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question regarding the draft for the Isiah lovers (MS, Islesfan, etc)
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fishmike
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11/20/2004  2:13 PM
We used last years #1 in the Marbury trade. I'm curious if you could have that pick back and redo the draft which player would you take at #16 over Trevor Ariza?

trying to be objective (to Ariza not Isiah) the only two I can really say are Peter Ramos and maybe Josh Smith, but I think Ariza's value is higher than both right now.

Thoughts?
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
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Bonn1997
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11/20/2004  2:31 PM
Getting Ariza was the equivalent of not only keeping our #16 pick but actually moving up in the draft and getting a late lottery pick.
martin
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11/20/2004  2:45 PM
wow, I probably would have gone with one of JR or Josh Smith.

Here is the full list: http://www.nbadraft.net/2004.asp

Man, looking at the draft list (and I have not seen all of the teams with their new players) Ariza could have gone top 10. Easy.
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Kwazimodal
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11/20/2004  2:54 PM
Doesnt Ariza have asthma? Some teams might have had second thoughts and he still would have dropped down lower than one would expect.Its happened in the NBA and other sports with medical issues.
fishmike
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11/20/2004  2:57 PM
chronic asthma, he also had a collapsed lung as a late teen. He's had some tough medical issues... maybe thats part of his demeanor. I can indentify a little.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Bonn1997
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11/20/2004  5:24 PM
Posted by martin:

wow, I probably would have gone with one of JR or Josh Smith.

Here is the full list: http://www.nbadraft.net/2004.asp

Man, looking at the draft list (and I have not seen all of the teams with their new players) Ariza could have gone top 10. Easy.
He was ranked sixth in the rookie rankings in that thread. (I think the rankings were by ESPN).
tkf
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11/21/2004  2:35 AM
The hawks took Josh smith, and That analyst from duke( I forgot his name) oh jay bilas I think, just trashed josh smith and living here in Atlanta and seeing them play, I am starting to agree, the kid is a great athlete but really has no grasp or understanding on the game, he could of used college like Artest could of used a straight jacket the other night... Looking at things now, I would have taken ariza over josh smith for sure.. JR, I haven't seen much of him....
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
fishmike
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11/22/2004  10:23 AM
Islesfan? Briggs?
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
djsunyc
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11/22/2004  10:26 AM
knicks playing well as of late.

finished up the dallas trip strong.

impressive showing at home.

we won't be hearing from them until we lose two in a row.
NYKBocker
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11/22/2004  10:35 AM
I hate to admit this but I would have picked Pavel Podkolzin "The Russian Bear" at 16.

Since hindsight is 20/20, Ariza would definitely be a lottery pick if everyone had a crystal ball.
MS
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11/22/2004  10:35 AM
Ariza, would have been a steal at the 16th pick, however I would have liked to take a chance on Josh Smith and stil have Ariza (but only if we had him) and have the coaching staff availble to tutor the kid on fundmentals. Also the 7-0 Harrision on the Pacers looks like he could be a decent player

Ariza is an all-star in waiting, and we are not talking Lavor Postell. I am not an Isiah fan, but give him his credit on this one. The kid has a nose for the ball and makes things happen around the rim. Also i like the fact that he seems grounded and humble two things you can never find in this ****y league.

He is going to need to add 15 pounds and a jumpshot in the next three years, but look for him to be an all-star by the time he is 22 or 23. He jumps, rebounds, and plays defense. He just needs to learn the game.

Best pick we have had in the last 10 years. I am sold
djsunyc
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11/22/2004  10:42 AM
Posted by MS:

I am not an Isiah fan, but give him his credit on this one.

that's all i ask.

you can hate on isiah all you want but give him credit where he desrves. so many haters here do nothing but stress what they don't like. never do they give him credit. good post.
fishmike
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11/22/2004  11:05 AM
personally I think people get too caught up in personalities. I hated Isiah before he was a Knick, I thought he was an bad game coach with Indiana and I thought he was dirty player (that I would have liked on my team) with Det.

The minute he got here I was excited for 3 reasons. He knows how to win in the NBA, he knows talent and has drafted and developed well no matter where he's been and he's NOT Scott Layden.

I just want the Knicks to be good. I dont care if Isiah, Santa Claus, Jesus Christ or Martha Stewart is the GM that does it, so long as the results are there.

Thats just me... I hated Layden because he sucked, but thats it. I dont think I could hate any GM, player, or coach that could have takin this job the way some people seem to hate Isiah. I just dont care... give me a team worth watching and when you lose for 3 years give me a team I think will be worth watching for years to come.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
crzymdups
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11/22/2004  1:13 PM
Funny thing about Isiah is everyone was trashing him for drafting Fred Jones, saying Fred went way too high. Now, he's going to be the leading scorer in Indiana for the next three months - by default, obviously, but still it's funny that his picks have a habit of working.
¿ △ ?
fishmike
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11/22/2004  1:16 PM
Fred's been hard to judge because he's been stuck behind some pretty good wing players, but your right, we will get a good long look at him now.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
islesfan
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11/22/2004  8:25 PM
I'm not sure what you're looking for here. I never said that Ariza was a bad pick. He might very well turn out to be a very good pick but I'm certainly not about to talk him up as a future all star at this point. It's incredibly premature to talk about him as a productive starter much less a future all star. All the guy has proven is that he can run and jump. His basketball IQ and skills are still very immature. Can he learn how to shoot before we annoint him as the second coming?

As for the #1 pick for the Marbury trade. It wasn't just the pick that made that trade lopsided. It was giving up a ton in tradeable assets in 1 trade for a player who has never won.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
fishmike
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11/22/2004  9:17 PM
I'm looking for an answer to the question. One of the reasons you killed the Marbury trade was the draft pick and the ability to improve the team.

I will repeat the question. If you had the pick back who would you select at that spot? This isnt a loaded question, I'm curious who you like better than Ariza at #16
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Bonn1997
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11/22/2004  9:41 PM
Posted by islesfan:

I'm not sure what you're looking for here. I never said that Ariza was a bad pick. He might very well turn out to be a very good pick but I'm certainly not about to talk him up as a future all star at this point. It's incredibly premature to talk about him as a productive starter much less a future all star. All the guy has proven is that he can run and jump. His basketball IQ and skills are still very immature. Can he learn how to shoot before we annoint him as the second coming?

As for the #1 pick for the Marbury trade. It wasn't just the pick that made that trade lopsided. It was giving up a ton in tradeable assets in 1 trade for a player who has never won.
The part I hated was giving up Eisley and Vaginaic. Those were invaluable trade assets

[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 11/22/2004 21:43:02]
Bonn1997
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11/22/2004  9:44 PM
Posted by islesfan:

I'm not sure what you're looking for here. I never said that Ariza was a bad pick. He might very well turn out to be a very good pick but I'm certainly not about to talk him up as a future all star at this point. It's incredibly premature to talk about him as a productive starter much less a future all star.

SO...Which players drafted around 16 are you ready to talk up as future all stars? OR is Ariza just as good as (if not better than) anyone we would have gotten at around #16 anyway?
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question regarding the draft for the Isiah lovers (MS, Islesfan, etc)
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