blkexec wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

blkexec wrote:My choice is whoever play PG.

Grimes vs Hart
Grimes vs RJ

But IQ is our only reliable PG on the team behind JB, so it's a no brainer.

As far as the SG position, still a no brainer. IQ impact both ends. Grimes is hit or miss on offense. Defense is a wash.

Backup PG is a need. Grimes is stuck in a log jam of guards. And out of all the guards, most play multiple positions. Grimes is strickly a 2 guard. RJ has more size and Hart plays bigger so they can play SF. IQ is a SG with PG capabilities.

I think the comparison is:

Grimes vs DDV

Eitherway, the second unit will be fun to start the season. I can see Thibs rolling with the same starting 5. If so that second unit will be fun to watch.

Starters
1. JB
2. Grimes
3. RJ
4. Randle
5. Mitch

Bench
6. IQ
7. DDV
8. Hart
Open (RJ, Sims, Roby, Toppin)
9. iHart

Looks like Thibs famous nine man rotation to me, with RJ running with second unit.

Where does McBride fit? Several DNPs or G-League again? How long before McBride gets frustrated?

Blk, what about Mcbribe's regular season play, besides your endless rah rah hope for him, has shown that he deserves to be part of a NBA playoff rotation?
Kid has shown that his confidence level is not up to par with true NBA rotation players. Which btw, I am sure is the same in practices. Just does not have the aggressiveness or cold nerves needed. Agree that he has shown signs in G league but have seen this type of player in my days many times. Good but does not have the belief that he is at same level as other good players. Afraid to swing for the fences and fail. Just vanilla when given the chance. Something that keeps the fringe players from making it. Kid has talent. He can play D but so can most good defensive players in the G League. Their have been many who had talent but missed other important qualities needed to excel at that high level. In terms of Knicks future, don't understand wasting time on guys that are obvious borderline NBA players. Except for the fact fans hope that their longshot picks make it.

I will always have “rah rah rah” hopes for lockdown defenders, that will never change.

Also back then he was getting zero mins. Need to see him in action before passing judgement. That was my take. Right now we are past that point and it’s clear to Thibs he’s not better than JB or IQ. So he’s 3rd string which has been the case since D.Rose was bench for him. Thibs saw something to bench his godson.

Right now he’s a practice player who will apply defensive pressure on JB and IQ which will help them in real games. We also giving him PT when someone is hurt and in the g league. There are teams that see his value and trade rumors have been floating around all off season.

So I’m still a fan, if that’s what your asking.

Some see value in EF who’s the polar opposite and others see value in Deuce who’s the opposite but just as valuable to me. Right now both EF and Deuce are on the outside looking in. It’s Thibs world and everybody is just trying to fit in.

I believe defense is something you just have it or not. Offense is something you can acquire. Only time will tell if Deuce offense catches up with his defense. We’ve seen in before in the nba and even in local parks. Not sure the Knicks is the best situation for deuce to gain confidence on offense. Might need a change in scenery.

What is this defense you keep talking about? I only remember how many points I scored. As did the good defensive players sitting in the bench who played decent defense.

Agree about hoping Deuce makes it. As I do about any nice kid trying to break through.
Just honestly don't see him breaking through. And mostly because he does not have the intangibles I mentioned above. When you get your shot, you got to be .ore than average.

Still gotta say he is living the dream. Not such a bad thing to be a bench role player for 10 years in the NBA.

I'm a big IQ guy. I would even have him start at the 2 next to Brunson. For the majority of the season IQ was our third best player and we should play him as many minutes as possible. Our +/- with IQ is the biggest on the team if I remember correctly.

EwingPSD wrote:This is such a hard ? for me. Grimes is better on the ball/POA defender IMO. I think that having a guy that does that and can matched up with most big-time players is very valuable. Grimes's release is so fast and he's really smart. If the shot is what it looks like it might be he's a perfect role-player. He'll get a decent amount of points without taking the ball out of your best player's hands, spread the floor, and give your best players dependable safety valves when they get bottled up. That plus he allow you to hide Brunson and makes the other team's best ball handler/scorer work.

Q is amazing in help scenarios on D. He is so good at scrambling. It is the opposite of when you see Obi take a second to realize where his next rotation is. He flies around the court. He also brings great pace, can shoot, and at times is really really good creating offense off the bounce.

I don't know I think it depends on you see them developing. Is Q a dependable creator every night off the dribble? Will Grimes develop into a volume 3-point shooter in the ilk of Buddy Hield?

