Denver - altitude; fatigues guys. Lebron was done in the second half. Gassed

You think the Celtics look like **** cause of too many lap dances and Hennessey the night before?

We don’t have a center who can match skill levels. We play 48 minutes limited

fishmike wrote:cmon... both teams are good examples of patience. Rather than make emotionally driven moves they waited and let the players and coaches figure it out and get better.

You think the Celtics look like **** cause of too many lap dances and Hennessey the night before?

yup; knicks too

BRIGGS wrote:Both teams
Play making centers
An additional scoring star
3-4-5-6 quality options
Style of play/ good coaching

We don’t have a center who can match skill levels. We play 48 minutes limited

GustavBahler wrote:Exerpt from the article...

https://theathletic.com/4570052/2023/06/01/heat-culture-miami-nba-finals/

The environment of accountability within the Heat organization is what prevents bad habits and selfishness from festering within the team dynamic. During tough times, those fissures turn into massive chasms as the weight of the world falls on a team.

In Miami, one of the main goals is to stomp those issues out before they gain any light. That’s part of what allows them to be so calm, even when the walls seem to be caving in on them.

“It’s the sacrifice to be here and to give in to what the team needs. I think it’s at its highest right now,” Max Strus told The Athletic. “Everybody’s given themselves to the team. Whatever the team needs, and there’s no ego about anything right now. … That’s Heat culture.”

The constant pressure they feel from within the building also makes things easier for the Heat when the playoffs arrive. Players under Spoelstra always have to feel like they’re on edge. There’s always an emphasis on pushing themselves to win in everything they do.

Hard work isn’t enough; it’s the bare minimum. There has to be a greater purpose behind it. These demands can be too much for some to handle. Some players rolled through Miami and said the organization’s way of doing things was too much for them.

The Heat lifers enjoy hearing stories like that. They prefer an environment where only certain kinds of players can survive. It’s what separates them from everyone else around the league.

Good post. ITs been written before but since they just DEFEATED us its all the rage. Thibs has been accused himself of being over the top. Difference is he rubbed it raw with his FO in Chicago and the players in Minny were too soft.
Miami drafts or brings in these kind of guys. CLT freaking waived Caleb Martin!
Thibs was known to hang out in the summer and come down and start coaching summer workouts intensely.

Thing is you have Riley who built this culture and understands the down years. It happens. That he and Spolstra have gone this long without burnout is amazing. Same for Pop I supppose.
Credit to Spolstra and the relationship with Riley. The trust and honesty has to be there. Eric is not old but he bee head coach 15 years STRAIGHT. Thru thick and Thin. Fan support and calling for his head. Remarkable really.
Not all teams can do it. Not all owners can do it.
Riley been married to same women since he was young. His image and reputation is really quite facinating. Many saw him as a bit of paranoid insecure and phoney. But the results are there. The Lakers HBO show painted him in a bad light. Im not expert to remark on its accuracy. They depicted Jerry West as a bit of a nut too.
No lawsuits or retractions other than “its based on….” Kind of language. The show if even half true was kind of cool. Magic coming in as a rookie and how he got along with Kareem was interesting. Kareem was a bit of a dick then. Very moody.

Nalod wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Exerpt from the article...

https://theathletic.com/4570052/2023/06/01/heat-culture-miami-nba-finals/

The environment of accountability within the Heat organization is what prevents bad habits and selfishness from festering within the team dynamic. During tough times, those fissures turn into massive chasms as the weight of the world falls on a team.

In Miami, one of the main goals is to stomp those issues out before they gain any light. That’s part of what allows them to be so calm, even when the walls seem to be caving in on them.

“It’s the sacrifice to be here and to give in to what the team needs. I think it’s at its highest right now,” Max Strus told The Athletic. “Everybody’s given themselves to the team. Whatever the team needs, and there’s no ego about anything right now. … That’s Heat culture.”

The constant pressure they feel from within the building also makes things easier for the Heat when the playoffs arrive. Players under Spoelstra always have to feel like they’re on edge. There’s always an emphasis on pushing themselves to win in everything they do.

