We don't have someone on the team that plays that style anymore. We didn't rely on that style, so it may not be that big of a key, but we now are fully in the camp of ISO/slower pace type players. When you put Obi out there with RJ, Quick and some others it got them playing a bit of a different game that they probably won't play anymore.

Nalod wrote:

VDesai wrote:I think one thing you can say about Toppin is he brought a different style/dimension to the team when he was on the floor that we don't really have now. He is a big man that could run the floor and was a great finisher in transition and there was occassions (perhaps too few) where he was able to change the complexion of the game or increase our pace and that gave defenses a different look.

We don't have someone on the team that plays that style anymore. We didn't rely on that style, so it may not be that big of a key, but we now are fully in the camp of ISO/slower pace type players. When you put Obi out there with RJ, Quick and some others it got them playing a bit of a different game that they probably won't play anymore.

"We don't have that now"?
New season!

Josh Hart did elevate pace.
I think RJ can.

For the most part, we talk about knicks with some great defense which was about middle of the pack last year, yet we were 4th in offense. Might not be the pretty game we as fans prefer but knicks could score.
Good defense does quicken the pace and create transitional situation. Obi's defense did leave somethng to be desired. Im not ****ting on him but we talking about a guy who played 13 min a game and could not carve out a bigger role. That might be on Thibs, but with Brunson and Jules 1st and second option its not the type of run and gun offense we dream about.
Obi got what he needs: An opportunity to start heading into free agency. That its on a conference rival? It would be a dick move to sit him all year, get nothing because we fear his contribution.
Run and gun part two. We saw RJ shine with second unit and that was in part by Josh and when IQ gets hot the middle opened up. RJ long range improved as his confidence did going to the rim. RJ had a great December and January but awful February and March.
iHart also was a good passer to start breaks.

Players who wore #1:

Ken Bannister 1985-1986
Billy Donovan 1988
Maurice Cheeks 1990-1991
Chris Childs 1997-2001
Anfernee Hardaway 2004-2006
Steve Francis 2006-2007
Chris Duhon 2009-2010
Amar'e Stoudemire 2011-2015
Alexey Shved 2015
Kevin Séraphin 2016
Emmanuel Mudiay 2018-2019
Ramon Sessions 2018
Bobby Portis 2020
Obi Toppin 2021-23

Man, you might think Ken "the Animal" put a curse on that jersey as far as Knicks careers go.

Meanwhile both Frank and Kevin Knox are still hanging in the league! Knox did get big and will again come off the bench for portland.

VDesai wrote:I think one thing you can say about Toppin is he brought a different style/dimension to the team when he was on the floor that we don't really have now. He is a big man that could run the floor and was a great finisher in transition and there was occassions (perhaps too few) where he was able to change the complexion of the game or increase our pace and that gave defenses a different look.

We don't have someone on the team that plays that style anymore. We didn't rely on that style, so it may not be that big of a key, but we now are fully in the camp of ISO/slower pace type players. When you put Obi out there with RJ, Quick and some others it got them playing a bit of a different game that they probably won't play anymore.

blkexec wrote:

Chandler wrote:Obi played soft. All his dunks seemed to be leak outs and back cuts. Someone standing in front of him and he got awkward and soft

no tenacity on D or the boards at either end.

not a good character trait for a Thibs team especially for a PF

He seemed like a great guy though and I hope he does well, but i see why the Knicks decided to move on

I agree. My issue is asset management. He’s the 8th pick and the best we can get in return is two heavily protected 2nds? Gotta believe there was a better deal if we waited. But at this point it’s spilled milk. Hope he dunks on everybody and he’s a regular on espn highlights. The better he plays the more fans will say we screwed up with Obi. I don’t see how we come out winners.

He plays terrible and people will point to the knicks evaluation team.
He plays great and people will point to Rose and company for bad asset management.

Between Obi and this new rotation, there will be plenty of hate threads popping up all season. Just adds to the typical drama Knick fans are used to.

