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Is Trade Season. Is Our Savior walking Through The Door?
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Rookie
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1/19/2023  12:13 PM
Three weeks to go until the trade deadline. The fringe teams haven't tapped out yet or are keeping things close to the vest. We've heard minor rumors about our Knicks like Cam Reddish is available for a 2nd rd pick. We also know the team highly values IQ and Grimes. That doesn't leave much for roster building.

Obi, Rose, Fournier and Reddish have all seen their value and usage drop. Randle's trade value is as high as it is ever going to get. It is becoming clearer that Brunson is the player we need to build around and that we are stuck right now at .500 unless we can add some role players who can shoot. We have a surplus of 1st rd picks to work with if we want to take a big swing.

My prediction. This FO has been extremely conservative. They have a plan and they are staying on course. I don't see any big moves on the horizon. I think they will find a home for Reddish and that's about it. We get that future 2nd rd pick and move on to the 2nd half of the season. Hopefully we avoid the play in and get a first round playoff series.
AUTOADVERT
Papabear
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1/19/2023  12:46 PM
Papabear Says

Look we need a super star and we don't have one. And even with one superstar we will need another one to win a ring. Randel is a good player but a ball hog and so is Brunson. Thibs still has not figured out the 5 player to finish out the 4th quarter.

Papabear
SergioNYK
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1/19/2023  1:23 PM
I don't think there are any saviors on the market right now. I think maybe you could get Siakim, DeRozan or LaVine.
franco12
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1/19/2023  1:38 PM
Before last nights embarrassingly performance of our 2021-22 season, I thought a player like DeRozan could be the piece that puts us into contention for Conference Finals.

Now, I'm not sure we avoid a play in scenario.

We have some nice players that have shown flashes - but we are short of the talent needed for a championship.

We probably should be marginal sellers at the deadline, not buyers.
Panos
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1/19/2023  2:10 PM
If it's me, i would trade RJ + parts for a better complimentary piece. Hopefully someone who can shoot with some court vision to pass . Some speed would be a bonus.
Also for the right piece i would part with Mitch.
Great defense and rebounding, zero ability to score
fishmike
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1/19/2023  2:28 PM
franco12 wrote:Before last nights embarrassingly performance of our 2021-22 season, I thought a player like DeRozan could be the piece that puts us into contention for Conference Finals.

Now, I'm not sure we avoid a play in scenario.

We have some nice players that have shown flashes - but we are short of the talent needed for a championship.

We probably should be marginal sellers at the deadline, not buyers.

So one game was enough to sway you from contender to play in?
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
jskinny35
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1/19/2023  2:32 PM
Agree - we need to tear down and reshuffle around 1-2 better players. Use Randle or RJ (and either Toppin or IQ) + picks to get there! Much easier to retool when you have a better player to focus offense around. A different direction would be to change the offensive scheme to one with more ball movement. Either way one of Randle or RJ will need to go IMO.
fishmike
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1/19/2023  2:35 PM
Panos wrote:If it's me, i would trade RJ + parts for a better complimentary piece. Hopefully someone who can shoot with some court vision to pass . Some speed would be a bonus.
Also for the right piece i would part with Mitch.
Great defense and rebounding, zero ability to score
really hard to tell how patient to be with RJ. He has those games where he shows post moves and passing and slashing and bashing... and other games where you think he would look great playing in China. Is he working on his game? Is he getting better? I would think the staff have the read on him.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
jskinny35
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1/19/2023  2:44 PM
fishmike wrote:
Panos wrote:If it's me, i would trade RJ + parts for a better complimentary piece. Hopefully someone who can shoot with some court vision to pass . Some speed would be a bonus.
Also for the right piece i would part with Mitch.
Great defense and rebounding, zero ability to score
really hard to tell how patient to be with RJ. He has those games where he shows post moves and passing and slashing and bashing... and other games where you think he would look great playing in China. Is he working on his game? Is he getting better? I would think the staff have the read on him.

I think what makes me consider holding on to RJ is how he played much better in the 2nd half of last season when he assumed more of a dominant role. He still has his warts but when the offense ran through him more I felt the ball moved around the court more. Neither RJ or Randle seem to have great vision, passing and/or any exceptional quality that would support running the offense around them. Just feel we've seen enough to recognize the limited ceiling with both these guys playing on the court together. I'd go with youth as there may be more options that way.
fishmike
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1/19/2023  2:51 PM
jskinny35 wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Panos wrote:If it's me, i would trade RJ + parts for a better complimentary piece. Hopefully someone who can shoot with some court vision to pass . Some speed would be a bonus.
Also for the right piece i would part with Mitch.
Great defense and rebounding, zero ability to score
really hard to tell how patient to be with RJ. He has those games where he shows post moves and passing and slashing and bashing... and other games where you think he would look great playing in China. Is he working on his game? Is he getting better? I would think the staff have the read on him.

