Posted by Masterplan:

Posted by djsunyc:

i don't know what was in j.o's head but i will say this:

if a fan gets onto the court, you pretty much can should be able to do whatever you want to get him down b/c you have NO IDEA what he's going to do.

it happens alot in wrestling when a fan will jump into the ring, all the wrestlers just jump on him and beat the crap outta him. granted this is basketball but if you're on broadway and some fool runs onto the stage, either security takes him down or everyone jumps on him.

i don't know if j.o was headhunting but the action of jumping that particular fan was warranted.

that's true. but the problem in this case is the guy had already been hit pretty good, and security was on the way. it seems much more aggression on oneal's part than fear or caution, or even just defensive instinct

There wasn't any security man. They should've been there before that J.O punch. If they weren't there by that time then they aren't doing their jobs. They should get it just as hard as the players. And the NBA should be sued by the NBA players involved for lack of security and protection from fans and oncoming objects thrown.

Posted by Bizzy211:

Posted by Masterplan:

Posted by djsunyc:

i don't know what was in j.o's head but i will say this:

if a fan gets onto the court, you pretty much can should be able to do whatever you want to get him down b/c you have NO IDEA what he's going to do.

it happens alot in wrestling when a fan will jump into the ring, all the wrestlers just jump on him and beat the crap outta him. granted this is basketball but if you're on broadway and some fool runs onto the stage, either security takes him down or everyone jumps on him.

i don't know if j.o was headhunting but the action of jumping that particular fan was warranted.

that's true. but the problem in this case is the guy had already been hit pretty good, and security was on the way. it seems much more aggression on oneal's part than fear or caution, or even just defensive instinct

There wasn't any security man. They should've been there before that J.O punch. If they weren't there by that time then they aren't doing their jobs. They should get it just as hard as the players. And the NBA should be sued by the NBA players involved for lack of security and protection from fans and oncoming objects thrown.

exactly what i said, the NBA should be sued by the players

Posted by Bizzy211:

Posted by Masterplan:

Posted by djsunyc:

i don't know what was in j.o's head but i will say this:

if a fan gets onto the court, you pretty much can should be able to do whatever you want to get him down b/c you have NO IDEA what he's going to do.

it happens alot in wrestling when a fan will jump into the ring, all the wrestlers just jump on him and beat the crap outta him. granted this is basketball but if you're on broadway and some fool runs onto the stage, either security takes him down or everyone jumps on him.

i don't know if j.o was headhunting but the action of jumping that particular fan was warranted.

that's true. but the problem in this case is the guy had already been hit pretty good, and security was on the way. it seems much more aggression on oneal's part than fear or caution, or even just defensive instinct

There wasn't any security man. They should've been there before that J.O punch. If they weren't there by that time then they aren't doing their jobs. They should get it just as hard as the players. And the NBA should be sued by the NBA players involved for lack of security and protection from fans and oncoming objects thrown.

are you sure the guy standing behind the dude who got decked wasn't security? from the footage i saw, it looked like the dude was being helped up by a security guard, albeit an overweight and none-too-initmidating one, and hadn't quite gotten to his feet when oneal went berserk on him. i could be wrong, though.

it bugs me that people are defending the players on the argument, anyone would do the same in their situation. i think the players should be held to a higher standard than the rest of us. their entire, well-compensated careers are based on playing the game with blinders on, not being perturbed by what goes on outside the court. to take out frustrations on a fan is just bravado and aggression. the game is supposed to be decided by skill, not a brawl. still, the case here is an extreme one. artest definitely shouldn't ahve gone into teh stands, no question. but he was provoked and that should be taken into consideration, but shouldn't excuse him.

[Edited by - Masterplan on 11/21/2004 14:46:08]

Posted by Caseloads:

Posted by NYK3:

Word is: Artest 30 games
O'Neal and Jackson 20 games
Wallace 5 games

where did you hear that from?

From Yahoo:
Brawl to prove costly for Pacers

Artest reportedly will be suspended for 30 games. (AFP) Indiana forward Ron Artest could be facing a 30-game suspension while teammates Jermaine O'Neal and Stephen Jackson could be suspended 20 games apiece for their roles in a horrific brawl in Detroit, according to WDIV-TV. Detroit's Ben Wallace reportedly is facing a five-game ban.

Posted by joec32033:


Also, I was wondering if you heard the quote of Stu Jax after a Lakers-Kings brawl in the 2002 preseason....


Several Sacramento players left the bench area and raced down a tunnel leading to the locker rooms, and then-Lakers center Shaquille O'Neal was also at the heart of a second scuffle that followed the initial skirmish involving Sacramento's Doug Christie and the now-retired Rick Fox. Stern, though, did not suspend anyone but Christie (two games) and Fox (six games). NBA vice president Stu Jackson said at the time that "our judgment was that the players who left the bench were attempting to break up the fight and did not escalate the altercation.''

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=stein_marc&id=1927847

funny, If I remember correctly, that wasn't the NBA's stance when LJ, Ewing, Starks and everyone else was suspended against the Heat....

