Posted by Rich:

Posted by BRIGGS:

wow. that was unbelievable. i dont blame any nba player for going into the crowd or protecting his right for self-defense. this whole incident would not have happened if it wasnt for that guy who threw the beer on artest. he got pegged by the cup right in the head--where the F is security???????? somehow, someone needed to grab artest right there, but i dont blame ron for doing what he did. thats like saying if i threw a bottle at Nolad's wife, he's going to sit there and smile? no, hes likely to bum rush me in self defense. the bad thing is artest got the wrong cat at first. fred jones took a cheap shot to the side of the face from a big dude and then some fat spanish 21-22 yr olds came out of nowehere to throw down with artest--which was f funny and artest politley flattened him but oneal came in and really jacked him at point blank range
then i thought it was the ugliest part of the incident when oneal wa trying to get out--someone hocks a chair and they pelt him with everything



i know there are going to be some suspensions, but if i am artest jackson jones and oneal--if im given something ludicrous where i lose substatially money, i would go get a court order to have any action stayed. i think if there are suspensions for what happened prior to the bottle OK, but after that, IMHO it's more a matter for the criminal just system than nBA JURISDICTION. THAT WAS SELF-DEFENSE
i really believe that the fans-- the detroit ownership who obtained the security and perhaps the nBA themselves have to take the hit here. once that pelted him in the face, he had the right to protect himself.

I like to fight as much as anyone (maybe more), but from a legal perspective, Artest's (and especially O'Neal's) reactions exceeded the bounds self-defense. Self-defense must be reasonable and proportional. Getting hit with a plastic bottle doesn't permit someone to start beating the crap out of the wrong guy, and O'Neal blind-sided a guy. From an emotional standpoint, I understand and support it, but there is no legal right to do it.

Stern has handed out long suspensions for less.

I agree. Artest should have stood and pointed toward the spot where that cup came from for the cops to go after the guy. Rushing blindly into the stand to punch away at anyone in your way makes you liable IMO. What self was he defending by doing that? Of course we know Artest is not about to control his impulses though, is he?

Posted by Clean:

to the people who say "it was only a cup of beer" i am sure artest did not know that and it hit him in the face so it could have easily taken out an eye. Also like the ESPN guy said even if its a cup of beer you can still press charges. He was in a similar situation and was asked to press charges after a fan hit him in his chest with a beer.

Posted by BRIGGS:

Posted by Rich:

Posted by BRIGGS:

wow. that was unbelievable. i dont blame any nba player for going into the crowd or protecting his right for self-defense. this whole incident would not have happened if it wasnt for that guy who threw the beer on artest. he got pegged by the cup right in the head--where the F is security???????? somehow, someone needed to grab artest right there, but i dont blame ron for doing what he did. thats like saying if i threw a bottle at Nolad's wife, he's going to sit there and smile? no, hes likely to bum rush me in self defense. the bad thing is artest got the wrong cat at first. fred jones took a cheap shot to the side of the face from a big dude and then some fat spanish 21-22 yr olds came out of nowehere to throw down with artest--which was f funny and artest politley flattened him but oneal came in and really jacked him at point blank range
then i thought it was the ugliest part of the incident when oneal wa trying to get out--someone hocks a chair and they pelt him with everything



i know there are going to be some suspensions, but if i am artest jackson jones and oneal--if im given something ludicrous where i lose substatially money, i would go get a court order to have any action stayed. i think if there are suspensions for what happened prior to the bottle OK, but after that, IMHO it's more a matter for the criminal just system than nBA JURISDICTION. THAT WAS SELF-DEFENSE
i really believe that the fans-- the detroit ownership who obtained the security and perhaps the nBA themselves have to take the hit here. once that pelted him in the face, he had the right to protect himself.

I like to fight as much as anyone (maybe more), but from a legal perspective, Artest's (and especially O'Neal's) reactions exceeded the bounds self-defense. Self-defense must be reasonable and proportional. Getting hit with a plastic bottle doesn't permit someone to start beating the crap out of the wrong guy, and O'Neal blind-sided a guy. From an emotional standpoint, I understand and support it, but there is no legal right to do it.

Stern has handed out long suspensions for less.

I don't think this has anything to do with anyone's like for violence. I'll just say this, if someone threw a full water bottle at me[really a fairly heavy blunt object] in a violent manner, Im not going to sit there and ask why. I dont condone violence, BUt I feel that it was an instinctual defensive mechanism that went off and I believe Artest is not the main culprit here. the FAN caused this reaction by committing a real life CRIME. the fan is the one who started the riot and the fan is the one who should take the brunt of punishment. if there is a secondary culprit it is the NBA and Detroit--if this is not true--how did those fat spanish kids get on the floor ready to throw down? they took it upon themselves and the NBA obviously did not have enough security. What do you want Artest to do, let the kid knive him or something? Im not saying Artest was right in anyway, Im saying he had some justifcation in terms of self defense IMHO,

I don't dispute that the offending fans are culpable too, but as you correctly pointed out in your other post, Artest originally hit the wrong guy. That is unlawful. Under the law, every man is responsible for the natural and probable consquences of his actions. Consequently, that a person acted instinctually, however understandable it may be on a psychological level, is not a legally recognized excuse or justification.

As was pointed out above, Artest could have pointed out the offending fan to security.

I agree that the security at the arena was awful, and was a contributing factor to the ensuing violence. The players and fans, however, are accountable for their actions, both criminally and civilly, and the players will also likely be severely sanctioned by the NBA.

Do not discount the public relations aspect to this matter. Segments of the media will be expressing their outrage. Stern will want to send a clear signal that players that engage in this type of conduct will suffer severe consequences, in part, to placate the media.