I see the Knicks definitely trading guys that Thibs has moved on from. (Rose, Cam, EF). But also looking not afraid to add a couple of youngins if they feel a considerable piece is available.

HofstraBBall wrote:As some may know, I love Grimes and feel he is a big part of the Knicks future. Think he can be better than RJ and a possible All Star.
However, do think that if the Knicks feel they have a chance to compete now (They do), they will try to make a trade for a higher profile SG that they feel is better now and has a longer history of production. They may also feel their is a need to move Grimes back to the second unit. A move that would allow Grimes to get more shots and help the shooting need in the second unit. Are they also thinking they need a better PF to backup Randle? Better C to backup MR? Do not know. If the Knicks do , it increase the possibility that Obi, Deuce and Sims lose their rotation spots or that they will be traded. Not saying that is what I want to happen but just reading the room. We all know how much Thibs loves proven players.

I see the Knicks definitely trading guys that Thibs has moved on from. (Rose, Cam, EF). But also looking not afraid to add a couple of youngins if they feel a considerable piece is available.

Getting the team to “click” is what we wait and hope for. When you get that “click” you don’t break it up so easily. You switching in Myles Turner for Robinson? I’m not. You switching in SGA for Brunson? Questionable even if the stats back up that move. You moving Randle for Jerami Grant? Same point. Who do you replace Grimes with that just “clicks”.

Devin Booker? Ok you got me. I make that move all day. OG Anunoby? Yeah, I probably do that also. But the guys I name to make it worth the risk with a team that is playing well, probably don’t have a chance in hell anyway.

If the team stops playing magical ball before the trade deadline and needs an infusion, I’m then looking for the guy that makes this a championship run. Is Kawhi Leonard healthy and coming here? With that kind of move, I’m listening. But otherwise, with this team at this age, we can move people other than Grimes to upgrade.

gradyandrew wrote:Terry Rozier is the guy I keep coming back to as a possible SG. Beal would be awesome but the no trade clause and contract make it a no no. If the Knicks could get Rozier for Fournier Reddish and the Milwaukee and Detroit picks, I'd do it in a second.

Jesus man, you are giving up 2 first round picks for Rozier? For what purpose? Whose minutes are you taking away to play him?

And why in the world would you think about trading for Beal who is set to be 30 and has missed an average of 30 games a year over the last 3 and hasn’t put a dent in his teams Win column, not to mention that crater of a contract.

How do these players make sense?

BigDaddyG wrote:I don't think you'll see an upgrade unless it's for a "star." I don't think the FO will be pressured to make a big in-season trade as long as the Knicks remain competitive. The Donovan Mitchell trade still remains kinda the standard and this FO remains conservative in terms of its valuation of assets.

Is there a star SG out there that even makes sense for the Knicks, especially considering Brunson/Grimes?

I can't even come up with one reasonable name that I'd include Grimes in a trade and for which a team would give up a star SG. Cause there is no way you are keeping him out of the trade, right?

martin wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:I don't think you'll see an upgrade unless it's for a "star." I don't think the FO will be pressured to make a big in-season trade as long as the Knicks remain competitive. The Donovan Mitchell trade still remains kinda the standard and this FO remains conservative in terms of its valuation of assets.

Is there a star SG out there that even makes sense for the Knicks, especially considering Brunson/Grimes?

I can't even come up with one reasonable name that I'd include Grimes in a trade and for which a team would give up a star SG. Cause there is no way you are keeping him out of the trade, right?

Yeah, Masai is probably gonna ask for Grimes even for a guy like OG. It's better to wait until the off season if you do those type of deals anyway.

EwingsGlass wrote:

martin wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:As some may know, I love Grimes and feel he is a big part of the Knicks future. Think he can be better than RJ and a possible All Star.
However, do think that if the Knicks feel they have a chance to compete now (They do), they will try to make a trade for a higher profile SG that they feel is better now and has a longer history of production. They may also feel their is a need to move Grimes back to the second unit. A move that would allow Grimes to get more shots and help the shooting need in the second unit. Are they also thinking they need a better PF to backup Randle? Better C to backup MR? Do not know. If the Knicks do , it increase the possibility that Obi, Deuce and Sims lose their rotation spots or that they will be traded. Not saying that is what I want to happen but just reading the room. We all know how much Thibs loves proven players.

I see the Knicks definitely trading guys that Thibs has moved on from. (Rose, Cam, EF). But also looking not afraid to add a couple of youngins if they feel a considerable piece is available.

So I have to disagree with you underlying statement and the follow up one.

The Knicks want to make playoffs, but not sure that means they want to be all in on a SG just to make it further into the playoffs. It's why they kept Grimes out of Donovan trade. They want to keep him FOR the playoffs.

And the Knicks have made pathways for Grimes to start from the Summer, he just got hurt. Zero chance they want him in second unit; no way no how no sir.

