Grant has never been a winner unless I’m forgetting and disappears offensively

Butler is as Thibs a player as there has ever been - yes he’s old but I think he’s the most legit in a short term 2-3 year window. His #s have been better than ever, he’s clutch, gets to the line and can also fit in.

I’d say Butler of these 3 and yes I understand he’s OLD.

Another guy I thought of that’s not a star but would be a Thibs guy is Lou Dort for RJ. Could make our D elite with some 3 point shooting at least better vs RJ

IF we move away from RJ I would prefer a big SF who can play some PF as well and is an elite defender, or at least very good. I would look for offense from somewhere else... Grimes/IQ/Hart for example

Nalod wrote:Dort avg’s 14 pts per. Shoots 34% from three.
Rj’s career avg is that including his **** 30% year he is having. His sophmore year he shot 40%.
D’andre Hunter is oft injured shoots 35% for his career.
Dort does miss 20 games a season. He is just a year older than RJ, he is build like a linebacker, and is “thick”.
Not sure he is an upgrade we seek.
FO has to look at who might be the best player at age 25.
Steps. If RJ can get to 35-36% with his other game in tact is the big question. His defense has picked back up.
At 22 he has time. While not stuck in his ways, he has two new starters to work with, still avgs 20 a game, and the team is winning!!!!! Not sure why the fan urgency discuss change when the price to do so is not mentioned.

Yep - not sure Dort is an option just thinking of defenders who Thibs would trust/play but Dort often up and down offensively - plus good points on his missing games.

Regarding RJ his overall plus/minus should tell you why many fans would prefer to swap him out. Most of his advanced metrics - not to mention 3 point shooting are really poor. One could argue we’d be in 4th right now with a more efficient/ better defender replacing RJ minutes.

I don’t dislike RJ the kid - but his game is clunky as hell imo - judge him on his overall metrics.

Last point referencing 20 pt avg on lots of shots with poor efficiency isn’t a positive- imo.

Nalod wrote:If as free agent, who leaves if space need be created?
If trade, who leaves and the void?
And we assume RJ never gets better, all the while Derozen and Butler never decline age injuries?
Grant fits a lot of nice boxes to check. Im not up on his defensive capacity. His pt avg is the same as RJ’s.
The the question is can RJ in the next two years come close to Grants shooting and contributions?
I would Think Grants numbers might drop on a good team. Lets be real, his time in Portland and Detroit he played on some stinkers and numbers were inflated. Denver was a good run for one season which got him paid.
RJ has one thorn to his game and its his long range %. He is coming along nice and the team is doing very well WITH HIM.
Josh Hart gives us JImmy Butler like intangibles at a fraction of the cost. Butlers contract is big. Very big.
Derozen long range shooting has never been a big part of his game.

So I have not looked at stats, but if they are close or have similar stats, I would go with Grant because he's longer and fits the 3&D roll.

RJ is in a separate category to me. Sometimes he looks over matched at SF or too slow at SG, as far as defense. On offense, I think his ability to break down a defense is extremely valuable. And playing him with the second unit is great. But that means Hart / Grimes will play SF and IQ plays SG in the 4th quarter. Most SF like Grant or better, will shoot over Hart or Grimes. So I believe Grant is the type of size we need on the wing and he's a 3pt threat. If we add Grant, he will mostlikely start or finish games in the 4th. That means Grimes or RJ will take a hit. If Grant is the missing piece and if we believe he will have a similar fit and impact as Hart, then you find a way to get him on board.

The main priority is to win a chip. If Grants gets us closer to that goal (he's 28/29 same age as Randle), then you add him. If not, then keep developing within and hope RJ continues to develop into that missing piece.

Knixkik wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:LaVine claimed to be one of the better on ball defenders in the league the other day —— not something I’ve heard him noted for previously.

LaVine would definitely give us a legit shot maker and if given RJ’s minutes/shot attempts would probably be much more efficient.

I think LaVine comes down to exactly what Thibs thinks of him. If he thinks he’s tough minded and coachable we will kick the tires this summer.

My understanding is LaVine is a pretty decent man defender. He’s long and quick. His issue is off-ball awareness. Thibs coached him so it will be up to him I’m sure. The fact he’s been rumored to the Knicks means thibs probably likes him. My opinion is this team isn’t very good without Brunson. They can survive when Quickley and Barrett go off but generally the bad habits of Randle come out. LaVine solves a lot of that. If we go for an upgrade he’s the guy.

Ingram is the guy I would go hard for. He misses about the same number of games Zach does, but he's a true 3, cheaper (2 more years) and might cost less. Their big problem is depth. I would think getting back guys like McBride/Obi with RJ would be enticing for Ingram and not cost us draft comp. When he gets hurt Hart can play there and you go heavy with 3 guard line ups (I want to keep IQ)

MS wrote:I’m not in a rush to give up RJ.

He’s not close to entering his prime he’s still young and still figuring it out.

Teams get real old, real quick in this league and we need to keep pace with younger teams like Orlando, Detriot and Indy.

Team is in a good position and none of those guys puts us over the top. OG and Hunter are always injured especially DJ.

fishmike wrote:OG (Tor) and Hunter (Atl) are the two guys I would pay for. By "pay" I mean flip RJ and another minor asset or two to add him. Prolly wouldnt be a direct trade.

We have gluts of useful players
PG Brunson/IQ/McBride/Rose/Rokus
SG Grimes/Hart/RJ/Fournier

Rose/Fournier are "useful" mostly as expiring deals but Fournier could help a team that needs shooting.

does it make sense to start next with with IQ/Brunson/McBride with minimal avenue for playing time for McBride who is blkexec's favorite player?
Do we keep starting Grimes/RJ when IQ/Hart might be better?

They are good problems to have and I do think we can afford to "run it back" considering the improvement we have seen under Thibs for both youth and vets

So if I could flip RJ and use McBride/Rokus in something that gets me OG or Hunter I would be very happy with that

OG is the better fit...I live in Atlanta and have seen Hunter quite a bit. He's very inconsistent, seems to always be hurt or knicked up (another reason why he's inconsistent), he vanishes on the offensive end (not very aggressive) and the fans consider him a dispointment this year for. He whows flashes, but if the choice is between him and OG, its OG all day.