SF RJ Barrett has no SF teammate taking any of his 40 min of playing time.
Imagine Barretts game stats receiving 27 min a game (inconsistency).

Is he a communist sympathizer? Registered sexual offender? Taliban supporter?
No, he is currently a non role player due to the success of a rotation that does not include him.
Speculation that teams are interested in trading for him.
Team is .500. Less during losing streaks when fans can suggest things to improve. More and fans can bask in glory and suggest things to make it even better.
Reddish was an opportunity that did not pan out for him or the team. Grimes did.

Nalod wrote:“Blacklisted”.

Is he a communist sympathizer? Registered sexual offender? Taliban supporter?
No, he is currently a non role player due to the success of a rotation that does not include him.
Speculation that teams are interested in trading for him.
Team is .500. Less during losing streaks when fans can suggest things to improve. More and fans can bask in glory and suggest things to make it even better.
Reddish was an opportunity that did not pan out for him or the team. Grimes did.

Good call! Benched, not blacklisted.

Thibs needs someone out there to spread the floor and Cam can't really do that; 30% shooting on 3 attempts a game isn't helping the Knicks win any games. Maybe he was benched because he isn't that good.

joec32033 wrote:

wargames wrote:

Kemet wrote:Let's figure it out .. Barrett is no longer needed as a SG in the rotation.
SG Grimes and SG Quickley took over the Knicks 48 min of SG duties.
SF Hunt was cut, and SF Fournier plus SF Reddish was taken out the rotation without a comment from the coach.

SF RJ Barrett has no SF teammate taking any of his 40 min of playing time.
Imagine Barretts game stats receiving 27 min a game (inconsistency).

That sounds good but that is also how Thibs ran him into the ground last year.

As of 12/26/22
Barrett is getting 35 minutes per game. Tied for 30th in the league with a 32 year old Lillard.
Julius is getting 34.2 minutes. Good for 40th in the league.
Brunson is getting 32.5 minutes. Good for 66th in the league.

Minutes. Are. Not. The. Issue.

As a comparison, before this load management crap, in the 2002/03 season,
Barrett's minutes would have put him at 49. Julius minutes would have put him at 55. Brunson would be at 73.

http://www.espn.com/nba/seasonleaders/_/league/nba/sort/avgMinutes

Look for yourself. This Thibs minutes thing is so overblown. He is not playing anyone on this team a crazy amount of minutes. Derrick Rose tore his knee in 2012. His minutes before that (2008-2011) 37, 36.8, 37.4, and 35.3. Good for 25, 25, 14, 24 (the year he was injured). Seems the one up tick was in 2010. Top 25 minutes for a 22 year old MVP caliber player doesn't seem to crazy to me.

Jimmy Butler seems to be the only guy that Thibs relied on to play top 10 minutes. The seasons he averaged over 30 minutes a game (starting in his 3rd season 2013) he was ranked #1(T), #1, #4. And BTW, Fred Hoiberg played Jimmy Butler 37 minutes per game his first year (ranked 6)

Joakim Noah topped out at a rank of 14 in 2012 (when Rose got hurt). other than that, no major minutes of note.

In Minny Towns played 37 minutes per (ranked 5) in TT's first year as coach then steadily declined.

This minutes crap with Thibs started and ended with Jimmy Butler, and for some reason is a label he can't shake. I think the worst of it is that he requires a hard 37 minutes per game (he hasnt played any of his top players over what looks like 39 minutes per game).

See this is an example of taking stats and manipulating them to try and make a incorrect point. We’re not discussing the season, we’re discussing since the rotation got cut. RJ’s minutes since the rotation change around 10 games ago has gone up to almost 39 minutes. That’s including the warriors game where Thibs took out the starters because it would have been rude to beat the warriors with the starters all night. In the other 9 games his average goes up to close to 40 minutes a game. Which leads to my original point he was actually averaging around 40 minutes when he got injured in February and then again in April. I actually like RJ playing with the bench but playing him 40 minutes so he can play second/third fiddle with the starters and primary offense with the bench is not how you manage the roster if you want RJ to have anything left in the tank for the playoffs.

Maybe Toppin comes back and Thibs lowers the minutes, but I don’t know. There is a need for a third wing/forward on this roster who can get minutes under Thibs. It might not be this year though they may have to draft him.

Alpha1971 wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

wargames wrote:

Kemet wrote:Let's figure it out .. Barrett is no longer needed as a SG in the rotation.
SG Grimes and SG Quickley took over the Knicks 48 min of SG duties.
SF Hunt was cut, and SF Fournier plus SF Reddish was taken out the rotation without a comment from the coach.

SF RJ Barrett has no SF teammate taking any of his 40 min of playing time.
Imagine Barretts game stats receiving 27 min a game (inconsistency).

That sounds good but that is also how Thibs ran him into the ground last year.

As of 12/26/22
Barrett is getting 35 minutes per game. Tied for 30th in the league with a 32 year old Lillard.
Julius is getting 34.2 minutes. Good for 40th in the league.
Brunson is getting 32.5 minutes. Good for 66th in the league.

