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Nalod
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6/21/2023  2:27 PM

I love the notion of blaming Donnie Walsh for speaking that he wanted Steph curry by fans who think that voicing it inspired GSW to draft him one pick ahead.
Pretty stupid actually. Not like GSW was clueless and thinking "Well, if Donnie wanted him, I should take him".

But this kind of lends to what might have happend:

Weeks later Kahn presided over that fateful draft, choosing Rubio and Flynn; reportedly he told staffers they were reminiscent of Walt Frazier and Earl Monroe. Walsh, now the Knicks’ GM, recalls being frustrated: “I did get mad at him. I understand Rubio. But you took Jonny Flynn! He would have been there at 11. And you wouldn’t trade me [the sixth pick] to get Curry.” Kahn ran the Timberwolves for four years, during which time the team went 89–223. This is not the place to rehash the details—that has been done plenty—but it’s fair to say his tenure was viewed as unsuccessful. In particular, he took a beating from fans and media (“You Realize How Badly the T-Wolves Screwed Up the 2009 Draft, Right?” read a Bill Simmons headline). In exit interviews, he doubled down on his rationale; Kelly Dwyer of Yahoo Sports described Kahn as “absolutely incapable” of saying “my bad.” – via Sports Illustrated

There are many who have an issue with "MY BAD".
Kahn is in France running a team there.
We all know Donnie tried to trade up. And lets not forget Curry was not expected to be THIS good!!!
Nalodian theory thinks Dolan Trades him for Melo. Have to go back and look at were steph was at that time with ankle issues too.
Water under the bridge, but Donnie tried.
AUTOADVERT
Knixkik
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6/21/2023  3:18 PM
Nalod wrote:

I love the notion of blaming Donnie Walsh for speaking that he wanted Steph curry by fans who think that voicing it inspired GSW to draft him one pick ahead.
Pretty stupid actually. Not like GSW was clueless and thinking "Well, if Donnie wanted him, I should take him".

But this kind of lends to what might have happend:

Weeks later Kahn presided over that fateful draft, choosing Rubio and Flynn; reportedly he told staffers they were reminiscent of Walt Frazier and Earl Monroe. Walsh, now the Knicks’ GM, recalls being frustrated: “I did get mad at him. I understand Rubio. But you took Jonny Flynn! He would have been there at 11. And you wouldn’t trade me [the sixth pick] to get Curry.” Kahn ran the Timberwolves for four years, during which time the team went 89–223. This is not the place to rehash the details—that has been done plenty—but it’s fair to say his tenure was viewed as unsuccessful. In particular, he took a beating from fans and media (“You Realize How Badly the T-Wolves Screwed Up the 2009 Draft, Right?” read a Bill Simmons headline). In exit interviews, he doubled down on his rationale; Kelly Dwyer of Yahoo Sports described Kahn as “absolutely incapable” of saying “my bad.” – via Sports Illustrated

There are many who have an issue with "MY BAD".
Kahn is in France running a team there.
We all know Donnie tried to trade up. And lets not forget Curry was not expected to be THIS good!!!
Nalodian theory thinks Dolan Trades him for Melo. Have to go back and look at were steph was at that time with ankle issues too.
Water under the bridge, but Donnie tried.

I remember it was 8 and Wilson Chandler to move up to 6. No reason for the twolves not to take that. Such a major what-if.
martin
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6/21/2023  3:38 PM
And Donnie and Kahn were close too, right?
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newyorknewyork
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6/21/2023  4:03 PM
Nalod wrote:

I love the notion of blaming Donnie Walsh for speaking that he wanted Steph curry by fans who think that voicing it inspired GSW to draft him one pick ahead.
Pretty stupid actually. Not like GSW was clueless and thinking "Well, if Donnie wanted him, I should take him".

But this kind of lends to what might have happend:

Weeks later Kahn presided over that fateful draft, choosing Rubio and Flynn; reportedly he told staffers they were reminiscent of Walt Frazier and Earl Monroe. Walsh, now the Knicks’ GM, recalls being frustrated: “I did get mad at him. I understand Rubio. But you took Jonny Flynn! He would have been there at 11. And you wouldn’t trade me [the sixth pick] to get Curry.” Kahn ran the Timberwolves for four years, during which time the team went 89–223. This is not the place to rehash the details—that has been done plenty—but it’s fair to say his tenure was viewed as unsuccessful. In particular, he took a beating from fans and media (“You Realize How Badly the T-Wolves Screwed Up the 2009 Draft, Right?” read a Bill Simmons headline). In exit interviews, he doubled down on his rationale; Kelly Dwyer of Yahoo Sports described Kahn as “absolutely incapable” of saying “my bad.” – via Sports Illustrated

There are many who have an issue with "MY BAD".
Kahn is in France running a team there.
We all know Donnie tried to trade up. And lets not forget Curry was not expected to be THIS good!!!
Nalodian theory thinks Dolan Trades him for Melo. Have to go back and look at were steph was at that time with ankle issues too.
Water under the bridge, but Donnie tried.

