blkexec wrote:RJ experiment is going on 4 yrs. Are you looking to develop or win a chip? Everything has an expiration date and 4 yrs is a long time to evaluate a player.

Who said give up on RJ?

I said give up on this 3 headed foundation, regarding the starting unit.

This is where I strongly disagree.

Because R.J. Barrett's "expiration date" is nowhere near "expiring". And you know why? Because he's still only 22 years of age and he's still the youngest talent on our entire roster.

Not only that, but fans such as yourself might not realize it (I do) but R.J. Barrett is only 1 of 7 NBA Players (All-Time) to accumulate over 4,439 Points, 1,361 Rebounds, 704 Assists and 411 made 3's before the age of 23. The 6 players? Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, Carmelo Anthony, Kevin Durant, Jayson Tatum, and Luka Doncic.

I'm sorry, but you don't force the youngest player on your team with the most amount of potential and who oozes (future) All-Star abilities to the bench in order to "win a championship"; that makes zero sense.

Last but not least.

Why would New York give up on our trio of Jalen Brunson, R.J. Barrett and Julius Randle when A.) This trio was only formed this year, B.) This trio can win big time moving forward, C.) This Trio is competing without their Starting Center in Mitchell Robinson and D.) This Trio is just getting it's feet (it's just getting started) and E.) This trio is far from a finished product in terms of max chemistry/cohesion (moving forward into the future) and/or F.) This trio of Jalen Brunson/R.J. Barrett/Julius Randle is just getting started (and far from a "failed" experiment.

Last year I created a thread title called "LEAVE JULIUS RANDLE ALONE" and that's because fans were booing him and forgetting all about his All-Star abilities while fans such as myself were screaming to get him an elite PG in order to maximize his potential and now look. I was right. Because he's once again an All-Star alongside of an elite PG in Jalen Brunson

And now I feel like creating a thread called "LEAVE R.J. BARRETT ALONE" but I rather not. Because I feel as if I'm maturing as a poster so this time with R.J. Barrett? I won't create a thread about shutting the freak up about "moving him to the bench". I'll just sit back and watch him develop into an All-Star quality trio (alongside of Jalen Brunson and Julius Randle) because I knew it was there with Julius Randle (I was correct in my assessment) and I know it's there with R.J. Barrett moving forward (because I know how special he already is for being only 22 years old ala the youngest player on our entire roster).

NYKMentality wrote:

blkexec wrote:RJ experiment is going on 4 yrs. Are you looking to develop or win a chip? Everything has an expiration date and 4 yrs is a long time to evaluate a player.

Who said give up on RJ?

I said give up on this 3 headed foundation, regarding the starting unit.

This is where I strongly disagree.

Because R.J. Barrett's "expiration date" is nowhere near "expiring". And you know why? Because he's still only 22 years of age and he's still the youngest talent on our entire roster.

Not only that, but fans such as yourself might not realize it (I do) but R.J. Barrett is only 1 of 7 NBA Players (All-Time) to accumulate over 4,439 Points, 1,361 Rebounds, 704 Assists and 411 made 3's before the age of 23. The 6 players? Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, Carmelo Anthony, Kevin Durant, Jayson Tatum, and Luka Doncic.

I'm sorry, but you don't force the youngest player on your team with the most amount of potential and who oozes (future) All-Star abilities to the bench in order to "win a championship"; that makes zero sense.

Last but not least.

Why would New York give up on our trio of Jalen Brunson, R.J. Barrett and Julius Randle when A.) This trio was only formed this year, B.) This trio can win big time moving forward, C.) This Trio is competing without their Starting Center in Mitchell Robinson and D.) This Trio is just getting it's feet (it's just getting started) and E.) This trio is far from a finished product in terms of max chemistry/cohesion (moving forward into the future) and/or F.) This trio of Jalen Brunson/R.J. Barrett/Julius Randle is just getting started (and far from a "failed" experiment.

Last year I created a thread title called "LEAVE JULIUS RANDLE ALONE" and that's because fans were booing him and forgetting all about his All-Star abilities while fans such as myself were screaming to get him an elite PG in order to maximize his potential and now look. I was right. Because he's once again an All-Star alongside of an elite PG in Jalen Brunson

And now I feel like creating a thread called "LEAVE R.J. BARRETT ALONE" but I rather not. Because I feel as if I'm maturing as a poster so this time with R.J. Barrett? I won't create a thread about shutting the freak up about "moving him to the bench". I'll just sit back and watch him develop into an All-Star quality trio (alongside of Jalen Brunson and Julius Randle) because I knew it was there with Julius Randle (I was correct in my assessment) and I know it's there with R.J. Barrett moving forward (because I know how special he already is for being only 22 years old ala the youngest player on our entire roster).

