As a supporter of Tim Thomas even I can admit that he was horrible last night and didn't do anything productive at all and he has been playing very poor for 6 of the 7 games we played.
I know Tim Thomas will eventually breakout of it. This is his 9th yr in the league and he has been solid every season. Playing horrible 6 out of 7 games is just that playing horrible in 6 out of 7 games.
Reminds me of how my brother thinks Richard Jefferson is completely garbage and only starts because the Nets are so bad. Just because he played poorly in the olympics.
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Bippity10 Posts: 13999
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TT is just mentally weak. That has been his problem since high school and I don't think it's going to change. Lenny has to tread very lightly in order not to lose him(if that hasn't happened already). But at this point his play is inexcusable. If it was just his shooting we could all forgive him. Everyone goes through shooting slumps, but he is doing nothing!!!!!!!
Oh wait that is not true, he's turning the ball over.
I just hope that people will like me
TMS Posts: 60684
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that's my complaint Bip...it's not that he's not making his shots...i could live with just a shooting slump as long as he was giving an effort out there...right now he just isn't trying at all...that to me is disgraceful.
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Bippity10 Posts: 13999
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Yeah it's maddening to hear him say that he needs to play to break out of the slump. Well if that's the case than play hard. How about using your 6-10 240 lb frame to grab a rebound in traffic every now and then. When was the last time any of us saw that?
It just angers me to watch him play because he's so much better than this. He's just one of those guys. When you play you come across them all the time. You know if you say or do the right thing you can take them right out of the game. TT knows one thing(judging by his comments the otehr day), when all is going poorly than "revert to street ball". At this point he just doesnt' understand what it takes. But I still think at some point he will turn it around.
I just hope that people will like me
bernard Posts: 20730
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Has anyone seen Fugazy run at full speed this season? I can remember several times when he's kicked away a turnover and loafed back. I also can think of a couple of times where the Knicks got a turnover and he was out front but still didn't bust it (even w/ a possible dunk as a reward). Forget playing D and trying to stay in front of TMac or take a charge (or even a block) instead of getting posterized, he can't even put out the effort to run full speed. It's embarrasing.
TMS Posts: 60684
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Tim Thomas, mired in a slump and quickly losing the faith of his coaches, played a season-low 13 minutes, finishing with 2 points on 1 of 5 shooting.
"It's always tough when it's not going for you," Thomas said. "But the beauty about this league is tomorrow is another day. I really didn't know what was going on, but I just stayed ready."
While Tim Thomas slumped through the first two weeks of the season, Wilkens exercised maximum patience. But Thomas's five-turnover, 5-for-15 shooting performance Tuesday in San Antonio raised the level of concern, and Wilkens decided he would act quickly at the next sign of trouble.
It came quickly. Less than a minute into the game, Thomas lost the ball on a drive into traffic. He followed that with three quick shots (he made one) and a foul of McGrady. With 7 minutes 24 seconds left in the first quarter, Wilkens pulled Thomas. He stayed on the bench the rest of the half.
"He didn't get going, and I'm not going to waste time," Wilkens said. "We're trying to win a game, and every player has to understand that if you're not playing well, then we're going to go to the bench."
Before tip-off, Wilkens called the slumping Thomas "an integral part of our team" and said, "If we get him off the mark, he can be awesome for us."
To that end, Wilkens had been calling plays for Thomas and giving him a wide berth, "but I can only wait so long with him," Wilkens said. Benching Thomas is problematic because the Knicks' best backup at the position is a rookie, Trevor Ariza.
"I don't want a whole lot of inexperience on the floor at one time," Wilkens said. "So yeah, I'm at times a little reluctant to stick Trevor out there. But I will. I'm not afraid to stick him out there, and I will from time to time. But I was trying to help Tim get going."
Thomas started the second half but played less than eight minutes before giving way to Ariza. Removing Thomas spared the Knicks his mistakes, but his replacements - Ariza and Hardaway - fared no better when it came to guarding McGrady.
great decision by Lenny imo...he couldn't afford to let TT's performance hurt the team's chances of winning this game.
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djsunyc Posts: 44927
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What I would do as Wilkens is play him the next game for 30+ minutes without saying a word to him.
