EwingPSD wrote:

DLeethal wrote:

martin wrote:

EwingPSD wrote:

martin wrote:

EwingPSD wrote:

martin wrote:

EwingPSD wrote:

martin wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:

Alpha1971 wrote:

Clean wrote:At least I am not getting a lot of pushback on my Randle hate this year. People are not getting mesmerized by big regular season numbers to the point they ignore the laundry list of negatives he brings. The part I hate is we have no one to takeover for him when he plays bad now. Obi might be playing like trash so far this season but when he had to play big minutes for Randle he played well for us. I am going to give it more time but I might be eating crow on Obi. I thought he would be better with the Pacers.

I always thought Obi meant more to our team then he would on a lot of other teams. He had a niche that aided the team uniquely to win when he was clicking in the second unit. Obi wanted out because Thibs didn't respect his contribution. When Randall played like he is Obi wouldn't get more time to shine but if Obi made a mistake he would be benched. Can't blame him for wanting to go. But once they gave up on Obi he should have been replaced or a more versatile 3/4. But they didn't add a forward at all. Even to be a 10th man respecting the 9 man rotation. The nine man rotation we have is good but man an injury, foul trouble, back to backs, slumps, or a suspension and we are in trouble.

Watching Obi first few games with Indy and he is still doing the exact EXACT same actions he was with the Knicks - he is doing the 3-point hand offs with occasional fake handoff where he tries to get to basket and he’s still afraid to put the ball down in traffic—- absolutely no advancement of the skill/play set.

If Obi has the exact same role with Indy, I would expect the same results. If Obi is stuck in the corner again.

The main reason why Obi has such good numbers as a starter, is because Thibs allows him to attack from the area near the top of the key as a starter. Not as a sub.

If you gave Randle Obi's role, I would expect similar results.

At some point, it’s just the player.

He had mostly good results in NY.

I think you have a very different definition of Good Results than most.

I look at more then just counting stats

Same.

Doesn't seem like. Obi's efficiency and volume scoring were pretty good over his 3 years. In year 2 his efficiency and volume plus advanced stats were excellent. His plus/minus was positive. Despite the hoopla, the team had a near identical def rebounding % with him on and off all 3 years and team's defensive rating was always better with him on than off. I don't think he deserves credit for the last 2 being the being the case but he wasn't a liability and the team performed well with him. Last year he was disappointing but still worked out to about average efficiency due to shooting tons of 3s and an average connect rate.

It's a hard sell and seems a little surface level to me.

Obi was not a good 3point shooter. In his last year, he shot 34%. He dunked a lot, so his efficiency was very good thru that lens. But that's all he did.

Obi was not a good rebounder, defender, and he was the last person an opponent needed to guard if they even paid attention to him outside of baseline cuts for a lob or rebound.

He could not guard guys on perimeter and you could easily out-strength him in the same way Mitch/Randle does on Mobley.

Also, a majority of Obi's starts were in April last year, and you can't get around that fact, which is not more than half of them. Would you agree with that statement? Delving into deep stats with you doesn't seem like the prudent thing for me.

It's the Frank effect. Everyone thinks when they see these short minute players have good efficiency or advanced stats that they are a diamond that just needs opportunity to blossom. But I think it's just easier to be efficient in limited mins, limited min players are all supposed to be efficient. That short minute impact doesn't always translate to more mins or a larger role.

It took Frank 3 years and a lot more opportunity to have a 20 point game. Frank shot sub 40% from the floor for 3 straight years. He shot around 30% from 3 all 3 years. He scored very low volume. His efficiency, advanced, and every day #s were bad

Frank wasn't a scorer though. His game and impact was weighed by other factors. Obi is a pureblood scorer. That's what he's in the league for. He will be weighed by his scoring.

EwingPSD wrote:

DLeethal wrote:

martin wrote:

EwingPSD wrote:

martin wrote:

EwingPSD wrote:

martin wrote:

EwingPSD wrote:

martin wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:

Alpha1971 wrote:

Clean wrote:At least I am not getting a lot of pushback on my Randle hate this year. People are not getting mesmerized by big regular season numbers to the point they ignore the laundry list of negatives he brings. The part I hate is we have no one to takeover for him when he plays bad now. Obi might be playing like trash so far this season but when he had to play big minutes for Randle he played well for us. I am going to give it more time but I might be eating crow on Obi. I thought he would be better with the Pacers.

I always thought Obi meant more to our team then he would on a lot of other teams. He had a niche that aided the team uniquely to win when he was clicking in the second unit. Obi wanted out because Thibs didn't respect his contribution. When Randall played like he is Obi wouldn't get more time to shine but if Obi made a mistake he would be benched. Can't blame him for wanting to go. But once they gave up on Obi he should have been replaced or a more versatile 3/4. But they didn't add a forward at all. Even to be a 10th man respecting the 9 man rotation. The nine man rotation we have is good but man an injury, foul trouble, back to backs, slumps, or a suspension and we are in trouble.

Watching Obi first few games with Indy and he is still doing the exact EXACT same actions he was with the Knicks - he is doing the 3-point hand offs with occasional fake handoff where he tries to get to basket and he’s still afraid to put the ball down in traffic—- absolutely no advancement of the skill/play set.

If Obi has the exact same role with Indy, I would expect the same results. If Obi is stuck in the corner again.

The main reason why Obi has such good numbers as a starter, is because Thibs allows him to attack from the area near the top of the key as a starter. Not as a sub.

If you gave Randle Obi's role, I would expect similar results.

At some point, it’s just the player.

He had mostly good results in NY.

I think you have a very different definition of Good Results than most.

I look at more then just counting stats

Same.

Doesn't seem like. Obi's efficiency and volume scoring were pretty good over his 3 years. In year 2 his efficiency and volume plus advanced stats were excellent. His plus/minus was positive. Despite the hoopla, the team had a near identical def rebounding % with him on and off all 3 years and team's defensive rating was always better with him on than off. I don't think he deserves credit for the last 2 being the being the case but he wasn't a liability and the team performed well with him. Last year he was disappointing but still worked out to about average efficiency due to shooting tons of 3s and an average connect rate.

It's a hard sell and seems a little surface level to me.

Obi was not a good 3point shooter. In his last year, he shot 34%. He dunked a lot, so his efficiency was very good thru that lens. But that's all he did.

Obi was not a good rebounder, defender, and he was the last person an opponent needed to guard if they even paid attention to him outside of baseline cuts for a lob or rebound.

He could not guard guys on perimeter and you could easily out-strength him in the same way Mitch/Randle does on Mobley.

Also, a majority of Obi's starts were in April last year, and you can't get around that fact, which is not more than half of them. Would you agree with that statement? Delving into deep stats with you doesn't seem like the prudent thing for me.

It's the Frank effect. Everyone thinks when they see these short minute players have good efficiency or advanced stats that they are a diamond that just needs opportunity to blossom. But I think it's just easier to be efficient in limited mins, limited min players are all supposed to be efficient. That short minute impact doesn't always translate to more mins or a larger role.

It took Frank 3 years and a lot more opportunity to have a 20 point game. Frank shot sub 40% from the floor for 3 straight years. He shot around 30% from 3 all 3 years. He scored very low volume. His efficiency, advanced, and every day #s were bad

ironically Frank has the same career 3pt% as Obi.