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IQ and Hart extention talk
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martin
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5/25/2023  1:10 PM
What you got?

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fishmike
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5/25/2023  2:23 PM
lock em up. These are core guys. I dont think we need to over pay here. The #s I am hearing feel about right.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
EwingsGlass
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5/25/2023  2:35 PM
I have Hart at 4 years 64mm. I have IQ at 4 years 72mm. I hear the argument to pay IQ, but his disappearing act in the playoffs can't be overlooked. Solid player, but I think I am letting him test the market as an RFA before I spend more. That RFA tag is important. Notably, I had Brunson at 4 years 80mm and understated our salary for him by 5-6mm per year. That said, he wasn't an RFA. I have a hard time seeing him over 18mm on the open market. Even if he gets to 25mm, you can just match it. Make the process work to determine the value.
You know I gonna spin wit it
Nalod
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5/25/2023  2:37 PM
Hart, 4 years, 68mil..........$17per avg. I'd say 4th year team option.
IQ, North of 4 years $86 mil he traded. $21.5 per avg. 4th year Player option.
Nalod
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5/25/2023  2:39 PM
EwingsGlass wrote:I have Hart at 4 years 64mm. I have IQ at 4 years 72mm. I hear the argument to pay IQ, but his disappearing act in the playoffs can't be overlooked. Solid player, but I think I am letting him test the market as an RFA before I spend more. That RFA tag is important. Notably, I had Brunson at 4 years 80mm and understated our salary for him by 5-6mm per year. That said, he wasn't an RFA. I have a hard time seeing him over 18mm on the open market. Even if he gets to 25mm, you can just match it. Make the process work to determine the value.

I tend to agree with you about IQ. If we pay more, we pay more. he'd have earned it and a full season of legitimacy.
BigDaddyG
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5/25/2023  2:45 PM
EwingsGlass wrote:I have Hart at 4 years 64mm. I have IQ at 4 years 72mm. I hear the argument to pay IQ, but his disappearing act in the playoffs can't be overlooked. Solid player, but I think I am letting him test the market as an RFA before I spend more. That RFA tag is important. Notably, I had Brunson at 4 years 80mm and understated our salary for him by 5-6mm per year. That said, he wasn't an RFA. I have a hard time seeing him over 18mm on the open market. Even if he gets to 25mm, you can just match it. Make the process work to determine the value.

Hart at four years, $16M sounds fair now. But throw in future cap increases etc, I can see him getting $18M per. I wasn't really that surprised by Brunson's deal. If you look back at what FVV got, and the way salaries inched up since then, JB's number sounded about right. That's the way you have to look at IQ. I think he makes more than what Fournier got. The question is how much more?

Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
Chandler
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5/25/2023  3:43 PM
I love IQ but if that's the number we need some soul searching. might be too expensive for me at that price

not consistent enough; not clutch enough for THAT money. At that price, the opponent needs to truly fear when the ball is in his hands. I don't think he's at that level yet

i hope Rokas can play back up pg, or Deuce can because i'd like to see IQ in more of a scorer-first role, facilitator second

(5)(7)
VDesai
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5/25/2023  4:26 PM
I would try to keep Hart's contract tied to the same term as Brunsons- 3 yrs 57 mm, something like that. Team option for yr 4 is fine.
IQ I'd give up to 4/80.
fishmike
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5/25/2023  4:54 PM
Chandler wrote:I love IQ but if that's the number we need some soul searching. might be too expensive for me at that price

not consistent enough; not clutch enough for THAT money. At that price, the opponent needs to truly fear when the ball is in his hands. I don't think he's at that level yet

i hope Rokas can play back up pg, or Deuce can because i'd like to see IQ in more of a scorer-first role, facilitator second

he's not. Neither was Brunson especially after struggling in the playoffs as well and Dallas really phucked that up. Luckily we can at least match IQ, but good chance he has a break out year and someone offers him $30mm because teams with cap space will want to throw it at a 2-way guard who's 23.

IQ is in the 18-23 range now. IF he regresses its Duncan Robinson. If he had another big year and we match an offer sheet than its more like a Jordan Poole situation.

I trust the front office. Hopefully we bring them both back.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Jmpasq
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5/25/2023  7:54 PM
EwingsGlass wrote:I have Hart at 4 years 64mm. I have IQ at 4 years 72mm. I hear the argument to pay IQ, but his disappearing act in the playoffs can't be overlooked. Solid player, but I think I am letting him test the market as an RFA before I spend more. That RFA tag is important. Notably, I had Brunson at 4 years 80mm and understated our salary for him by 5-6mm per year. That said, he wasn't an RFA. I have a hard time seeing him over 18mm on the open market. Even if he gets to 25mm, you can just match it. Make the process work to determine the value.

