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another Tim Thomas thread, but i need to vent at this point...
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TMS
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11/19/2004  9:51 AM
what is with Tim Thomas??? it's like he doesn't even want to play anymore...someone needs to get into this guy's head...he's a disgrace to the uniform at this point...

i was watching him all game long (all 13 minutes of it) & if he wasn't shooting the ball, he wasn't doing anything at all...no box outs, no setting picks for anyone, no helping out on D, no running hard on the fastbreaks...he was coasting, plain & simple...this guy just isn't concentrating on the game at all...

he needs to be benched & Penny needs to start until he gets his head on straight...i'm disgusted to even have to be saying this stuff about a guy who makes $12 million a year to play a game he supposedly loves & goes out on the court & can only manage 2 POINTS, 1 REBOUND & 1 STEAL!!! :
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Kwazimodal
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11/19/2004  9:56 AM
On the bright side I got my first look at Ariza and all I can say is damn! This kid is only 19?He is going to be scary if he keeps improving.Id just bench TT and let him start for the rest of the season.For whatever reason TT isnt in the game mentally and needs to watch from the bench not the floor.
fishmike
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11/19/2004  10:03 AM
no reason to give up on him and I like that from Lenny. He's important and we all know he's NOT mentally tough. Benching him doesnt accomplish anything. If he isnt getting it done he's out, plain and simple. Early in the 3rd when TMac dribble baseline then threw down the reverse slam I KNEW that TT's night was over.
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martin
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11/19/2004  10:08 AM
Posted by fishmike:

Early in the 3rd when TMac dribble baseline then threw down the reverse slam I KNEW that TT's night was over.

It was amazing to watch TT watch TMac just walk to the basket. Especially when they showed the replay.

TNT to the world: Here is how much TT does not play D. Watch him give up on the play.
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martin
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11/19/2004  10:10 AM
Posted by TMS:

what is with Tim Thomas???

he needs to be benched & Penny needs to start until he gets his head on straight...i'm disgusted to even have to be saying this stuff about a guy who makes $12 million a year to play a game he supposedly loves & goes out on the court & can only manage 2 POINTS, 1 REBOUND & 1 STEAL!!! :

I am disgusted too, but I don't think you can go away from starting TT. WIth Penny in the starting lineup you have 3 wing players and no real post play (well, you don't anyway, but at least with TT you have that option). And Penny would be dominated on the defensive end. Start JYD and you don't have too much O out there. It's a tough spot to be in for Wilkens.
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Kwazimodal
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11/19/2004  10:12 AM
Posted by fishmike:

no reason to give up on him and I like that from Lenny. He's important and we all know he's NOT mentally tough. Benching him doesnt accomplish anything. If he isnt getting it done he's out, plain and simple. Early in the 3rd when TMac dribble baseline then threw down the reverse slam I KNEW that TT's night was over.

I also admire the fact that he is trying to give TT a fair shot but at some point you have to sit him down and let him watch someone like Ariza who is putting in the effort.Maybe it will motivate him to play harder and he can get his starter's role back.

I dont want to see the Knicks go back to the bad old days when a player started regardless of how much he sucked.
djsunyc
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11/19/2004  10:18 AM
TT is struggling mightily. i don't know if he can work his way out of this funk. let's see how it plays out but man, you can't be happier to know that you got ariza ready and willing to take that spot. amazing.
Nalod
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11/19/2004  10:24 AM
If Gay-Z did not do this funk, Trevor would not be getting the minutes.

Long term this is good.

To those whom finally go the see the kid play, its what he does thats not in the box score that is so impressive. He makes a lot of rookie errors, but at least he tries
Marv
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11/19/2004  10:25 AM
Lenny seems to have real strengths in people skills. I happen to agree with how he's handling TT. Starting him tells him we're still expecting real play out of you and you're going to continue to get the chance to deliver it. Sitting him right away and for a long time when he doesn't give it tells him no excuses and no prolonged harming of the team.
EnySpree
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11/19/2004  10:32 AM
There was a play where McGrady was comming baseline for that reverse dunk. Yeah T-Mac got free but Tim Thomas had a chance to cut him off and he gave him a free pass.

Timmy could have tried to get the charge or something. He probably would have been called for a blocking foul but at least Tracy doesn't get a highlight to pump up the crowd.

WTF is wrong with Timmy? This is beyond slump. It's not about shooting. He is not even playing hard, smart, or anything you could think of.

At this point you have to bench him so he can do some sould searching. The Knicks have been starting off games terribel because of him.

Start Penny and role with Ariza off the bench. Both guys play awesome defense and while Penny can shoot Ariza is better when he is attacking the rim.

