blkexec wrote:In a weird way, I think not having a backup PF helps Thibs. Gives him some flexibility during in game rotations, depending on the matchup.

We can go super tall with two centers or super small with 6’4 Josh Hart.

It’s a guards league and we have some of the best guard defenders in the league. Still lacking long athletic wings, but we make up for it in other ways with speed and high defensive IQ players like:

Deuce
IQ
Hart
DDV
Grimes
RJ

They all play bigger than their size. Plus the speed of the game increases as we see with the second unit. So there’s advantages being small.

Let’s see how far this “no legit backup PF” will take us.

ramtour420 wrote:

blkexec wrote:In a weird way, I think not having a backup PF helps Thibs. Gives him some flexibility during in game rotations, depending on the matchup.

We can go super tall with two centers or super small with 6’4 Josh Hart.

It’s a guards league and we have some of the best guard defenders in the league. Still lacking long athletic wings, but we make up for it in other ways with speed and high defensive IQ players like:

Deuce
IQ
Hart
DDV
Grimes
RJ

They all play bigger than their size. Plus the speed of the game increases as we see with the second unit. So there’s advantages being small.

Let’s see how far this “no legit backup PF” will take us.

I think it will take us as far as we can guard stretch 4's . There are no Kurt Thomases/Charles Barkleys/Carl Malone's anymore in this league ( save for Zion and he is bound to spend the second half of the season on the injured list) So if we can guard the occasional Kevin Loves of the league we don't really need the conventional back up 4 like the aforementioned Kyle O'QUINN or Blake Griffin. Our rebounding is top notch and we don't need to clog the paint with another body out there

It's not so much "PFs" as much as we're short. Josh Hart is small compared to other small ball "4s". It's not so bad with our second unit when they push the pace. But it definitely takes a toll, especially in the playoffs. We need another wing with some size.

DLeethal wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

ramtour420 wrote:

blkexec wrote:In a weird way, I think not having a backup PF helps Thibs. Gives him some flexibility during in game rotations, depending on the matchup.

We can go super tall with two centers or super small with 6’4 Josh Hart.

It’s a guards league and we have some of the best guard defenders in the league. Still lacking long athletic wings, but we make up for it in other ways with speed and high defensive IQ players like:

Deuce
IQ
Hart
DDV
Grimes
RJ

They all play bigger than their size. Plus the speed of the game increases as we see with the second unit. So there’s advantages being small.

Let’s see how far this “no legit backup PF” will take us.

I think it will take us as far as we can guard stretch 4's . There are no Kurt Thomases/Charles Barkleys/Carl Malone's anymore in this league ( save for Zion and he is bound to spend the second half of the season on the injured list) So if we can guard the occasional Kevin Loves of the league we don't really need the conventional back up 4 like the aforementioned Kyle O'QUINN or Blake Griffin. Our rebounding is top notch and we don't need to clog the paint with another body out there

It's not so much "PFs" as much as we're short. Josh Hart is small compared to other small ball "4s". It's not so bad with our second unit when they push the pace. But it definitely takes a toll, especially in the playoffs. We need another wing with some size.

So far we are elite D and elite rebounding. And frankly Thibs is never gonna go deep into his bench to play a non rotation player for extra size in a playoff matchup.

Who knows how it works out but the team's best moments this year have come with one big on the court. Last night it was IQ, DD, RJ, JH, and IHart. One drawback to the ground-and-pound philosophy is that often neither team goes on any real runs and the game stays pretty close even if it feels like one team is clearly outplaying the other. So far this year the wing-heavy lineups have been the ones that can create separation/go on a run. I think that's really helpful

jskinny35 wrote:I agree with Martin about RJ being a possible backup 4 option. Also minimizes the pairing of Randle and RJ which doesn't seem great for ball movement IMO.

RJ is the back up and that's fine. But when he is out ? A back up in reserve a tenth man who is more then serviceable is all the team needs.

Offensive game is pretty similar to Randle's. Man-to-Man defense has always been reasonable when he plays as a big man - he can bang. And yeah, a step slow on defensive rotations, like Randle. :)

Basically, he can be the guy that can be Randle if Randle misses any extended time.