Walsh was still a terrible GM/Prez, just like most who took the position here.

https://vote.nba.com/en Vote for your Knicks.
Knixkik
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6/21/2023  4:16 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:
Nalod wrote:

I love the notion of blaming Donnie Walsh for speaking that he wanted Steph curry by fans who think that voicing it inspired GSW to draft him one pick ahead.
Pretty stupid actually. Not like GSW was clueless and thinking "Well, if Donnie wanted him, I should take him".

But this kind of lends to what might have happend:

Weeks later Kahn presided over that fateful draft, choosing Rubio and Flynn; reportedly he told staffers they were reminiscent of Walt Frazier and Earl Monroe. Walsh, now the Knicks’ GM, recalls being frustrated: “I did get mad at him. I understand Rubio. But you took Jonny Flynn! He would have been there at 11. And you wouldn’t trade me [the sixth pick] to get Curry.” Kahn ran the Timberwolves for four years, during which time the team went 89–223. This is not the place to rehash the details—that has been done plenty—but it’s fair to say his tenure was viewed as unsuccessful. In particular, he took a beating from fans and media (“You Realize How Badly the T-Wolves Screwed Up the 2009 Draft, Right?” read a Bill Simmons headline). In exit interviews, he doubled down on his rationale; Kelly Dwyer of Yahoo Sports described Kahn as “absolutely incapable” of saying “my bad.” – via Sports Illustrated

There are many who have an issue with "MY BAD".
Kahn is in France running a team there.
We all know Donnie tried to trade up. And lets not forget Curry was not expected to be THIS good!!!
Nalodian theory thinks Dolan Trades him for Melo. Have to go back and look at were steph was at that time with ankle issues too.
Water under the bridge, but Donnie tried.

Walsh was still a terrible GM/Prez, just like most who took the position here.

Walsh just seemed like he wasn’t capable of doing the job at that point. Whether mental, physical or both. I know he had a great career with Indiana.
newyorknewyork
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6/21/2023  5:02 PM
Knixkik wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
Nalod wrote:

I love the notion of blaming Donnie Walsh for speaking that he wanted Steph curry by fans who think that voicing it inspired GSW to draft him one pick ahead.
Pretty stupid actually. Not like GSW was clueless and thinking "Well, if Donnie wanted him, I should take him".

But this kind of lends to what might have happend:

Weeks later Kahn presided over that fateful draft, choosing Rubio and Flynn; reportedly he told staffers they were reminiscent of Walt Frazier and Earl Monroe. Walsh, now the Knicks’ GM, recalls being frustrated: “I did get mad at him. I understand Rubio. But you took Jonny Flynn! He would have been there at 11. And you wouldn’t trade me [the sixth pick] to get Curry.” Kahn ran the Timberwolves for four years, during which time the team went 89–223. This is not the place to rehash the details—that has been done plenty—but it’s fair to say his tenure was viewed as unsuccessful. In particular, he took a beating from fans and media (“You Realize How Badly the T-Wolves Screwed Up the 2009 Draft, Right?” read a Bill Simmons headline). In exit interviews, he doubled down on his rationale; Kelly Dwyer of Yahoo Sports described Kahn as “absolutely incapable” of saying “my bad.” – via Sports Illustrated

There are many who have an issue with "MY BAD".
Kahn is in France running a team there.
We all know Donnie tried to trade up. And lets not forget Curry was not expected to be THIS good!!!
Nalodian theory thinks Dolan Trades him for Melo. Have to go back and look at were steph was at that time with ankle issues too.
Water under the bridge, but Donnie tried.

Walsh was still a terrible GM/Prez, just like most who took the position here.

Walsh just seemed like he wasn’t capable of doing the job at that point. Whether mental, physical or both. I know he had a great career with Indiana.

He was one of the very few who was given the green light under Dolan to completely tear down and rebuild. Sold every asset for pennies on the dollar. Held on to David Lee who was worthy of a lottery pick, when he knew he wasn't going to resign him. Then traded him for scraps after giving Amare $100mil and no insurance. Hired MDA as his coach yet never got him a PG. Even though that was the most important piece to an MDA offense. Derozan and Jrue Holiday were in that Steph Curry draft. Which he took Jordan Hill who was a dime a dozen rim running big over needed Guard play. With Chris Duhon, Larry Hughes & Nasty Nate as our heavy hitters. Just Turrible

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Alpha1971
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6/21/2023  6:47 PM
Knixkik wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
Nalod wrote:

I love the notion of blaming Donnie Walsh for speaking that he wanted Steph curry by fans who think that voicing it inspired GSW to draft him one pick ahead.
Pretty stupid actually. Not like GSW was clueless and thinking "Well, if Donnie wanted him, I should take him".