I hope your right. Been an RJ fan since duke. But you have to use him the right way. I hope all 3 shine and bring us a chip. If anybody knows RJ it’s thibs, who’s been in his corner from the jump. This is why fans are armchair managers. Very easy when sitting in the living room yelling at tv. Glad to see you have faith in RJ and the big 3. I’ll sit back and take a more optimistic approach with everything. Hope for the best. But I’m not holding my breath. I’ve done that too many years now. I’ll just let the results speak for itself. If RJ can stop working on everything and first make sure what he’s good at he can perfect like playing down hill. I think RJs game is like a 4th quarter RB who runs out the clock. RJ puts a lot of pressure on the defense. Some complain about missed layups but not me. I played ball and I know how difficult it is to go 100 miles per hour towards the rim, then hit the brakes with some touch. It’s not easy. But he makes the hard part look east which is getting to the rim. So we’ll see man. Please prove me wrong RJ, that you can coexist with JB and Randle together.

blkexec wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

blkexec wrote:

NYKMentality wrote:

martin wrote:

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Just witnessed one of the greatest Comebacks within NYK Franchise History; the 4th biggest Comeback since dating back to 1996-1997? Memorable.

We were down 33-12 (-21) with 2:25 remaining of the 1st Q.

+

We won by the score of 108-97 (+11).

=

Went on a 96-64 Run throughout the final 45.7 minutes (+32).

That's what you call 45 minutes of pure domination. Slaughtered the hottest team in the NBA dating back to December and destroyed them by 32 Points throughout the final 45-46 minutes of play.

No this what happens when thibs is forced to give RJs 48mins to the role players and second unit. That’s why they won. And that’s how this FO needs to support thibs. Give him a roster that forces him to open the rotation. I rather lose with deuce / Obi and other high defensive energy players. I don’t see how 3 volume shooters (2 inconsistent) works for this team. But RJ off the bench would be special. He will have more of a green light with second unit than with first.

Our starting unit is driven by our two ALL STARS. That’s the foundation we should build on moving forward. RJ and EF (expensive backcourt) can cook off the bench. Bring in OG as a starter replacement (if we are buyers). He fits better next to our two ALL STARS. Or any SF that doesn’t have to put up 20 plus shots and still has enough winning plays in his tool box, mainly defensive IQ.

Agree that RJ has to improve his game. Right now his only focus is his scoring totals. Rarely has any intentions of getting others involved. When his shot is off he loses energy and does not help the team in other areas. Feel that is the culprit in defensive energy. Has to have a better all around feel for in game strategy. Just not a good situational player right now.
However, as I did when many got on Randle, ignoring his attributes, I am going to disagree that RJ should be put on the second unit much less given up on. Also disagree that ANY FO would do what you are suggesting. RJ was the highest recent draft pick. Has been a perennial starter since day 1. He is an elite scorer when going to the basket. Prior to his recent 3pt struggles, he was averaging 16 a game and shooting 44% in previous 16 games. He has a great work ethic and has had no personal issues or problems with team mates. What he needs is development. It is up to the coaches to get him to be a better all around player, have better bball IQ and be a better facilitator. Kid has shown the ability to be elite. At this age, anyone saying we should give up on him has no business ever promoting the Knicks "developing/playing" their youth.

FO would also seem shortsighted if they just extended one of their young players and only half a year later decided to move on. Just not a smart look.
In terms of moving him to bench. Sure, if we want to make knee jerk moves to satisfy our curiosity to what may affect a win or two, you do it. But I thought we were about "long term development?
" If you are looking to develop your top prospect, you never demote him and kill his confidence. Especially, as noted above, he was recently on a nice streak of solid shooting. Think the FO has a couple more years in before they need to decide if RJ is for real. Thibs said it last night. We have young good players. Young players will make mistakes. We want them to get a little better each game" Let's let our yoot develop. Which includes your favorite player and Obi, who you claim brings something on defense. Lol

RJ experiment is going on 4 yrs. Are you looking to develop or win a chip? Everything has an expiration date and 4 yrs is a long time to evaluate a player. Who said give up on RJ? I said give up on this 3 headed foundation, regarding the starting unit. It’s a chemistry thing that’s all. All 3 players are great in a vacuum. But together not so much. RJ and Randle rarely have great games together.