Please place Timmy on the injured list!!!!
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Bonn1997
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11/19/2004  10:35 AM
I think Lenny is handling the situation PERFECTLY. You can't give up on TT for the whole season. You have to give him a chance to break out of his slump. Like Fish said, we know he's not mentally tough and benching him probably won't help. However, if he's hurting the team, he comes out of the game. Lenny managed his playing time and Trevor's and Penny's at the SF spot very well yesterday.
Kwazimodal
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11/19/2004  10:35 AM
Any of you believe Ariza's emergence is getting into TT's head?
martin
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11/19/2004  10:37 AM
Posted by Nalod:

If Gay-Z did not do this funk, Trevor would not be getting the minutes.

Long term this is good.

To those whom finally go the see the kid play, its what he does thats not in the box score that is so impressive. He makes a lot of rookie errors, but at least he tries

I like Trevor, but I like that fact that you purposely put in "whom" where ever possible.
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spreeeewell
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11/19/2004  10:38 AM
Posted by fishmike:

no reason to give up on him and I like that from Lenny. He's important and we all know he's NOT mentally tough. Benching him doesnt accomplish anything. If he isnt getting it done he's out, plain and simple. Early in the 3rd when TMac dribble baseline then threw down the reverse slam I KNEW that TT's night was over.
I agree with you 100%. He should not be bench.They should just take him outside and shoot hit...
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islesfan
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11/19/2004  10:38 AM
No, it's ok guys. Van Horn apparently isn't good in the 4th quarter of playoff games so it's ok that TT is an absolute embarrassment as a Knick. And Nazr is supposed to have some great value, as a backup center that doesn't play defense, that he's going to get us the big man that we desperately need.
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Bonn1997
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11/19/2004  10:44 AM
Posted by islesfan:

No, it's ok guys. Van Horn apparently isn't good in the 4th quarter of playoff games so it's ok that TT is an absolute embarrassment as a Knick. And Nazr is supposed to have some great value, as a backup center that doesn't play defense, that he's going to get us the big man that we desperately need.
You can keep Doleac and I'll keep Nazy and we'll see whose center plays better. I like my chances better than yours, though!
BRIGGS
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11/19/2004  10:54 AM
TT needs some tough love. If H2) was back, I would go to a 3 guard set and I would drop TT from the entire rotation. Ive learned more about basketball watching how Jim Calhoun coaches than either playing or watching pro games for years. If you don't play hard on both sides of the court, you dont play. Now there is a lot more leeway in NBA basketball, but anyone who has watched TT knows he cares about one thing, taking his shot, and if he isnt hitting it, he has little value.. 10% of the season is now over, and I think TT needs to prove in practice or garbage time that he can play the game the right way. If not, he can sit his arse on the bench and watch. I dont think he gives a f hes getting his money.

I dont know how this team will do because I believe TT was factored in as a big part, but the bottom line is has done enough[or should i say little enough] to cause a change in plans and a demotion in the rotation.
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tkf
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11/19/2004  10:56 AM
Posted by fishmike:

no reason to give up on him and I like that from Lenny. He's important and we all know he's NOT mentally tough. Benching him doesnt accomplish anything. If he isnt getting it done he's out, plain and simple. Early in the 3rd when TMac dribble baseline then threw down the reverse slam I KNEW that TT's night was over.

I was going to comment on that, and what upset me about the play is not only the lack of help defense but TT just slowed down and didn't even try to take away the baseline, he slowed down and gave up as if to say to himself "hey if I slow down, maybe he will slow down als and not go baseling and dunk it on me".... At that point, I said take TT out!!
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fishmike
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11/19/2004  11:02 AM
last year TT gave us 16/5 "as a Knick." That was AFTER he had a slow start and may have been labeled as an embarrassment. We have seen players struggle and have bad starts before. He can be a good player for this team and giving up on him doesnt make any sense.
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TMS
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11/19/2004  11:36 AM
Last night's statline:

Kurt Thomas, PF 40 min. 23 points, 14 rebounds on 11-20 shooting
Tim Thomas, F 13 min. 2 points, 1 rebound, 1 steal on 1-5 shooting
Nazr Mohammed, C 45 min. 12 points, 17 rebounds on 4-11 shooting
Stephon Marbury, PG 43 min. 18 points, 10 assists on 6-16 shooting
Jamal Crawford, SG 39 min. 19 points, 8 assists, 5 rebounds on 7-18 shooting

(cue Sesame Street music)
One of these things is not like the others,
One of these things is not the same...
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
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another Tim Thomas thread, but i need to vent at this point...
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