I think the NBA should go on TV an apologize for doing that to the Knicks. Pat Ewing for one was not anywhere near the action. That migh thave cause the Knicks a championship because the Knicks were very good that year.

I want David to apologize to the NY fans for that.

ENYSPREE... If you notice it is not the guy that Artest punched that O'neal punches. Its his friend that runs over after the first guy gets hit. Then he falls over when his friend falls to the ground trying to go after Artest. Then that guy tries to get up and go after Artest again and O'neal ends that attempt pretty quickly. Yes O'neal should not have done that, but just because he hit the guy really hard doesnt mean that it was more wrong of him to hit that guy than when Artest hit the other fans.

Posted by EnySpree:

Posted by joec32033:


Also, I was wondering if you heard the quote of Stu Jax after a Lakers-Kings brawl in the 2002 preseason....


Several Sacramento players left the bench area and raced down a tunnel leading to the locker rooms, and then-Lakers center Shaquille O'Neal was also at the heart of a second scuffle that followed the initial skirmish involving Sacramento's Doug Christie and the now-retired Rick Fox. Stern, though, did not suspend anyone but Christie (two games) and Fox (six games). NBA vice president Stu Jackson said at the time that "our judgment was that the players who left the bench were attempting to break up the fight and did not escalate the altercation.''

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=stein_marc&id=1927847

funny, If I remember correctly, that wasn't the NBA's stance when LJ, Ewing, Starks and everyone else was suspended against the Heat....

I think the NBA should go on TV an apologize for doing that to the Knicks. Pat Ewing for one was not anywhere near the action. That migh thave cause the Knicks a championship because the Knicks were very good that year.

I want David to apologize to the NY fans for that.

the rules states no one can leave the bench to go on the court when a fight breaks out...i don't recall if there's any rule about leaving the bench to go into the lockerrooms when a fight breaks out.

& for all you posters who justify Artest's actions by giving the "if it happened on the street" excuse, consider what hundreds of professional athletes have had to endure for countless games throughout history in alot more heated rivalries than the Pacers/Pistons, & there hasn't been 1 instance in the past as bad as this one w/the exception of 1 hockey game i remember involving the Boston Bruins players...does anyone here think Lawrence Taylor or Reggie Jackson have never had stuff thrown at them in their careers?
hell, Jackie Robinson had to endure racist remarks, death threats & people spitting on him too...more pro athletes of today need to think about that instead of trying to portray this tough guy image on a nationally televised game by going after fans they are twice the size of...unless a fan comes onto the court to try & attack them, i don't see any way someone can justify what Artest, Jackson & O'Neal did.

a 1 year suspension for Artest is justified imho, & frankly i thought Ben Wallace should have gotten a steeper penalty as well for overreacting to what looked like a pretty clean foul by Artest...he is preaching to the Detroit media about the use of restraint when it comes to dealing with the fans, how about practicing some of that when it comes to dealing with the opposing players?

These suspensions are ridiculous. Rather than blaming the NBA for inadequate security for their players, they blame players for protecting themselves. I agree suspensions should be handed out, but not to the degree that they were. As far as the fans that came on the court and got clocked, FUKK THEM, they got what they deserved. They shouldnt be on the court or anywhere near the court during a brawl or near fight on the court. I'm just waiting for a player to be stabbed by a fan, and then Stern suspends them for recipicating. I dont like stern and i will be voting for artest and oneal for the allstar ballot. if i were the pacers, i would protest, or if i were the players, i would have a walkout.

Posted by joec32033:TMS...you did not really just compare Ron Artest to Jackie Robinson, did you?

Two different worlds, two different societies, two different cultures.....they are way too different....If Jackie did what Artest did, there may never again have been blacks in baseball.....Jackie was playing for a whole race of people....I think that comparing the two is giving WAY too much credit to Artest and I am a big Artest fan.

my simple point was, there have been countless athletes in the past who have had to put up w/alot worse than Artest did when someone threw a cup of beer on him, & they never charged into the stands to start a riot...Artest doesn't get a pass with me just because that stuff wouldn't fly on the streets today...street rules don't apply at an NBA game, otherwise there'd be a riot almost everytime someone cursed at a player for shooting up a brick in crunchtime.

btw, Jackie Robinson was not my only example...only the most extreme case of a guy who had to put up w/more than anyone could have imagined & always kept his cool on the field...there have been countless more athletes who've played professional sports in this day & age who don't take it upon themselves to lay a beatdown on fans who are half the size they are just to take out their own frustrations & anger over the emotions of the moment after having a beer thrown at them or alot worse things, like batteries, bottles, baseballs, etc...

by the way, how did you guys react over Milton Bradley throwing a bottle into the stands after someone had thrown it onto the field? if he had rushed into the stands to beat the crap out of some anonymous fan who didn't even thrown the bottle to begin with, what would you have said about it? that he was justified in doing it & that it was self defense?