Cliche but I think Grimes has a higher floor and Q has a higher ceiling

I think yes. The form is pure. I call him H2.0. I think Grimes tries to shoot off the dribble too much and he is very inconsistent when shooting off the dribble. He is a much better catch and shoot player. I would like to see us set more screens for Grimes to get him space. We really don't have anyone who can set a great screen except maybe Sims and he doesn't play much.

EwingPSD wrote:

DLeethal wrote:The copout response to me is "depends on the rest of the roster".

Agreed. On defensive i think Josh Hart does bring a lot of what makes Grimes unique. If we can get him up to 7 attempts from 3 :)

True - "depends on the roster" to me really means whether or not we add another "star" scorer and need Grimes as the glue in the starting lineup. But in that scenario, assuming the star is in the mold of Mitchell or Lavine or something, Josh Hart actually plays the glue role pretty well too.

IQ's versatility is unique, can't find guys like him that can be a top 6th man, top "fill in" starting PG, capable 2-guard when needed, on/off ball doesn't matter, relentless defense.

As I'm typing this though, could Divencenzo give you most of that too?

We would be set at point for the next 6-7 years at least. At SG until Brunson's contract expires, or sooner.

In the meantime we'd have a player who has shown he can play at a high level as a starting PG as well as an SG. Good in the short and long term. Makes it easier for the FO to focus on other positions IMO. Less to worry about.

stillafan wrote:

DLeethal wrote:

EwingPSD wrote:

DLeethal wrote:The copout response to me is "depends on the rest of the roster".

Agreed. On defensive i think Josh Hart does bring a lot of what makes Grimes unique. If we can get him up to 7 attempts from 3 :)

True - "depends on the roster" to me really means whether or not we add another "star" scorer and need Grimes as the glue in the starting lineup. But in that scenario, assuming the star is in the mold of Mitchell or Lavine or something, Josh Hart actually plays the glue role pretty well too.

IQ's versatility is unique, can't find guys like him that can be a top 6th man, top "fill in" starting PG, capable 2-guard when needed, on/off ball doesn't matter, relentless defense.

As I'm typing this though, could Divencenzo give you most of that too?

hey D

I agree with your post. I can't make a choice between these two. However the roster imo does matter because DD gives you better PG play, and the rest is pretty close. I'm a fan of all three big time. The thing for me is will they extend him or not?

so it comes down to if the FO feels they will have an opportunity for that big time player by the deadline. And if yes and IQ is extended it's nearly impossible to move him with the poison pill.
so the issue then is what if team B wants IQ bad enough and now we can't include him? In this scenario i don't see not extending IQ as a bad thing but as a smart move by the FO unless they want to keep him long term. IQ has already put out what he wants and it's a lot for his streaky play but we all see that high potential. But no reason to let him play for his 4.2m and then be able to match any offer sheet out there. It could cost more but that don't mean we can't move him in a trade for that value either.

I hate to do this to Fourn but keeping his 19m and then leaving IQ at 4.2m you have some great deadline trade chips available, and his contract is still valuable as a RFA.

But back to the question, flip a coin lol

Roster make up, cost (IQ extension), trade value, trade scenarios (who wants which player and who can we get in return) are all the determining factors. Can't really answer this question in a vacuum.

stillafan wrote:

DLeethal wrote:

stillafan wrote:

DLeethal wrote:

EwingPSD wrote:

DLeethal wrote:The copout response to me is "depends on the rest of the roster".

Agreed. On defensive i think Josh Hart does bring a lot of what makes Grimes unique. If we can get him up to 7 attempts from 3 :)

True - "depends on the roster" to me really means whether or not we add another "star" scorer and need Grimes as the glue in the starting lineup. But in that scenario, assuming the star is in the mold of Mitchell or Lavine or something, Josh Hart actually plays the glue role pretty well too.

IQ's versatility is unique, can't find guys like him that can be a top 6th man, top "fill in" starting PG, capable 2-guard when needed, on/off ball doesn't matter, relentless defense.

As I'm typing this though, could Divencenzo give you most of that too?

hey D

I agree with your post. I can't make a choice between these two. However the roster imo does matter because DD gives you better PG play, and the rest is pretty close. I'm a fan of all three big time. The thing for me is will they extend him or not?

so it comes down to if the FO feels they will have an opportunity for that big time player by the deadline. And if yes and IQ is extended it's nearly impossible to move him with the poison pill.
so the issue then is what if team B wants IQ bad enough and now we can't include him? In this scenario i don't see not extending IQ as a bad thing but as a smart move by the FO unless they want to keep him long term. IQ has already put out what he wants and it's a lot for his streaky play but we all see that high potential. But no reason to let him play for his 4.2m and then be able to match any offer sheet out there. It could cost more but that don't mean we can't move him in a trade for that value either.