The narrative on him would totally change if he had some positive impact on a deep playoff run.

From Katz ^

nycericanguy wrote:More from Katz

No backup power forward needed
It’s not too early to call it. They don’t need one.
A long wing? Sure. Someone to man the Tatums of the world? Absolutely.
That flaw showed even more than usual Monday evening when Thibodeau started Hart in place of Barrett. The first unit has struggled when Hart stands in for Barrett so far this season. But the Knicks were going up against the mighty Celtics, who are lined with brawny wings who would bully tinier options, like DiVincenzo or Quickley.
So Hart, who switches between wing and a backup power forward, entered the first unit, if only because Tatum and Brown are horrifying tests for anyone, let alone a smaller guard.
But let’s get back to Hart’s other role, which was somewhat controversial coming into this season and which, only 10 games in, we can say has not been an issue.
The Knicks employ two centers, Randle and a bunch of guards 6 foot 5 or smaller. They have no conventional backup power forward. And yet, the boards have been no problem — and that’s not just because Robinson is a vacuum.
Robinson is in the midst of a fabulous season on the glass. But even when he’s not around, the Knicks are cleaning up.
The tiny second unit — comprised of Quickley, DiVincenzo, Barrett, Hart and Isaiah Hartenstein — is chewing up the offensive glass and recovering enough defensive boards to stay alive. Heck, when Robinson isn’t on the floor, the Knicks are still one of the NBA’s most dominant teams on the boards. They’re especially adept at chasing down long rebounds.
Remember, basketball isn’t about height; it’s about how you use it. It always stood out that DiVincenzo had a better offensive-rebound rate last season than the man he replaced, Obi Toppin, a more conventional power forward. It’s showing for a second unit that is snagging all kinds of boards, even as Robinson and Randle sit on the bench. Meanwhile, we are yet to see a backup power forward eviscerate the Knicks because they don’t have someone taller than Hart at that spot.
The Knicks could use a big, defensive-minded wing, because — well, who couldn’t? But so far, using Hart at power forward hasn’t hurt them a lick.

Basketball isn't about height but talent..👍😭 I suppose he tells himself " Its not the size of the pen but how well you write....So porn male actors are in the business cause they are all excellent authors.. Size ans skill matter in the NBA. Anyway we need a combo forward with size. I say someone young like Tari Eason or a vet like Batum or Bogdovic from Detroit deals that won't deplete the assets if we make a future big deal

KnickDanger wrote:I'm thinking this whole mess in the Middle East is because we don't have a backup power forward.

It was entirely a fiction that it was a back up power forward that we needed. We needed de depth in the front court. If any of our forwards misses a game, has foul trouble, or a bad match up the roster is not equipped to deal with it at the moment against a good team. Now if you want to make it so dramatic to compare it's level of severity to the middle east that's on you my friend.I just wanted the Knicks to be better then last season for entertainment. They aren't but they are still entertaining and competitive. Maybe they remedy the situation sooner or later. Since you brought up the middle east, I'd say pick a charity and make a donation. Whether it's to an Israeli or Palestinian because civilians are suffering on both sides and we should help as best we can. Peace and blessings ☺️🙏

KnickDanger wrote:

Alpha1971 wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:I'm thinking this whole mess in the Middle East is because we don't have a backup power forward.

It was entirely a fiction that it was a back up power forward that we needed. We needed de depth in the front court. If any of our forwards misses a game, has foul trouble, or a bad match up the roster is not equipped to deal with it at the moment against a good team. Now if you want to make it so dramatic to compare it's level of severity to the middle east that's on you my friend.I just wanted the Knicks to be better then last season for entertainment. They aren't but they are still entertaining and competitive. Maybe they remedy the situation sooner or later. Since you brought up the middle east, I'd say pick a charity and make a donation. Whether it's to an Israeli or Palestinian because civilians are suffering on both sides and we should help as best we can. Peace and blessings ☺️🙏

Just a joke. Absolutely Peace and Blessings.