Hard work isn’t enough; it’s the bare minimum. There has to be a greater purpose behind it. These demands can be too much for some to handle. Some players rolled through Miami and said the organization’s way of doing things was too much for them.

The Heat lifers enjoy hearing stories like that. They prefer an environment where only certain kinds of players can survive. It’s what separates them from everyone else around the league.

Good post. ITs been written before but since they just DEFEATED us its all the rage. Thibs has been accused himself of being over the top. Difference is he rubbed it raw with his FO in Chicago and the players in Minny were too soft.
Miami drafts or brings in these kind of guys. CLT freaking waived Caleb Martin!
Thibs was known to hang out in the summer and come down and start coaching summer workouts intensely.

Thing is you have Riley who built this culture and understands the down years. It happens. That he and Spolstra have gone this long without burnout is amazing. Same for Pop I supppose.
Credit to Spolstra and the relationship with Riley. The trust and honesty has to be there. Eric is not old but he bee head coach 15 years STRAIGHT. Thru thick and Thin. Fan support and calling for his head. Remarkable really.
Not all teams can do it. Not all owners can do it.
Riley been married to same women since he was young. His image and reputation is really quite facinating. Many saw him as a bit of paranoid insecure and phoney. But the results are there. The Lakers HBO show painted him in a bad light. Im not expert to remark on its accuracy. They depicted Jerry West as a bit of a nut too.
No lawsuits or retractions other than “its based on….” Kind of language. The show if even half true was kind of cool. Magic coming in as a rookie and how he got along with Kareem was interesting. Kareem was a bit of a dick then. Very moody.

Does Randle get that same kind of love? Should he? Should the Knicks?

Randle got drafted #6. Waived by Lakers for reportedly financial reasons but that was a $9M contract/salary cap reason and had LeBron, etc involved. New Orleans only gave him a 2 year deal with player opt out after 1 year. Is that a MLE type contract give or take?

Decidedly different circumstance but 2 players that were had for free and developed into much better players.

The Knicks best 2 players were signed as UFA's and then put in the position to succeed at a much significantly higher jump. Throw in a near 6th man to boot.

I think the Knicks have the start of a very very good foundation up and down from players to FO. Miami is lucky Boston/Milwaukee couldn't and didn't figure out how to defend that team as well as the Knicks haha homer alert

GustavBahler wrote:

Nalod wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Exerpt from the article...

https://theathletic.com/4570052/2023/06/01/heat-culture-miami-nba-finals/

The environment of accountability within the Heat organization is what prevents bad habits and selfishness from festering within the team dynamic. During tough times, those fissures turn into massive chasms as the weight of the world falls on a team.

In Miami, one of the main goals is to stomp those issues out before they gain any light. That’s part of what allows them to be so calm, even when the walls seem to be caving in on them.

“It’s the sacrifice to be here and to give in to what the team needs. I think it’s at its highest right now,” Max Strus told The Athletic. “Everybody’s given themselves to the team. Whatever the team needs, and there’s no ego about anything right now. … That’s Heat culture.”

The constant pressure they feel from within the building also makes things easier for the Heat when the playoffs arrive. Players under Spoelstra always have to feel like they’re on edge. There’s always an emphasis on pushing themselves to win in everything they do.

Hard work isn’t enough; it’s the bare minimum. There has to be a greater purpose behind it. These demands can be too much for some to handle. Some players rolled through Miami and said the organization’s way of doing things was too much for them.

The Heat lifers enjoy hearing stories like that. They prefer an environment where only certain kinds of players can survive. It’s what separates them from everyone else around the league.

Good post. ITs been written before but since they just DEFEATED us its all the rage. Thibs has been accused himself of being over the top. Difference is he rubbed it raw with his FO in Chicago and the players in Minny were too soft.
Miami drafts or brings in these kind of guys. CLT freaking waived Caleb Martin!
Thibs was known to hang out in the summer and come down and start coaching summer workouts intensely.