I hate to do this to Fourn but keeping his 19m and then leaving IQ at 4.2m you have some great deadline trade chips available, and his contract is still valuable as a RFA.

But back to the question, flip a coin lol

Roster make up, cost (IQ extension), trade value, trade scenarios (who wants which player and who can we get in return) are all the determining factors. Can't really answer this question in a vacuum.

what a nice problem to have two young players that have so much potential and even DD now who is what 26? Only thing this team is missing is the depth at PF, I know RJ/Hart will fill in admirably but not sure how that will work say in the East Championship game? Guess that depends on who we are playing as well. Butler plays PF. Tatum plays some PF. Tobia plays PF, taller but he's not exactly a pounding type player.

The minutes to keep everyone happy? IQ is no lock to sign an extension. If he tests FA anything can happen and probably will. Some team needing a starting PG is going to throw money at him. At say 33M, is IQ still your guy next season in a bench role? We could lose him for nothing. Either extend him or trade him. I’m starting to think a good number for IQ is 28M, and he’s going to want to start

Only see one downside to extending IQ, you can't move him in a big time trade if one pops up and lately they seem to pop up. Tough decision for Leon for sure.

IMO IQ is better than Poole if you look at both sides of the court and Poole got 28.7m to start, but again imo that could be a bad contract or he may light it up in Wash now.

Is he valued with Herro? He'll get 27m to start next year.

Simons is a good young player who got a 4/100 deal.

I love IQ, and I mean a lot, but I also feel Knick fans think higher of him then around the league, but we shall see how this all unwinds soon enough. Right now i'm guessing the focus in the FO is to extend him, and if yes for what value, or not and save him for an inclusion in a trade up to the deadline or even in FA since he'll be a RFA.

I like Grimes as well and making all of 2.4 and then in IQ's situation not till next year at this time could be valuable.

anyone ever look at Grimes/IQ stats and compare last year? Pretty similar, Grimes actually has a 60%-53.7% advantage in eFG%, and has less usage. If DD wasn't our FA pickup I'd hands down go with IQ as the keeper but now it's a coin flip for me.

I'm hoping Grimes who is 22 figures out when he can slow it down a bit, I love his H2O quick release and similar form but once he learns to just slow it down a bit when he can he can take that 39% three point shooting and bring it up to top 5 area in the league 43% and better.

FYI DD shot 40% last year from three, he's going to be fun to watch, he's that Charlie hustle type, nice pick up for sure.

DLeethal wrote:

stillafan wrote:Has IQ made it known he wants to start? I'm curious because I have not read that anywhere? Rumors are he wants 9 figures.

Only see one downside to extending IQ, you can't move him in a big time trade if one pops up and lately they seem to pop up. Tough decision for Leon for sure.

IMO IQ is better than Poole if you look at both sides of the court and Poole got 28.7m to start, but again imo that could be a bad contract or he may light it up in Wash now.

Is he valued with Herro? He'll get 27m to start next year.

Simons is a good young player who got a 4/100 deal.

I love IQ, and I mean a lot, but I also feel Knick fans think higher of him then around the league, but we shall see how this all unwinds soon enough. Right now i'm guessing the focus in the FO is to extend him, and if yes for what value, or not and save him for an inclusion in a trade up to the deadline or even in FA since he'll be a RFA.

I like Grimes as well and making all of 2.4 and then in IQ's situation not till next year at this time could be valuable.

anyone ever look at Grimes/IQ stats and compare last year? Pretty similar, Grimes actually has a 60%-53.7% advantage in eFG%, and has less usage. If DD wasn't our FA pickup I'd hands down go with IQ as the keeper but now it's a coin flip for me.

I'm hoping Grimes who is 22 figures out when he can slow it down a bit, I love his H2O quick release and similar form but once he learns to just slow it down a bit when he can he can take that 39% three point shooting and bring it up to top 5 area in the league 43% and better.

FYI DD shot 40% last year from three, he's going to be fun to watch, he's that Charlie hustle type, nice pick up for sure.

There was an article about him being "jealous" (for lack of a better term) of Maxey's role and success in Philly because he believes he is on the same level. It sort of implied he thinks he's a high level young starter of Maxey's ilk.

That said, I think IQ would be fine being a perennial 6MOY type, and swiss army knife in the leagues biggest market, as long as he gets paid what he wants.

I'm not sure of the article but don't really sound like a IQ statement? this kid is very polished, has a future broadcaster career in him lol

I do know this was said:

“Any time you get mentioned with any great players like Lou Williams, anybody that’s won Sixth Man of the Year, it’s definitely something that’s pretty cool,” Quickley said.