After the game I'd sit down with him and make him watch the whole game with me and just tell him everything he is doing wrong.
I think at this point as crazy as it seems he needs to play a whole game through to get back his confidence which is at an all time low.
He is like a delicate flower that needs to be held by his hand and have his diaper changed.
As I was checking his stats his career game was 39 points, with 24 points off of 3 point shots. For all his years in the NBA and with his talent you'd think he would have had a 40+ point game mostly off of jumpers and FT line shots but no it was through 3-pointers. And his career high in rebounds is 13.
I think what T.Thomas needed in the off season was to take Basketball 101.
TMS Posts: 60684
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What I would do as Wilkens is play him the next game for 30+ minutes without saying a word to him.
After the game I'd sit down with him and make him watch the whole game with me and just tell him everything he is doing wrong.
there's no need to use another game to get video material to show Tim what he's doing wrong...Lenny can use any of the games he's played this year & do the same thing right now.
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Masterplan Posts: 21571
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Tim Thomas, mired in a slump and quickly losing the faith of his coaches, played a season-low 13 minutes, finishing with 2 points on 1 of 5 shooting.
"It's always tough when it's not going for you," Thomas said. "But the beauty about this league is tomorrow is another day. I really didn't know what was going on, but I just stayed ready."
While Tim Thomas slumped through the first two weeks of the season, Wilkens exercised maximum patience. But Thomas's five-turnover, 5-for-15 shooting performance Tuesday in San Antonio raised the level of concern, and Wilkens decided he would act quickly at the next sign of trouble.
It came quickly. Less than a minute into the game, Thomas lost the ball on a drive into traffic. He followed that with three quick shots (he made one) and a foul of McGrady. With 7 minutes 24 seconds left in the first quarter, Wilkens pulled Thomas. He stayed on the bench the rest of the half.
"He didn't get going, and I'm not going to waste time," Wilkens said. "We're trying to win a game, and every player has to understand that if you're not playing well, then we're going to go to the bench."
Before tip-off, Wilkens called the slumping Thomas "an integral part of our team" and said, "If we get him off the mark, he can be awesome for us."
To that end, Wilkens had been calling plays for Thomas and giving him a wide berth, "but I can only wait so long with him," Wilkens said. Benching Thomas is problematic because the Knicks' best backup at the position is a rookie, Trevor Ariza.
"I don't want a whole lot of inexperience on the floor at one time," Wilkens said. "So yeah, I'm at times a little reluctant to stick Trevor out there. But I will. I'm not afraid to stick him out there, and I will from time to time. But I was trying to help Tim get going."
Thomas started the second half but played less than eight minutes before giving way to Ariza. Removing Thomas spared the Knicks his mistakes, but his replacements - Ariza and Hardaway - fared no better when it came to guarding McGrady.
i completely disagree that ariza and penny were as ineffective guarding tmac as TT was. seeing those two hustle after him every possession was great. against TT mcgrady made dunks and layups. against ariza and penny, he also scored, but they were on contested jump shots. and against star players like that, there's nothing else you can do. you want tmac shooting with a hand in his face. TT just gave up, no hustle at all. penny and ariza are not hte problem with this team's D
[Edited by - Masterplan on 11/19/2004 17:03:48]
rojasmas Posts: 21207
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I think Lenny is handling TT terribly. TT tries to be aggressive and takes it to the hole hard against San Antonio. He doesn't shoot a high percentage and Lenny gets pissed that he doesn't run the offense. Hello.. he is posting up his man and has an eight foot shot. He is at least aggressive and trying to find his groove. He did collect eight boards, high for him. Now against Houston, he comes out aggressive and misses 4 shots in the first quarter. He is benched half of this quarter and gets to play only a little at the start of the second half, where he is apparently afraid to shoot now because he probably believes he isn't allowed to take shots and miss or else he will be pulled out like the first half. So he goes further into his funk. Where is the justice for all? Crawford takes horrible shots and rarely gets pulled. TT at least is taking high percentage shots. He just isn't hitting them right now. It seems to me that Lenny has a jones for TT since last year's playoffs and TT sounding off after being flagrantly fouled. He doesn't seem to be one of his guys.