Thing is you have Riley who built this culture and understands the down years. It happens. That he and Spolstra have gone this long without burnout is amazing. Same for Pop I supppose.
Credit to Spolstra and the relationship with Riley. The trust and honesty has to be there. Eric is not old but he bee head coach 15 years STRAIGHT. Thru thick and Thin. Fan support and calling for his head. Remarkable really.
Not all teams can do it. Not all owners can do it.
Riley been married to same women since he was young. His image and reputation is really quite facinating. Many saw him as a bit of paranoid insecure and phoney. But the results are there. The Lakers HBO show painted him in a bad light. Im not expert to remark on its accuracy. They depicted Jerry West as a bit of a nut too.
No lawsuits or retractions other than “its based on….” Kind of language. The show if even half true was kind of cool. Magic coming in as a rookie and how he got along with Kareem was interesting. Kareem was a bit of a dick then. Very moody.

It's not entirely new to Knicks fans. We saw this with the Riley Knicks.

I believe what gets Thibs voted the least favorite coach isn't his high standards, or holding his players accountable. It's what more than a few former players have described as selective accountability. I've read strong Thibs supporters wonder why RJ hadn't been benched, or sat more often because of poor play. Or Randle late in games when the wheels were coming off. I don't see the Heat with these issues. Something for the coaching staff to consider in the off-season.

So I believe selective accountability for players is a tricky and should only be for the elite. When I say elite, I'm only talking about a hand full of players. And Randle (to me) doesnt make the elite group. The other reasons Thibs may be voted least favorite, could be his rigid approach with in game strategies on offense and defense. Does a great job with preparations. But when the other coach finds something that works, usually during half time, Thibs appears to be slow to adjust. This is not too bad during the regular season, but in the playoffs, you don't have a lot of time to adjust. By then the series is over.

So if I learned anything from Miami. It's how they coasted during the regular season and stepped up in the playoffs. Also the high IQ players they have (drafted or undrafted). You don't have to be skilled in every category. But if a role player has high basketball IQ with an elite skill like shooting, you can go far. I believe Miami's role players are better than we think. And it clearly shows our roll players are not there yet, but they have room to grow.

GustavBahler wrote:

Nalod wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Nalod wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Exerpt from the article...

https://theathletic.com/4570052/2023/06/01/heat-culture-miami-nba-finals/

The environment of accountability within the Heat organization is what prevents bad habits and selfishness from festering within the team dynamic. During tough times, those fissures turn into massive chasms as the weight of the world falls on a team.

In Miami, one of the main goals is to stomp those issues out before they gain any light. That’s part of what allows them to be so calm, even when the walls seem to be caving in on them.

“It’s the sacrifice to be here and to give in to what the team needs. I think it’s at its highest right now,” Max Strus told The Athletic. “Everybody’s given themselves to the team. Whatever the team needs, and there’s no ego about anything right now. … That’s Heat culture.”

The constant pressure they feel from within the building also makes things easier for the Heat when the playoffs arrive. Players under Spoelstra always have to feel like they’re on edge. There’s always an emphasis on pushing themselves to win in everything they do.

Hard work isn’t enough; it’s the bare minimum. There has to be a greater purpose behind it. These demands can be too much for some to handle. Some players rolled through Miami and said the organization’s way of doing things was too much for them.

The Heat lifers enjoy hearing stories like that. They prefer an environment where only certain kinds of players can survive. It’s what separates them from everyone else around the league.

Good post. ITs been written before but since they just DEFEATED us its all the rage. Thibs has been accused himself of being over the top. Difference is he rubbed it raw with his FO in Chicago and the players in Minny were too soft.
Miami drafts or brings in these kind of guys. CLT freaking waived Caleb Martin!
Thibs was known to hang out in the summer and come down and start coaching summer workouts intensely.