I think what makes me consider holding on to RJ is how he played much better in the 2nd half of last season when he assumed more of a dominant role. He still has his warts but when the offense ran through him more I felt the ball moved around the court more. Neither RJ or Randle seem to have great vision, passing and/or any exceptional quality that would support running the offense around them. Just feel we've seen enough to recognize the limited ceiling with both these guys playing on the court together. I'd go with youth as there may be more options that way.

RJ is 22... how much more youthier can ya get?
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Nalod
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1/19/2023  2:51 PM
Take out a few bad possessions and its not so bad with Randle.
He was ****ting up the place last night then he started making some great passing, layups, etc.
It was ugly at times. For RJ also.
Easy to say "lets trade" and not come up with real ideas.
Admittingly, its been easy to say this team has been playing a bit over their heads. THats progress.
In the east, were teams are better, we are hanging in there.
jskinny35
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1/19/2023  2:56 PM
fishmike wrote:
jskinny35 wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Panos wrote:If it's me, i would trade RJ + parts for a better complimentary piece. Hopefully someone who can shoot with some court vision to pass . Some speed would be a bonus.
Also for the right piece i would part with Mitch.
Great defense and rebounding, zero ability to score
really hard to tell how patient to be with RJ. He has those games where he shows post moves and passing and slashing and bashing... and other games where you think he would look great playing in China. Is he working on his game? Is he getting better? I would think the staff have the read on him.

I think what makes me consider holding on to RJ is how he played much better in the 2nd half of last season when he assumed more of a dominant role. He still has his warts but when the offense ran through him more I felt the ball moved around the court more. Neither RJ or Randle seem to have great vision, passing and/or any exceptional quality that would support running the offense around them. Just feel we've seen enough to recognize the limited ceiling with both these guys playing on the court together. I'd go with youth as there may be more options that way.

RJ is 22... how much more youthier can ya get?

That's why I would trade Randle before moving RJ
Panos
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1/19/2023  3:24 PM
Nalod wrote:Take out a few bad possessions and its not so bad with Randle.
He was ****ting up the place last night then he started making some great passing, layups, etc.
It was ugly at times. For RJ also.
Easy to say "lets trade" and not come up with real ideas.
Admittingly, its been easy to say this team has been playing a bit over their heads. THats progress.
In the east, were teams are better, we are hanging in there.

I suggested RJ in response to the apparent thought that we have no trade assets.

fishmike
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1/19/2023  4:02 PM
jskinny35 wrote:
fishmike wrote:
jskinny35 wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Panos wrote:If it's me, i would trade RJ + parts for a better complimentary piece. Hopefully someone who can shoot with some court vision to pass . Some speed would be a bonus.
Also for the right piece i would part with Mitch.
Great defense and rebounding, zero ability to score
really hard to tell how patient to be with RJ. He has those games where he shows post moves and passing and slashing and bashing... and other games where you think he would look great playing in China. Is he working on his game? Is he getting better? I would think the staff have the read on him.

I think what makes me consider holding on to RJ is how he played much better in the 2nd half of last season when he assumed more of a dominant role. He still has his warts but when the offense ran through him more I felt the ball moved around the court more. Neither RJ or Randle seem to have great vision, passing and/or any exceptional quality that would support running the offense around them. Just feel we've seen enough to recognize the limited ceiling with both these guys playing on the court together. I'd go with youth as there may be more options that way.

RJ is 22... how much more youthier can ya get?

That's why I would trade Randle before moving RJ

except Randle is the one who keeps you in it every night... he's our most physical and productive player and he gives up the ball. Im open from moving on from Randle for a better player or combo of players, but no way am I doing it because of some imaginary ceiling.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
jskinny35
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1/19/2023  4:37 PM
fishmike wrote:
jskinny35 wrote:
fishmike wrote:
jskinny35 wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Panos wrote:If it's me, i would trade RJ + parts for a better complimentary piece. Hopefully someone who can shoot with some court vision to pass . Some speed would be a bonus.
Also for the right piece i would part with Mitch.
Great defense and rebounding, zero ability to score
really hard to tell how patient to be with RJ. He has those games where he shows post moves and passing and slashing and bashing... and other games where you think he would look great playing in China. Is he working on his game? Is he getting better? I would think the staff have the read on him.