He was the worst player in our rotation in the playoffs.

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Knixkik
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5/25/2023  8:49 PM    LAST EDITED: 5/25/2023  8:51 PM
Lock them both up. They are essentially replacing Fournier and Rose contracts when it’s all said and done, especially when you factor in inflation. In a lot of ways I consider Hart and Quickley to be the culture setters here, alongside Brunson. Those 3 sort of represent what is working in NY identity-wise.
Nalod
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5/26/2023  8:57 AM
Knixkik wrote:Lock them both up. They are essentially replacing Fournier and Rose contracts when it’s all said and done, especially when you factor in inflation. In a lot of ways I consider Hart and Quickley to be the culture setters here, alongside Brunson. Those 3 sort of represent what is working in NY identity-wise.

The future is fluid in many ways. Never imagined this season a year ago even with JB rumors.
Quick role has yet to be defined as he likely seeks to start if not here, then elsewhere. Josh hart is a dog, and thats a compliment but he is a 28 year old role player who has limited offensive skills. As it stands now JB is the QB but this is Thibs culture. They are well prepared, professional the the players meet most criteria to be part of it.

Reddish was not a bad dude, and we don’t know it all, but he did not fit.
Thibian culture is also about the bench guys being ready and they seem to have a unity with the rotation guys.
Jericho is hard to read. He looks baked most of the time.

This team is still a work in progress in my view. We can argue all day long where we think its going but most of us are just guessing. JB in High school and College has the it factor. A year in NY he really showed a lot. For us to truly contend he likley can be the man, but not our best player. For now, Jules is but he is not organically have the leadership qualities. Best player does lead by example often. RJ’s personality at his age has yet to fully develop. Not many players are 22 unless lebron or Magic had that It factor that young. Kobe was an arrogant prick and Jordan had just finished his second year having broken his leg. He was the best player but had yet to learn it was a 5 man game. RJ does not have the physical attribute's of those greats.

But………together they made great strides in the second half of this past season!!!!! They were one of the better teams after the new year and the Hart trade galvanized them a bit more.

Run it back they win 50 games. Not enough “aspirations” from Nalod? LOL, not my job to run the knicks.
gradyandrew
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5/26/2023  9:29 AM
Yahoo is saying Josh Hart is looking at 18 million a year which sounds pretty high.
fishmike
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5/26/2023  11:25 AM
Knixkik wrote:Lock them both up. They are essentially replacing Fournier and Rose contracts when it’s all said and done, especially when you factor in inflation. In a lot of ways I consider Hart and Quickley to be the culture setters here, alongside Brunson. Those 3 sort of represent what is working in NY identity-wise.
100% Grimes as well. I thought Thibs made a statement about his thoughts on Grimes playing him 48 minutes next to Brunson in that game 5 win
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
martin
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5/26/2023  12:10 PM
fishmike wrote:
Knixkik wrote:Lock them both up. They are essentially replacing Fournier and Rose contracts when it’s all said and done, especially when you factor in inflation. In a lot of ways I consider Hart and Quickley to be the culture setters here, alongside Brunson. Those 3 sort of represent what is working in NY identity-wise.
100% Grimes as well. I thought Thibs made a statement about his thoughts on Grimes playing him 48 minutes next to Brunson in that game 5 win

I got it in my head that the team sees RJ, Randle, Brunson as the guys that are slotted (right now) in what everyone views is necessary for the 1-3 options every deep playoff team needs. The rest of the guys are role players who fit around them.

For the role player types, I think the Knicks LOVE Grimes, IQ, Hart, iHart. Smart, 2-way players who go all out all the time. You need that in your role players. They can start in a pinch or be bench guys.

Knicks have 1 guy who is prob a very good #2 or possibly a #1b in Brunson. For me, Randle can be a really good #3.

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martin
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5/26/2023  1:40 PM
haha

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martin
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5/26/2023  3:44 PM
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Knixkik
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5/26/2023  7:09 PM
martin wrote:haha

So true.
MS
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5/27/2023  6:00 AM
Sign them both and don’t look back.

The regular season is long. Harts effort every game is key to this teams success. Just because they didn’t perform in the playoffs against the heat now isn’t that time to get emotional.

IQ is going to improve, energy is important, he has it and he has gotten better. Look at this numbers as a starter.

Thibs is going to drive guys into the ground, need to retain our depth.

Finally getting the player we needed in Hart cost of 2 first round picks, so you can’t not pay him.

Options are limited right now and every player is on a good deal.
Philc1
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5/27/2023  6:48 AM
Knicks gonna knick
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