Thing is you have Riley who built this culture and understands the down years. It happens. That he and Spolstra have gone this long without burnout is amazing. Same for Pop I supppose.
Credit to Spolstra and the relationship with Riley. The trust and honesty has to be there. Eric is not old but he bee head coach 15 years STRAIGHT. Thru thick and Thin. Fan support and calling for his head. Remarkable really.
Not all teams can do it. Not all owners can do it.
Riley been married to same women since he was young. His image and reputation is really quite facinating. Many saw him as a bit of paranoid insecure and phoney. But the results are there. The Lakers HBO show painted him in a bad light. Im not expert to remark on its accuracy. They depicted Jerry West as a bit of a nut too.
No lawsuits or retractions other than “its based on….” Kind of language. The show if even half true was kind of cool. Magic coming in as a rookie and how he got along with Kareem was interesting. Kareem was a bit of a dick then. Very moody.

It's not entirely new to Knicks fans. We saw this with the Riley Knicks.

I believe what gets Thibs voted the least favorite coach isn't his high standards, or holding his players accountable. It's what more than a few former players have described as selective accountability. I've read strong Thibs supporters wonder why RJ hadn't been benched, or sat more often because of poor play. Or Randle late in games when the wheels were coming off. I don't see the Heat with these issues. Something for the coaching staff to consider in the off-season.

I have no knowledge about Miami fans and if they are displeased when a player is left in or not.
Yes, not all players are on equal footing. your big money players are given more rope and perhaps RJ is seen with patience given his age and potential. For all of RJ's warts he has a season shooting 40% from three, has been our most trusted perimeter defender, like IQ, left to grow into better play making, and has grown to go to the rim strong and accurate.
He is 22. The team is committed.

Bill Simmons in game seven said fans in the lower bowl were yelling at Celitcs to beat the zone by "go to the middle". Yelling like your a dad at sones 7th grade rec league.

Fans thing they know better. We don't.

Did Spolestra show up on the list of coaches players want? That Thibs has selective accountability is only an issue if the team is not succeeding. It has. He got votes for COY. Im not concerned if he is widely popular and the reality is if we pay players to come and they don't perform to spec, then they sit.
Like Ef.
LIke Kemba
Like DRose
Like Reddish.

But RJ has sat at end of games plenty so Im not sure why this is a thing with some fans.

None of what you said changes the fact that Thibs is consistently voted to the top of the list of coaches they dont want to play for. The Heat fans had nothing to do with that. Plenty of tough coaches out there.

Thibs get COY for regular season production. You need a deep bench to contend. Hard to contribute from the doghouse.

Patience is a good thing. Its paid off for IQ and RJ. At the same time I believe it sometimes gets to the point where role players like Obi have to be damned near perfect, not to get pulled. Sometimes a player gets too comfortable with the slack they're given. Often shows itself with too much ISO, and not enough passing.

Keeping players ready and buying in is better than them feeling that they have no real path back into the rotation. The more buy in the better.

GustavBahler how have we done in FA since Thibs has been here? Have we signed any impact FAs? Just curious

Chandler wrote:^^ I used to play volleyball at a reasonably competitive level. My least favorite coach was a Turkish guy who used to halt practice to scream at us that essentially every aspect of every play couldn't be more wrong. Hated the guy

That said, i was playing my best ball, and so was the team.

I am not advocating for that style of coaching but just saying...

Then you also have the issue that some might hate them because they're riding pine and they know that will impact their next contract. So they might hate him but that can also be a reflection of selfishness on their part.

Losing will impact the coach's and for that matter pretty much everyone else's contract too. So one can argue it's more important to the collective to win, then it is for the fringe player to be gifted minutes

So I agree with Fishmike that the secret lists are stupid (and probably had multiple entries from Cam Reddish)

For example, i'm sure this is at least referring to the Bleacher report. supposedly had 108 current players asked but it doesn't say how many answered. Of those who did answer 43 % chose Thibs. SO if all 108 answered thatmeans 48 current players hated Thibs the most. Does anyone beloeve that? Point being those lists are crap and just another form of click bait.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10072843-nba-players-vote-knicks-thibodeau-as-hc-theyd-least-want-to-play-for-in-new-poll

lastly for a guy who is supposedly hated he does seem to have a lot of pretty good current and former players who liked him.

Beach or indoor?