Star J needs room to operate. He needs flow, movement and full court transition play.

Randle and JB is killing in half court sets. So I’m not giving up on anybody. I’m moving assets. Thibs is the one who gives up on players, if giving up means remove from the roster. That’s where your energy should go. I haven’t given up on anybody other than this foundation.

Other than that, you seem to state the obvious about yoots making mistakes. We have vets making mistakes 🤣. Mistakes is part of the game.

You disagree with my suggestion on the FO and I do not remember what your referring to. But the FO should add players that Thibs would play. And stop putting thibs in position like cam. He said he wasn’t in favor of the cam trade yet we still added him. So that’s what I was talking about. Give thibs the players he needs. Then build around that. For example, if RJ was healthy, thibs would’ve played him heavy mins. Deuce or EF would not have impacted the game like they did.

No RJ forced thibs to lean on JB and Randle while managing the rotation around them. Sorry I don’t have a lot of faith in thibs if the FO gave him an extremely deep team. Thibs seems better when you have a set of 2 solid stars and role players around them. I like RJ but he needs a certain team of players around him to succeed. No RJ forced thibs to spread out the mins.

I mentioned Obi because he was on the floor with the second unit that played well. And yes he gives more defensive energy than RJ or Randle sometimes. Yes Obi and the second unit are more consistent on defense than RJ and Randle. Again I’m talking defense and the energy of that second unit gives a lot of defensive energy period. Obi is part of that unit.

In general nyers are impatient because we on a 50 yr drought. It’s ok and it’s understandable. But not giving up on anybody including cam.

I would agree that we have three guys that probably are redundant. 4 years is not enough imo. Maybe back in 2000-2005 when teams were drafting kids after 4 years of college. Not for a kid who is 22. Also, despite the three players not fitting quite well, saying they never will is a different story.

Do not think Thibs gives up on players. Just think he plays the guys that he feels give him the best chance to win. He gave up on Cam but so did the team that drafted him. We can say he gave up on EF, but so did several teams. Maybe it's just that the players he gave up are just not that good in the aspects coaches want.

I was quoting Thibs in regards to mistakes. Feel young players should be expected to make more.

Totally agree with you about the FO needing to be on the same page as their coach. Or you suggesting the Cam trade was made against Thibs wishes?
Saying EF and Deuce playing ONE game well proves RJ should be sitting is a bit of a stretch. One thing I know from playing is that any one at a high level can look like a HOF on a given night. The difference with guys that make it in the league is consistency and steady production. The outer leagues are littered with guys that make Jeremy Lin look like a 20 year producer.

Obi's defense is not good. Do not know why you feel he puts in more energy on defense than RJ or Randle. He often seems out of place and running around like a chicken without a head. That is not the energy we need. Thibs, a defensive coach, agrees.

Cam will not be a talking point in less than 3 days. I know people wanted him to be good but I saw a very raw product. One which needed a lot of patience and growth. Wish him luck in developing. But trust the opinion of now two high level coaches.

Totally agree that NY'ers are impatient.

Keep in mind, my view is always be patient, acknowledge what you have. However, it is also, what is the alternative?
Like Randle, have not seen a trade proposal that both improves the team or is realistic when it comes to RJ.

At age 22...
Brunson was a rookie, averaging 9.3ppg, 3.2apg, 2.3rpg in 21.8mpg.
Julius Randle was a 3rd year player, averaging 13.2ppg, 3.6apg, 8.6rpg in 28.8mpg.

We figure that RJ isn't done adding elements to his game - and that efficient scoring, playmaking, and more aggressive D are still yet to be tapped.

I would love for him to come back to the summer league and play PG, just to get some experience seeing the floor from that role, and so he can also gets some reps of playing more active defense with his hands w/o worry of fouling out.

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NYKMentality wrote:

martin wrote:Nice

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Defense was awesome 2nd half especially against Joel Embiid too. Outside of his 18 phantom made FTs both of Sims and Hart held him up only 13 points from the field throughout the entire game.

In regards to Harden? I mentioned during the 1st Q. He looks out of shape. Like. Really out of shape; must be too many Philadelphia Cheese Steaks.

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martin wrote:Is it me or did this feel like the first time since he signed with the Knicks that Fournier played like FIVB Fournier?

Hitting shots, moving around on defense, making smart plays for others.

Literally the first time in 2 years

Sacre bleu! A trend or a tease?