But this kind of lends to what might have happend:

Weeks later Kahn presided over that fateful draft, choosing Rubio and Flynn; reportedly he told staffers they were reminiscent of Walt Frazier and Earl Monroe. Walsh, now the Knicks’ GM, recalls being frustrated: “I did get mad at him. I understand Rubio. But you took Jonny Flynn! He would have been there at 11. And you wouldn’t trade me [the sixth pick] to get Curry.” Kahn ran the Timberwolves for four years, during which time the team went 89–223. This is not the place to rehash the details—that has been done plenty—but it’s fair to say his tenure was viewed as unsuccessful. In particular, he took a beating from fans and media (“You Realize How Badly the T-Wolves Screwed Up the 2009 Draft, Right?” read a Bill Simmons headline). In exit interviews, he doubled down on his rationale; Kelly Dwyer of Yahoo Sports described Kahn as “absolutely incapable” of saying “my bad.” – via Sports Illustrated

There are many who have an issue with "MY BAD".
Kahn is in France running a team there.
We all know Donnie tried to trade up. And lets not forget Curry was not expected to be THIS good!!!
Nalodian theory thinks Dolan Trades him for Melo. Have to go back and look at were steph was at that time with ankle issues too.
Water under the bridge, but Donnie tried.

Walsh was still a terrible GM/Prez, just like most who took the position here.

Walsh just seemed like he wasn’t capable of doing the job at that point. Whether mental, physical or both. I know he had a great career with Indiana.

When he was interviewed during his press conference I thought he had early signs of Alzheimer's on full display
MaTT4281
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6/21/2023  6:56 PM
Nalod wrote:
Nalodian theory thinks Dolan Trades him for Melo. Have to go back and look at were steph was at that time with ankle issues too.

That's what gives me solace from the whole thing. I remember Masai making a comment about looking through the Knicks cupboards for young talent when he made Mozgov a requirement at the 11th hour.

Of course, that's if he even made it to the Melo trade and wasn't purged for 2010 free agency and the Summer of 'Bron.

It's one thing to mismanage Jordan Hill. But giving up Curry and watching him become the Hall of Famer he's become? I'd lose sleep over that.

gradyandrew
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6/21/2023  7:45 PM
Bill Simmons has jumped the shark big time from his early days, though I do appreciate him calling Harry and Meghan grifters. Anyway that "KAHN!" reference was hilarious then and still makes me laugh 15 years later.
Nalod
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6/22/2023  5:58 AM
Dolan jumped in and made the Melo deal with Denver.
Donnie was forced on DOlan by the league in the aftermath of Isiah inflicting “Stockholm Syndrome” on him.
In no world does A GM do a 100mm deal with Amare without the owners full support or even prompting. It was nuts. Owners direct GMs to do a job. They cleared cap and Dolan presented to Lebron and his group for “the decision”. At that moment, They laughed out Dolan for his lame presentation and DOnnie wasin a wheelchair and and not feeling well.
Donnie should not have been working. Dolan was fully in charge.
Sorry, walsh has no history in INDY of making the moves that he did as a knick. It was terrible and Donnie was never empowered. GRunwald was hired by Isiah and kept on by Dolan, and it was evident in retrospect Isiah still had Dolans ear. Remember he was rumored to return post Donnie. He freaking was running the liberty.
Yes, fresh off an 11mil payout to ANucha Dolan hires him to run a womens team. Can’t make this **** up.
Fuck blame. Knicks were awful that era. But im not giving it to Donnie exclusively. Dolan in this era had all kinds of exiled execs as consultants. Gabriel form Orlando and even KAHN we in the basement after his minny stint.
newyorknewyork
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6/22/2023  9:49 AM
Nalod wrote:Dolan jumped in and made the Melo deal with Denver.
Donnie was forced on DOlan by the league in the aftermath of Isiah inflicting “Stockholm Syndrome” on him.
In no world does A GM do a 100mm deal with Amare without the owners full support or even prompting. It was nuts. Owners direct GMs to do a job. They cleared cap and Dolan presented to Lebron and his group for “the decision”. At that moment, They laughed out Dolan for his lame presentation and DOnnie wasin a wheelchair and and not feeling well.
Donnie should not have been working. Dolan was fully in charge.
Sorry, walsh has no history in INDY of making the moves that he did as a knick. It was terrible and Donnie was never empowered. GRunwald was hired by Isiah and kept on by Dolan, and it was evident in retrospect Isiah still had Dolans ear. Remember he was rumored to return post Donnie. He freaking was running the liberty.
Yes, fresh off an 11mil payout to ANucha Dolan hires him to run a womens team. Can’t make this **** up.
Fuck blame. Knicks were awful that era. But im not giving it to Donnie exclusively. Dolan in this era had all kinds of exiled execs as consultants. Gabriel form Orlando and even KAHN we in the basement after his minny stint.