Minutes. Are. Not. The. Issue.

As a comparison, before this load management crap, in the 2002/03 season,
Barrett's minutes would have put him at 49. Julius minutes would have put him at 55. Brunson would be at 73.

http://www.espn.com/nba/seasonleaders/_/league/nba/sort/avgMinutes

Look for yourself. This Thibs minutes thing is so overblown. He is not playing anyone on this team a crazy amount of minutes. Derrick Rose tore his knee in 2012. His minutes before that (2008-2011) 37, 36.8, 37.4, and 35.3. Good for 25, 25, 14, 24 (the year he was injured). Seems the one up tick was in 2010. Top 25 minutes for a 22 year old MVP caliber player doesn't seem to crazy to me.

Jimmy Butler seems to be the only guy that Thibs relied on to play top 10 minutes. The seasons he averaged over 30 minutes a game (starting in his 3rd season 2013) he was ranked #1(T), #1, #4. And BTW, Fred Hoiberg played Jimmy Butler 37 minutes per game his first year (ranked 6)

Joakim Noah topped out at a rank of 14 in 2012 (when Rose got hurt). other than that, no major minutes of note.

In Minny Towns played 37 minutes per (ranked 5) in TT's first year as coach then steadily declined.

This minutes crap with Thibs started and ended with Jimmy Butler, and for some reason is a label he can't shake. I think the worst of it is that he requires a hard 37 minutes per game (he hasnt played any of his top players over what looks like 39 minutes per game).

Your looking at the argument on a macro level. I bet if you look at the distribution of playing time for key players over the last 10-15 games you will see RJ and JR and Brunson playing enough time to tire them out for the stretch.

Yes, Julius minutes have gone way up. Brunson’s hasn’t, but Thibs has IQ/McBride behind him on the rotation. Which brings me back to another point. The Knicks need a combo forward. Like even with the two big strategy (Sims & Hart) looking good. The reality is Sims is a third string Center because Mitch gets dinged up every season and occasionally fouls out. Ideally we would be seeing the two center bench lineup as a situational adjustment.

Alpha1971 wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

wargames wrote:

Kemet wrote:Let's figure it out .. Barrett is no longer needed as a SG in the rotation.
SG Grimes and SG Quickley took over the Knicks 48 min of SG duties.
SF Hunt was cut, and SF Fournier plus SF Reddish was taken out the rotation without a comment from the coach.

SF RJ Barrett has no SF teammate taking any of his 40 min of playing time.
Imagine Barretts game stats receiving 27 min a game (inconsistency).

That sounds good but that is also how Thibs ran him into the ground last year.

As of 12/26/22
Barrett is getting 35 minutes per game. Tied for 30th in the league with a 32 year old Lillard.
Julius is getting 34.2 minutes. Good for 40th in the league.
Brunson is getting 32.5 minutes. Good for 66th in the league.

Minutes. Are. Not. The. Issue.

As a comparison, before this load management crap, in the 2002/03 season,
Barrett's minutes would have put him at 49. Julius minutes would have put him at 55. Brunson would be at 73.

http://www.espn.com/nba/seasonleaders/_/league/nba/sort/avgMinutes

Look for yourself. This Thibs minutes thing is so overblown. He is not playing anyone on this team a crazy amount of minutes. Derrick Rose tore his knee in 2012. His minutes before that (2008-2011) 37, 36.8, 37.4, and 35.3. Good for 25, 25, 14, 24 (the year he was injured). Seems the one up tick was in 2010. Top 25 minutes for a 22 year old MVP caliber player doesn't seem to crazy to me.

Jimmy Butler seems to be the only guy that Thibs relied on to play top 10 minutes. The seasons he averaged over 30 minutes a game (starting in his 3rd season 2013) he was ranked #1(T), #1, #4. And BTW, Fred Hoiberg played Jimmy Butler 37 minutes per game his first year (ranked 6)

Joakim Noah topped out at a rank of 14 in 2012 (when Rose got hurt). other than that, no major minutes of note.

In Minny Towns played 37 minutes per (ranked 5) in TT's first year as coach then steadily declined.

This minutes crap with Thibs started and ended with Jimmy Butler, and for some reason is a label he can't shake. I think the worst of it is that he requires a hard 37 minutes per game (he hasnt played any of his top players over what looks like 39 minutes per game).

Your looking at the argument on a macro level. I bet if you look at the distribution of playing time for key players over the last 10-15 games you will see RJ and JR and Brunson playing enough time to tire them out for the stretch.

So, like the other guy said. Play worse players more minutes. And then complain how they suck and you are pissed they went 6-5 or 5-6 over the last stretch of games.

Hate: Thibs is ruining their trade value. Yes and no. Some of you would have dumped Randle for nothing. Get real.
Fronier and Cam were not ruined. They are not good fits. They are luxuries we can afford and 29 GM’s know their capabilties. We paid nothing for EF and Cam cost us Knox and an unconvayed well protected pick. Likely we hold out for similar or they are packaged together for net netural. Haters will find a way to not like it. Lovers are hopefully distracted by the team doing well enough and enjoying the games. Haters want to feel they know better. Misery.