DDV success will help minimize Obi drama.

playing guys like Nerlene Noel over a promising young guy you invested in a lottery pick during a losing season is almost certainly to lead to negative outcomes. The Knicks deserve some criticism in this case and they deserve it regardless of how he plays in Indy.

EwingPSD wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Chandler wrote:Obi played soft. All his dunks seemed to be leak outs and back cuts. Someone standing in front of him and he got awkward and soft

no tenacity on D or the boards at either end.

not a good character trait for a Thibs team especially for a PF

He seemed like a great guy though and I hope he does well, but i see why the Knicks decided to move on

I agree. My issue is asset management. He’s the 8th pick and the best we can get in return is two heavily protected 2nds? Gotta believe there was a better deal if we waited. But at this point it’s spilled milk. Hope he dunks on everybody and he’s a regular on espn highlights. The better he plays the more fans will say we screwed up with Obi. I don’t see how we come out winners.

He plays terrible and people will point to the knicks evaluation team.
He plays great and people will point to Rose and company for bad asset management.

Between Obi and this new rotation, there will be plenty of hate threads popping up all season. Just adds to the typical drama Knick fans are used to.

DDV success will help minimize Obi drama.

playing guys like Nerlene Noel over a promising young guy you invested in a lottery pick during a losing season is almost certainly to lead to negative outcomes. The Knicks deserve some criticism in this case and they deserve it regardless of how he plays in Indy.

Nerlene Noel was not taking minutes away from Obi. Randle was.

At least get it right.

blkexec wrote:

fishmike wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Chandler wrote:Obi played soft. All his dunks seemed to be leak outs and back cuts. Someone standing in front of him and he got awkward and soft

no tenacity on D or the boards at either end.

not a good character trait for a Thibs team especially for a PF

He seemed like a great guy though and I hope he does well, but i see why the Knicks decided to move on

I agree. My issue is asset management. He’s the 8th pick and the best we can get in return is two heavily protected 2nds? Gotta believe there was a better deal if we waited. But at this point it’s spilled milk. Hope he dunks on everybody and he’s a regular on espn highlights. The better he plays the more fans will say we screwed up with Obi. I don’t see how we come out winners.

He plays terrible and people will point to the knicks evaluation team.
He plays great and people will point to Rose and company for bad asset management.

Between Obi and this new rotation, there will be plenty of hate threads popping up all season. Just adds to the typical drama Knick fans are used to.

DDV success will help minimize Obi drama.

he WAS the 8th pick. NOW he's the 9th guy in the rotation, least effective and perhaps most inconsistent player. What's the value for THAT?

You care how pretty your date was in high school or you wanna know how she looks TODAY?

I love OBi, great kid... he played his way into 2nd rounders/salary dump. Blame the Knicks... fine, but other young players have developed and flourished while Obi did not, so the "Knicks dont develop talent" argument is moot. Reality is we hit on the later picked like Grimes/IQ/Mitch and whiffed on the higher ones Obi/Knox/Frank. Drafting is a volume game. Im glad we got SOME of the picks right

Even though I might agree with everything you said, it still hurts to see missed opportunities with these high picks. Sure knocks aren’t the only ones who missed and only 1 team who picked bridges or d.Mitch got it right so I get it.

But damn, it still hurts to see that HS girl you could’ve had, while your current girl now looks like a dump truck. One time is ok but to make that mistake multiple times and sometimes back to back years? You the type to laugh just to hide your tears. It’s ok to cry sometimes. Then move on!

The hope is for DDV to help dry up some tears. I like when he said winning allows everybody to eat, regardless of PT. Wish EF had this same attitude.

EwingPSD wrote:

martin wrote:

EwingPSD wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Chandler wrote:Obi played soft. All his dunks seemed to be leak outs and back cuts. Someone standing in front of him and he got awkward and soft

no tenacity on D or the boards at either end.

not a good character trait for a Thibs team especially for a PF

He seemed like a great guy though and I hope he does well, but i see why the Knicks decided to move on

I agree. My issue is asset management. He’s the 8th pick and the best we can get in return is two heavily protected 2nds? Gotta believe there was a better deal if we waited. But at this point it’s spilled milk. Hope he dunks on everybody and he’s a regular on espn highlights. The better he plays the more fans will say we screwed up with Obi. I don’t see how we come out winners.