You always came off as a person who had a soft spot for Walsh.

If he wasn't well, then he shouldn't have accepted the job. But he did and got paid the millions of dollars in salary. Can paint the picture of him being controlled by Dolan while being sickly. When its clear once Dolan actually stepped in for the Melo deal. He now all of a sudden was his own man and wanted to step down.

An NBA source told ESPN.com on Wednesday that the Knicks yielded to Walsh's wishes on several key terms regarding authority and autonomy in reaching agreement on a four-year deal that installs Walsh as the new team president.

Walsh confirmed his power at a Wednesday news conference.

"He's more or less left this up to me," Walsh said of owner James Dolan.

"His mandate is clear -- do whatever is necessary to turn this team around," said Dolan, who also is chairman of Madison Square Garden.

https://www.espn.com/nba/news/story?id=3325211

Its not exclusive to Donnie. This is a thread that pertains to Donnie so his specific failures are highlighted. Such as drafting Hill over Derozan or Holiday, missmanaging David Lee as an asset, getting crap value in return for Randolph and Crawford. Due to open desperation for (as you would say) Starphuch summer of 2010. That falls under his own negotiation and player evaluation skill level, nobody else. He gave Amare 100mil because if he came away with nothing after throwing away 2 seasons. Selling everyone on the Starphuch summer of 2010. Then he would of been justifiably fired the following summer if not mid season for poor performance as Prez.

I don't subscribe to funneling blame to people based on who I like, or don't like. Which is the root of that Isiah speculation in order to keep Walsh name clean. As all the same, there was no history of Isiah ever tearing down a roster purely to clear cap space. Isiah's history is trading any and every asset he had for pure talent that don't fit together. Isiah also most likely wouldn't have drafted Danilo Gallinari who was imo a good pick from Walsh. Can't fault for injuries.

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ekstarks94
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6/22/2023  11:56 AM
Knixkik wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
Nalod wrote:

I love the notion of blaming Donnie Walsh for speaking that he wanted Steph curry by fans who think that voicing it inspired GSW to draft him one pick ahead.
Pretty stupid actually. Not like GSW was clueless and thinking "Well, if Donnie wanted him, I should take him".

But this kind of lends to what might have happend:

Weeks later Kahn presided over that fateful draft, choosing Rubio and Flynn; reportedly he told staffers they were reminiscent of Walt Frazier and Earl Monroe. Walsh, now the Knicks’ GM, recalls being frustrated: “I did get mad at him. I understand Rubio. But you took Jonny Flynn! He would have been there at 11. And you wouldn’t trade me [the sixth pick] to get Curry.” Kahn ran the Timberwolves for four years, during which time the team went 89–223. This is not the place to rehash the details—that has been done plenty—but it’s fair to say his tenure was viewed as unsuccessful. In particular, he took a beating from fans and media (“You Realize How Badly the T-Wolves Screwed Up the 2009 Draft, Right?” read a Bill Simmons headline). In exit interviews, he doubled down on his rationale; Kelly Dwyer of Yahoo Sports described Kahn as “absolutely incapable” of saying “my bad.” – via Sports Illustrated

There are many who have an issue with "MY BAD".
Kahn is in France running a team there.
We all know Donnie tried to trade up. And lets not forget Curry was not expected to be THIS good!!!
Nalodian theory thinks Dolan Trades him for Melo. Have to go back and look at were steph was at that time with ankle issues too.
Water under the bridge, but Donnie tried.

Walsh was still a terrible GM/Prez, just like most who took the position here.

Walsh just seemed like he wasn’t capable of doing the job at that point. Whether mental, physical or both. I know he had a great career with Indiana.

Incapable....Dude showed up to the meeting with Lebron in a wheelchair...
Nalod
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6/22/2023  12:26 PM
I contend knicks had others in the FO on consult and walsh was not effective.
He was not sick when he took the job.
Im not defending the results. Im defending the man.
Knicks had very strange hierarchy years ago. Thats all. Seems silly to blame him when there are plausible facts that question who was making decisions.
For example he wiffed on Brandon Jennings and flat out owned it.
We learned Isiah did not go away for a long time after Walsh was gone.
Walsh was bought in on the behest of Stern who had to council Dolan why Isiah was a bad idea. Team was a mess before Walsh got there he was ineffective.
Why that existed is what I bring up.
Im not saying Walsh did not make mistakes. All GM's do. But owners set the direction of a team, not the GM.
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