Its not that the team is perfect and FO have not made mistakes. They do. So do the successful ones. GSW went yoot and is attempting a very ambitious bridge. They have a belly full of success and its way too early to see the long view. How to bridge a chip era with a yoot one. We don’t have that luxury.
We have a very young team with lots of picks. we a .500 team and if you want upside they can’t fix it on the fly and spend that future capital. Thats the old way.

We not out of the woods yet. Cam was part of a process. He is a free agent at the end of the seaosn and does not fit in our plans.

joec32033 wrote:

wargames wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

wargames wrote:

Kemet wrote:Let's figure it out .. Barrett is no longer needed as a SG in the rotation.
SG Grimes and SG Quickley took over the Knicks 48 min of SG duties.
SF Hunt was cut, and SF Fournier plus SF Reddish was taken out the rotation without a comment from the coach.

SF RJ Barrett has no SF teammate taking any of his 40 min of playing time.
Imagine Barretts game stats receiving 27 min a game (inconsistency).

That sounds good but that is also how Thibs ran him into the ground last year.

As of 12/26/22
Barrett is getting 35 minutes per game. Tied for 30th in the league with a 32 year old Lillard.
Julius is getting 34.2 minutes. Good for 40th in the league.
Brunson is getting 32.5 minutes. Good for 66th in the league.

Minutes. Are. Not. The. Issue.

As a comparison, before this load management crap, in the 2002/03 season,
Barrett's minutes would have put him at 49. Julius minutes would have put him at 55. Brunson would be at 73.

http://www.espn.com/nba/seasonleaders/_/league/nba/sort/avgMinutes

Look for yourself. This Thibs minutes thing is so overblown. He is not playing anyone on this team a crazy amount of minutes. Derrick Rose tore his knee in 2012. His minutes before that (2008-2011) 37, 36.8, 37.4, and 35.3. Good for 25, 25, 14, 24 (the year he was injured). Seems the one up tick was in 2010. Top 25 minutes for a 22 year old MVP caliber player doesn't seem to crazy to me.

Jimmy Butler seems to be the only guy that Thibs relied on to play top 10 minutes. The seasons he averaged over 30 minutes a game (starting in his 3rd season 2013) he was ranked #1(T), #1, #4. And BTW, Fred Hoiberg played Jimmy Butler 37 minutes per game his first year (ranked 6)

Joakim Noah topped out at a rank of 14 in 2012 (when Rose got hurt). other than that, no major minutes of note.

In Minny Towns played 37 minutes per (ranked 5) in TT's first year as coach then steadily declined.

This minutes crap with Thibs started and ended with Jimmy Butler, and for some reason is a label he can't shake. I think the worst of it is that he requires a hard 37 minutes per game (he hasnt played any of his top players over what looks like 39 minutes per game).

See this is an example of taking stats and manipulating them to try and make a incorrect point. We’re not discussing the season, we’re discussing since the rotation got cut. RJ’s minutes since the rotation change around 10 games ago has gone up to almost 39 minutes. That’s including the warriors game where Thibs took out the starters because it would have been rude to beat the warriors with the starters all night. In the other 9 games his average goes up to close to 40 minutes a game. Which leads to my original point he was actually averaging around 40 minutes when he got injured in February and then again in April. I actually like RJ playing with the bench but playing him 40 minutes so he can play second/third fiddle with the starters and primary offense with the bench is not how you manage the roster if you want RJ to have anything left in the tank for the playoffs.

Maybe Toppin comes back and Thibs lowers the minutes, but I don’t know. There is a need for a third wing/forward on this roster who can get minutes under Thibs. It might not be this year though they may have to draft him.

OK...so let me get this straight. You are taking a 10 game increment. An increment where this team has gone 8-3 so far, where going to a 9 man rotation in itself will mean your best players will by default get more minutes (along with anyone else in your rotation)-and keep in mind 1 member of that rotation is INJURED- and are applying it to an overall picture of Thibs running his players into the ground.

Meanwhile, I am taking SEASONS. With documented, official minutes. Not some stupid analytics, WAR, PER, or other math equation, but hard, documentable stats, and I am the one manipulating stats.

OK. You're right. Play Ryan Archidiancono, Svi Mykhailiuk more minutes. Or please bring Fournier back into the rotation. Better yet, just go back to the rotation from the beginning of the season where everyone was crying for him to shorten the rotation, and remove guys like Fournier from it, and play the kids.

Wait I am confused? You think explaining the flaw in your data sample makes it more valid? There is the 10-11 man rotation and RJ’s minutes which isn’t relevant because we’re in the 8-9 man rotation that led to this winning streak. The whole topic is Cam losing minutes and then the affect of it. I don’t know if the Knicks stick toppin in there (he’s not a 3 in any shape of form), make a trade, play Syl…. I do know the last time RJ’s minutes were this high he started getting injured.