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Andrew Posts: 26600
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I think Lenny is handling TT terribly. TT tries to be aggressive and takes it to the hole hard against San Antonio. He doesn't shoot a high percentage and Lenny gets pissed that he doesn't run the offense. Hello.. he is posting up his man and has an eight foot shot. He is at least aggressive and trying to find his groove. He did collect eight boards, high for him. Now against Houston, he comes out aggressive and misses 4 shots in the first quarter. He is benched half of this quarter and gets to play only a little at the start of the second half, where he is apparently afraid to shoot now because he probably believes he isn't allowed to take shots and miss or else he will be pulled out like the first half. So he goes further into his funk. Where is the justice for all? Crawford takes horrible shots and rarely gets pulled. TT at least is taking high percentage shots. He just isn't hitting them right now. It seems to me that Lenny has a jones for TT since last year's playoffs and TT sounding off after being flagrantly fouled. He doesn't seem to be one of his guys.
defense. dude is playing zero defense.
Oh, and bad decisions on offense. and not just the poor shooting.
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DaNixFan Posts: 20331
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TT is just weak, let us admit people. He is the weakest link. Ariza needs to start over him. I saw the stats on him that were posted and TMS you forgot the 2 TO’s. The team looked good last night. Everyone that played contributed, even Norris who played hard. Kurt was the man, (even though I never liked him in the past, I have another Thomas to pick on) he saved the night and earned my respect as a million dollar ball player. Sit TT’s butt on the bench and kick him out of the league. He is overrated and WEAK.
rojasmas Posts: 21207
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Nobody on this team plays good defense, don't kid yourself. TT had eight rebounds against SA and still was yanked and jerked around. I grant you he had 5 TO's so the decision-making part is true for that game at least.
We could be the Dallas Mavs of the East.
TMS Posts: 60684
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dude, read the article i posted earlier on why Lenny benched TT that game...i had my eye on him for every minute he was on the court, & believe me, he wasn't trying out there...why the hell should anyone be patient if a guy is on the floor not hustling & not giving an effort?
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rojasmas Posts: 21207
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Steve Kerr wrote an article on Yahoo Sports before the Rockets game citing that the Knicks were dead last so far in FG percentage against so I guess that is all Tim Thomas's fault. Everyone knows how Marbury and Crawford are defensive stoppers and so are Penny Hardaway and Kurt Thomas. Not to mention Nazy. Tonight, (the Mavs game) I can say that TT actually defended Stackhouse better than anyone else that played against him. And, Penny threw up some shi****. But he gets a pass for god knows what reason with the fans. TT also got 9 rebounds and had 2 steals and a blocked shot. Marbury didn't want to take the last shot. TT missed it and is shooting atrociously. But give the guy a break.
We could be the Dallas Mavs of the East.
Panos Posts: 29328
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Didn't want to start a new thread for this, so I just resurrected an old one. Just wanted to post -- cuz i didn't see it anywhere -- that TT had another stellar game yesterday.
1 for 9 (season total .305 FG%) 3 Rebounds. Brilliant.
Oh, wait! He got his FIFTH assist of the season!!! Kudos!
Are you guys tired of my posting his crappy stats after each game?... Me too. But I'm going to keep doing it.
Season is 1/8 done, and HE STILL SUCKS.
technomaster Posts: 23244
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Let's forget about bringing KVH into this argument... because NAZR MOHAMMED IS DA MAN. :)
He's been fantastic as of late--- clearly TT was just a salary cap throw in to make the deal work. :)
If Nazr can continue putting up double-doubles and running the court (not to mention catching passes!), we'll overlook the fact that TT is having his worst season ever.
I guess the boxing over the summer hasn't paid off in toughness?
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Marv Posts: 35540
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All right how's this for some optimism - may be hard to stomach but - the 1 in the 1-for-9 was a beautiful drive for a score, a foul and a 3-point play. The best move he's made yet this year. When he did play well last year, that was the kind of move he would get going and suddenly score 8 points in a row. I still say Lenny's handling him graat, keep giving him his chance to work it out and we'll see.
