VDesai wrote:Brunson is a scoring guard, but he's generally low turnover/smart with the ball, but he's not a natural playmaker. But few PGs yield Olajuwon comps in the paint. But I think that's why he works well alongside another playmaking guard, so he definitely plays well with IQ and he played well with Luka before...

People get hung up on titles. Especially us old folks. PGs the way they played when I was back in the day doesn’t exist right now. But when you have a special talent like Brunson, you build around him. Like u said, when he’s next to a playmaker he impacts the team better. Grimes is not a playmaker.

Randle was the guy until JB arrived. Now it’s JBs time. We need to build a solid team around him.

BigDaddyG wrote:

blkexec wrote:

VDesai wrote:Brunson is a scoring guard, but he's generally low turnover/smart with the ball, but he's not a natural playmaker. But few PGs yield Olajuwon comps in the paint. But I think that's why he works well alongside another playmaking guard, so he definitely plays well with IQ and he played well with Luka before...

People get hung up on titles. Especially us old folks. PGs the way they played when I was back in the day doesn’t exist right now. But when you have a special talent like Brunson, you build around him. Like u said, when he’s next to a playmaker he impacts the team better. Grimes is not a playmaker.

Randle was the guy until JB arrived. Now it’s JBs time. We need to build a solid team around him.

I think JB made an effort to be more of a playmaker in FIBA. But it still may come down to trust. He's been out most stable scorer since day 1. If you're him and the team needs a basket, he's like "I have no idea what Randle is going to do and I'm the best option. I'm probably better off shooting it it." But that can only take us so far. You've got to build trust in the other guys so they're confident later in the season when the games really count. As an aside, I'm really surprised at how jumbled the offense seems from jump. I expect more cohesion.

I agree with you on trust. But I think he’s just wired that way and understands with the knicks they need as much scoring as possible. Even with Dallas, JB impact was his scoring. Now I haven’t looked up any college stats but as a Knick, he’s definitely looking for his shot first which is fine. He will eventually grow in that area over time.

Offense looks jumbled is a good description. I was also expecting more cohesion when you bring back the exact same starting 5 and even the same bench (besides DDV).

But seems like our chemistry will start to pickup steam soon, especially after signature wins and games we should’ve won but we went toe to toe with some of the best. We will probably go on a nice winning streak once the schedule softens up.

martin wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:

martin wrote:Yeah he is a very good PG, a scoring PG. And he will get his assists. But man, it just doesn't feel smooth to me.

Can’t disagree Martin - for as much as Jalen has the ball in his hands 6 assists is pretty mediocre and the eye test matches that just in terms of vision, creating looks and just pure passing.

Big limits are his small stature (think of small QB), limited length to pass over/around defense and limited athleticism where a guy like Westbrook even at +35 can create angles/space by getting to certain spots. I also think the above factors require Jalen to work very hard to manipulate his defender for his own shot so working very hard to get his own looks.

All that said - my only concerns with Brunson are his D and his body holding up over time. Love him as leader and baller.

I've never watched Brunson before he came to Knicks, so that's my perspective.

I do get that he is short and that'll limit his vision some versus someone who is 6'9" like Magic was but for me Brunson is not much smaller in stature that someone like Nash. It's just a vision thing, he should know where guys are on the court, both defenders and teammates, and it just doesn't seem that way.

It's surprising to me. Last year I thought it was just a getting used to new starting role and teammates thing but I'm more inclined to say it has to do with feel more than anything. Sometimes you got it, sometimes you don't. Brunson feels limited to me.

Yeah - some just have better vision/instincts for passing but could also simply be difference between pass-first (Nash) vs shoot-first (Brunson) mentality.

Thinking of other lefty PG’s Brunson is more in the N Van Excel and I-Thomas (Boston) mold where he is walking in looking to put 30 on you vs looking to get easy shots for teammates —- I prefer the Nash model but most of NBA is now PG score first.

LivingLegend wrote:

martin wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:

martin wrote:Yeah he is a very good PG, a scoring PG. And he will get his assists. But man, it just doesn't feel smooth to me.

Can’t disagree Martin - for as much as Jalen has the ball in his hands 6 assists is pretty mediocre and the eye test matches that just in terms of vision, creating looks and just pure passing.