I think what makes me consider holding on to RJ is how he played much better in the 2nd half of last season when he assumed more of a dominant role. He still has his warts but when the offense ran through him more I felt the ball moved around the court more. Neither RJ or Randle seem to have great vision, passing and/or any exceptional quality that would support running the offense around them. Just feel we've seen enough to recognize the limited ceiling with both these guys playing on the court together. I'd go with youth as there may be more options that way.

RJ is 22... how much more youthier can ya get?

That's why I would trade Randle before moving RJ

except Randle is the one who keeps you in it every night... he's our most physical and productive player and he gives up the ball. Im open from moving on from Randle for a better player or combo of players, but no way am I doing it because of some imaginary ceiling.

He has this season but we are mediocre with a limited ceiling unless a high level star forces a trade to us or wants to sign with us as a free agent. Yes we would likely take a step back but maybe that's the price we have to pay for hitching our wagon to him for the recent seasons. If he's so great we should be able to recoup a decent pick and/or player for him. Same with RJ to a lesser extent possibly... I can't think of a single player (available) that could join this team and make us better without scraping our future opportunities. So why bother keep plodding along the same path - sometimes you just have to back up the truck and head down a different road.

And by the way - agree or not I've been saying this for about 3 seasons so it's not a reaction to a few recent losses. Regardless of what we do (or don't do) we will need less iso ball/more ball movement, more talent, more complementary shooters going forward if we want to progress. Grimes and Brunson is a better foundation to build on as focusing around those two gives us more flexibility and options with upgrading at the forward positions. I would personally consider moving Mitch for a stretch 5 if possible - but that won't happen as long as Thibs is here as the seems to have a strong preference for how his C position plays.
nyvector16
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1/19/2023  9:14 PM
It would take some serious brass balls for management to shut things down and go for draft pick instead of playoffs.

If they did a real tank job and landed in the top 3 the Knicks would be set for the next 12 - 15 years years of actually contending.
The other way we wear everyone out just to get to play-in and quick exit... then take anther 3-4 years to get to where team would be if they drafted in top 3 this year.
Philc1
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1/19/2023  9:20 PM
SergioNYK wrote:I don't think there are any saviors on the market right now. I think maybe you could get Siakim, DeRozan or LaVine.

Derozan sucks at shooting the 3 and he won’t get the calls here he gets in Chicago. Pass.
Philc1
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1/19/2023  9:22 PM    LAST EDITED: 1/19/2023  9:23 PM
nyvector16 wrote:It would take some serious brass balls for management to shut things down and go for draft pick instead of playoffs.

If they did a real tank job and landed in the top 3 the Knicks would be set for the next 12 - 15 years years of actually contending.
The other way we wear everyone out just to get to play-in and quick exit... then take anther 3-4 years to get to where team would be if they drafted in top 3 this year.

How many times have we tanked last 20 years just to get burned? They are never rigging the draft for us. I’m pretty sure Stern on his death bed the last thing he told Silver was never ever rig the draft for Dolan

I’m happy with playoffs this year, 40-42 wins. Just gotta keep trying to nail draft picks
joec32033
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1/20/2023  12:56 AM    LAST EDITED: 1/20/2023  12:57 AM
Don't need a savior...need a better bench. Look at guys like Josh Hart, Bullock, Hardaway, Mo Bamba. Alec Burks. PJ Washington.


PPS....I wouldn't be opposed to Miles Bridges if Charlotte wants to hit the ultimate eject button as an off the bench scorer until another team is willing to give him a huge contract. And yes I know when he comes back he will likely be suspended for a bit.

~You can't run from who you are.~
franco12
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1/20/2023  6:51 AM    LAST EDITED: 1/20/2023  12:02 PM
fishmike wrote:
franco12 wrote:Before last nights embarrassingly performance of our 2021-22 season, I thought a player like DeRozan could be the piece that puts us into contention for Conference Finals.

Now, I'm not sure we avoid a play in scenario.

We have some nice players that have shown flashes - but we are short of the talent needed for a championship.

We probably should be marginal sellers at the deadline, not buyers.

So one game was enough to sway you from contender to play in?

Right! It was one game. And I started a post about not being able to comprehend how good we we were!

And it wasn't just last night that has me rethinking. We have had 1 or 2 really good stretches.

And then the Wizards game- they were at relatively full strength, we were as well, though we lost Mitch. And we can’t beat them on our home court?

And I’m also back to wanting to fire Thibs. I mean I posted in the game thread- one minute left, Thibs left the starters in. Why? Game was over.

I’m not saying tear down and I’m not saying to not add a piece that can help if it presents.

I do think we have a giant question mark on the team, and their initials are RJ.

The one player I would love to add because I think they can help- Bogdanovic. I’m not sure Thibs would play him!
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