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Helm Firing
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bernard
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11/19/2004  12:59 PM
Forgive me if I missed a thread on this already ...

But I've never understood when owners/GM's undercut their own coaches by doing crap like that. We get used to it and worse in NY, watching the Boss work his special magic, but that doesn't make it any better. I'm not even addressing Helf vs. Suhr. I have no idea who's better. My point is, if you're unhappy w/ your coach, fire him. Don't show him up in front of your team so he can't be as effective. How do we benefit from players wondering if Lenny is Lame Duck.

Classles, dumb move by IT, imo (and I'll still defend pretty much every other one he's made since coming to the Knicks ... except perhaps his awkward firing of Chaney, who deserved to go, but also deserved to be treated w/ dignity).
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martin
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11/19/2004  2:07 PM
Let me preface this post by saying that I would not be so naive as to condone such a move by Isiah, but here is the thing....

How do you send a message to your players and your coaching staff that their performance was colossally inexcusable?

Here is the setting: Opening Night. At home. In a rockin' stadium. Thousands cheering you on. Lots of prep time. Lots of energy. Plenty of rest. No one hurt. And EVERYONE lays a goose egg. No O, no D, horrible coaching.

The one way management sends a message to his/her employees is to fire an unsuspecting person. That's just the way of things in the world. Some nearly innocent takes the fall so the guy on top can send a clear warning to everyone else without actually having to literally say anything.

Helm happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. That's all. (could also be that there was something else festering with Helm and this was the right opportunity).

If you haven't seen this outside of basketball in the real world out there, it will happen, trust me.
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MS
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11/19/2004  2:29 PM
Number one it is vintage classless, I think i am the main mother in charge, Isiah.

Its not the coaches fault if the players play with no heart or no desire. They should get sick to their stomach getting embarrassed like that, but they didn't because they have losers on the team
Kwazimodal
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11/19/2004  2:38 PM
Ive never been a fan of GMs speaking through the media to get their coach's attention but a few words by Isiah about being disappointed in the lack of energy and that changes needing to be made would have been better than firing one of his remaining assistants.

Its bad enough that Wilkens doesnt have his own hand picked staff.Not sure that would make a big difference but it would show more respect for Lenny.The players see this too and are probably thinking his days are numbered as well.
Andrew
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11/19/2004  2:41 PM
Is Helm the first assistant ever to get fired?
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fishmike
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11/19/2004  2:43 PM
Posted by MS:

Number one it is vintage classless, I think i am the main mother in charge, Isiah.

Its not the coaches fault if the players play with no heart or no desire. They should get sick to their stomach getting embarrassed like that, but they didn't because they have losers on the team
Then why is Lenny not right to coach this team? On one hand guys call Isiah scum for meddling with the coaching staff, blaming the players, but when the players arent playing well its because Isiah made a poor choice for coach.

Lenny knew what he was getting into, he didnt have to take the job or the $4mm a year that came with it. Am I supposed to feel sorry for him?
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Kwazimodal
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11/19/2004  2:50 PM
Posted by Andrew:

Is Helm the first assistant ever to get fired?

I havent heard of anything like this before.Hope it doesnt make it more difficult to find a replacement for Wilkins.
Andrew
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11/19/2004  2:57 PM
Posted by Kwazimodal:

I havent heard of anything like this before.Hope it doesnt make it more difficult to find a replacement for Wilkins.

Probably b/c the NY Media overblows everything.
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bernard
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11/19/2004  4:20 PM
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by MS:

Number one it is vintage classless, I think i am the main mother in charge, Isiah.

Its not the coaches fault if the players play with no heart or no desire. They should get sick to their stomach getting embarrassed like that, but they didn't because they have losers on the team
Then why is Lenny not right to coach this team? On one hand guys call Isiah scum for meddling with the coaching staff, blaming the players, but when the players arent playing well its because Isiah made a poor choice for coach.

Lenny knew what he was getting into, he didnt have to take the job or the $4mm a year that came with it. Am I supposed to feel sorry for him?

Not so conerned about Lenny's feelings as his effectiveness. You're right ... I'll deal w/ a boss who's a bit of an ass for $4 mm/year. Hell, I've done that for long stretches of my career for even less :). But I want the Knicks to win, and for them to have their best shot, they need a coach who the players know they have to lsten to. Here, IT has taken away Lenny's one hand-picked guy. That's got to make it a bit harder for him to do his job. And, more importantly, as another poster said, you've taken away his authority. Every Knick now knows what they already suspected. What lenny thinks isn't near as important as what IT thinks. Responsibility w/o authority is a recipe for disaster.
playa2
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11/20/2004  12:03 AM
I told you guys long ago, Lenny was out of work as a head coach, nobody was knocking down Lenny's door to coach anymore, VC said it best, he thought Lenny was to laid back to be a head coach . Zeke hired Lenny because he knew Lenny at that time had no other offers to coach again and NY needed some kind of credibility(HOF COACH) to bring in after Chaney debacle. When Zeke was at the knicks practice teaching players some things and had a HOF coach already in place that told me right there Lenny was nothing but a puppet until Zeke gets another coach. Say what you want but All HEAD COACHES GET THEIR OWN ASSISTANTS. Zeke acts like a woman who has money and wants to rule the world... a lil bitch.
JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
Helm Firing

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