Big limits are his small stature (think of small QB), limited length to pass over/around defense and limited athleticism where a guy like Westbrook even at +35 can create angles/space by getting to certain spots. I also think the above factors require Jalen to work very hard to manipulate his defender for his own shot so working very hard to get his own looks.

All that said - my only concerns with Brunson are his D and his body holding up over time. Love him as leader and baller.

I've never watched Brunson before he came to Knicks, so that's my perspective.

I do get that he is short and that'll limit his vision some versus someone who is 6'9" like Magic was but for me Brunson is not much smaller in stature that someone like Nash. It's just a vision thing, he should know where guys are on the court, both defenders and teammates, and it just doesn't seem that way.

It's surprising to me. Last year I thought it was just a getting used to new starting role and teammates thing but I'm more inclined to say it has to do with feel more than anything. Sometimes you got it, sometimes you don't. Brunson feels limited to me.

Yeah - some just have better vision/instincts for passing but could also simply be difference between pass-first (Nash) vs shoot-first (Brunson) mentality.

Thinking of other lefty PG’s Brunson is more in the N Van Excel and I-Thomas (Boston) mold where he is walking in looking to put 30 on you vs looking to get easy shots for teammates —- I prefer the Nash model but most of NBA is now PG score first.

Brunson fundamentals are outstanding. That footwork to create space more than makes up for the lack of athletic quickness. He is not as wirery as NVE and not a quick as Isiah Thomas 2.0. Van Excel had a great burst of quickness off a cross over. Brunson blows buy defenders getting them off balance and his pull up jumper is solid from a very strong core strength. NVE was more like SGA but shorter.

GustavBahler wrote:The biggest difference between Brunson's game this season and last season, is his first quarter shooting pct.

36.8 vs. 48.6 last season. Thats a big drop.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/brunson-1st-quarter-shooting-pct

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=brunson+1st+quarter+shooting+pct+2022-2023

The problem as I see it, is JB is still shooting like he's hitting close to 50 percent from the field. Its not registering with JB that he should be more of a distributor when his shot isnt falling. Hopefully Brunson will stop trying to shoot his way out of it.

In the meantime **** FIBA. First Fournier comes back spent after a record setting season for NY. RJ the ironman has knee problems. And Brunson looks like he could have used the summer off.

way too early, we've played 7 of the top teams in the NBA.

Brunson will be fine, last thing he should be doing is trying to change his game based off a 7 game sample size.

Nalod wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:

martin wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:

martin wrote:Yeah he is a very good PG, a scoring PG. And he will get his assists. But man, it just doesn't feel smooth to me.

Can’t disagree Martin - for as much as Jalen has the ball in his hands 6 assists is pretty mediocre and the eye test matches that just in terms of vision, creating looks and just pure passing.

Big limits are his small stature (think of small QB), limited length to pass over/around defense and limited athleticism where a guy like Westbrook even at +35 can create angles/space by getting to certain spots. I also think the above factors require Jalen to work very hard to manipulate his defender for his own shot so working very hard to get his own looks.

All that said - my only concerns with Brunson are his D and his body holding up over time. Love him as leader and baller.

I've never watched Brunson before he came to Knicks, so that's my perspective.

I do get that he is short and that'll limit his vision some versus someone who is 6'9" like Magic was but for me Brunson is not much smaller in stature that someone like Nash. It's just a vision thing, he should know where guys are on the court, both defenders and teammates, and it just doesn't seem that way.

It's surprising to me. Last year I thought it was just a getting used to new starting role and teammates thing but I'm more inclined to say it has to do with feel more than anything. Sometimes you got it, sometimes you don't. Brunson feels limited to me.

Yeah - some just have better vision/instincts for passing but could also simply be difference between pass-first (Nash) vs shoot-first (Brunson) mentality.

Thinking of other lefty PG’s Brunson is more in the N Van Excel and I-Thomas (Boston) mold where he is walking in looking to put 30 on you vs looking to get easy shots for teammates —- I prefer the Nash model but most of NBA is now PG score first.

Brunson fundamentals are outstanding. That footwork to create space more than makes up for the lack of athletic quickness. He is not as wirery as NVE and not a quick as Isiah Thomas 2.0. Van Excel had a great burst of quickness off a cross over. Brunson blows buy defenders getting them off balance and his pull up jumper is solid from a very strong core strength. NVE was more like SGA but shorter.

Was just comparing scoring mentality - not physical attributes of the 3.