He plays terrible and people will point to the knicks evaluation team.
He plays great and people will point to Rose and company for bad asset management.

Between Obi and this new rotation, there will be plenty of hate threads popping up all season. Just adds to the typical drama Knick fans are used to.

DDV success will help minimize Obi drama.

playing guys like Nerlene Noel over a promising young guy you invested in a lottery pick during a losing season is almost certainly to lead to negative outcomes. The Knicks deserve some criticism in this case and they deserve it regardless of how he plays in Indy.

Nerlene Noel was not taking minutes away from Obi. Randle was.

At least get it right.

Sure he was. Julius Randle played 40% of his minutes as a small ball center prior to coming to NY. Obi and Julius never share the court for 200 mins in a season over 3 years. Thibs needs to play traditional 5 at all times including playing guys like Noel during a losing season definitely limited Toppins' opportunity.

That's some new age thinking right there.

Are you talking about Obi's first year where he looked like a deer looking at headlights and Randle was god-like at PF and the team was on some sort of deep playoff team mirage or the next year where Noel only played 25 games?

You got it so twisted up that playing 2 different players out of their norm positions is your base of reasoning of a good start to Obi's minutes.

martin wrote:

EwingPSD wrote:

martin wrote:

EwingPSD wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Chandler wrote:Obi played soft. All his dunks seemed to be leak outs and back cuts. Someone standing in front of him and he got awkward and soft

no tenacity on D or the boards at either end.

not a good character trait for a Thibs team especially for a PF

He seemed like a great guy though and I hope he does well, but i see why the Knicks decided to move on

I agree. My issue is asset management. He’s the 8th pick and the best we can get in return is two heavily protected 2nds? Gotta believe there was a better deal if we waited. But at this point it’s spilled milk. Hope he dunks on everybody and he’s a regular on espn highlights. The better he plays the more fans will say we screwed up with Obi. I don’t see how we come out winners.

He plays terrible and people will point to the knicks evaluation team.
He plays great and people will point to Rose and company for bad asset management.

Between Obi and this new rotation, there will be plenty of hate threads popping up all season. Just adds to the typical drama Knick fans are used to.

DDV success will help minimize Obi drama.

playing guys like Nerlene Noel over a promising young guy you invested in a lottery pick during a losing season is almost certainly to lead to negative outcomes. The Knicks deserve some criticism in this case and they deserve it regardless of how he plays in Indy.

Nerlene Noel was not taking minutes away from Obi. Randle was.

At least get it right.

Sure he was. Julius Randle played 40% of his minutes as a small ball center prior to coming to NY. Obi and Julius never share the court for 200 mins in a season over 3 years. Thibs needs to play traditional 5 at all times including playing guys like Noel during a losing season definitely limited Toppins' opportunity.

That's some new age thinking right there.

Are you talking about Obi's first year where he looked like a deer looking at headlights and Randle was god-like at PF and the team was on some sort of deep playoff team mirage or the next year where Noel only played 25 games?

You got it so twisted up that playing 2 different players out of their norm positions is your base of reasoning of a good start to Obi's minutes.

What are you talking about? There is nothing "new age" about not needing to play a traditional 5 100% of the time. Obi played pretty well after the first couple of months in his rookie season. The Knicks got smacked in the playoffs when Randle couldn't deal with spacing issues created by our paint-bound centers. We continued to play paint-bound centers all 48 mins while the Hawks played John Collins at the backup 5. In year two we never tried them together or reduced Julius' mins despite the losing record, Toppin playing well, and Julius struggling. This year we lost to the Heat b/c the playoff offense collapsed again. Negative spacing created by always playing a paint-bound center was again an issue. The fact that Heat played Kevin Love as a backup center didn't change anything for Thibs. Obi Toppin was never going to play 30-plus minutes a night here if Randle was seen as the cornerstone. There was definitely room to explore him in a larger role though and he probably would have been under just about any other coach. .