.
one day before I die, I want to see a parade down broadway......

I’ve enjoyed the process and the Knicks becoming a good team. The fact is it’s becoming harder to figure out how to make the Knicks better is a reason to be happy and makes it fun to discuss.
KnickDanger
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12/8/2023  3:28 PM
A lot of impatience percolating particularly after bad losses like the one to the Bucks. Multiple trade threads, revival of Thibs grumbling, searching for new scapegoats while Randle plays well. And of course the "getting a star" talk - business as usual. I'm on board with improving the team - who isn't? But the do something/anything reflex over staying the course revives my pre-Rose/Thibs PTSD. I am trusting the brain trust to continue to not cave in to the mob. Trust them to make moves that are prudent if not of the shiny toy variety, just as they have. Enjoying being in play and not LOL knicks.

The litmus test will be come playoff time. If the bed is crapped then get noisy I say. For the time being I choose to enjoy the upward trajectory, as others have mentioned. And the rest will do what they always do.
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