Further to Martin's point, you have to manage Usage on any trade. So, when I joke that I would accept Booker, you have to realize his shots come from someone else. Grimes is working in the SL with a low usage and high efficiency. Same as Robinson. I don't think you can add more usage without taking it from Randle or Barrett. At which point, you aren't looking to upgrade SG, you are looking to downgrade SF or PF.

martin wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:As some may know, I love Grimes and feel he is a big part of the Knicks future. Think he can be better than RJ and a possible All Star.
However, do think that if the Knicks feel they have a chance to compete now (They do), they will try to make a trade for a higher profile SG that they feel is better now and has a longer history of production. They may also feel their is a need to move Grimes back to the second unit. A move that would allow Grimes to get more shots and help the shooting need in the second unit. Are they also thinking they need a better PF to backup Randle? Better C to backup MR? Do not know. If the Knicks do , it increase the possibility that Obi, Deuce and Sims lose their rotation spots or that they will be traded. Not saying that is what I want to happen but just reading the room. We all know how much Thibs loves proven players.

I see the Knicks definitely trading guys that Thibs has moved on from. (Rose, Cam, EF). But also looking not afraid to add a couple of youngins if they feel a considerable piece is available.

So I have to disagree with you underlying statement and the follow up one.

The Knicks want to make playoffs, but not sure that means they want to be all in on a SG just to make it further into the playoffs. It's why they kept Grimes out of Donovan trade. They want to keep him FOR the playoffs.

And the Knicks have made pathways for Grimes to start from the Summer, he just got hurt. Zero chance they want him in second unit; no way no how no sir.

Knicks kept Grimes out of DM deal because they felt Grimes is a valuable future piece. Not sure if it was because they felt he was the starting SG right now. If they did, would they have even consider giving the smaller packages they offered for DM?

Mentioned some other reasons in post above. My feeling comes form what has been rumored. Thibs liking vets in playoffs. And some possible needs that may be perceived by the FO in our second unit.

I am for not ****ing with things that are working. Giving the new second unit more time to gel.
FO may be looking at it differently though if they feel they see some room for improvement if they want to be competitive in the playoffs. Hard to think they feel that is possible with Deuce and Sims in the rotation. But I know, us fans do.

The feeling is that they will be trading EF, Cam and Rose. Question is for what? Win now move or for the future? Probability is with the former.

HofstraBBall wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

martin wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:As some may know, I love Grimes and feel he is a big part of the Knicks future. Think he can be better than RJ and a possible All Star.
However, do think that if the Knicks feel they have a chance to compete now (They do), they will try to make a trade for a higher profile SG that they feel is better now and has a longer history of production. They may also feel their is a need to move Grimes back to the second unit. A move that would allow Grimes to get more shots and help the shooting need in the second unit. Are they also thinking they need a better PF to backup Randle? Better C to backup MR? Do not know. If the Knicks do , it increase the possibility that Obi, Deuce and Sims lose their rotation spots or that they will be traded. Not saying that is what I want to happen but just reading the room. We all know how much Thibs loves proven players.

I see the Knicks definitely trading guys that Thibs has moved on from. (Rose, Cam, EF). But also looking not afraid to add a couple of youngins if they feel a considerable piece is available.

So I have to disagree with you underlying statement and the follow up one.

The Knicks want to make playoffs, but not sure that means they want to be all in on a SG just to make it further into the playoffs. It's why they kept Grimes out of Donovan trade. They want to keep him FOR the playoffs.

And the Knicks have made pathways for Grimes to start from the Summer, he just got hurt. Zero chance they want him in second unit; no way no how no sir.

Further to Martin's point, you have to manage Usage on any trade. So, when I joke that I would accept Booker, you have to realize his shots come from someone else. Grimes is working in the SL with a low usage and high efficiency. Same as Robinson. I don't think you can add more usage without taking it from Randle or Barrett. At which point, you aren't looking to upgrade SG, you are looking to downgrade SF or PF.

Some good points. Usage is definitely a consideration.
Some things that make me feel they are looking for an upgrade. Btw, Imo, a backup SF or PG upgrade would make more sense but a few things have given me the feeling they may look for a proven SG.

1. They were trying to do so in summer by adding DM despite Grimes promise. True that DM is not only a SG/PG but a 'Franchise' type player. One the Knicks are probably not going to get before the trade deadline.
2. Speaking of usage, Grimes 'usage' is quite low in the first unit. Does the FO feel he is better used in the second unit where his offensive skill can better help the team? Continue his development? For those opposed to Grimes being in second unit (myself included), we may want to consider how Grimes stock skyrocketed last year. It was by Grimes thriving in that role.
3. Knicks rumored to be open to including EF, IQ in trades. 2 SG's
4. Knicks rumored to be open to Eric Gordan. While doubtful, leads me to the feeling Knicks are leaning to adding a Gordan type SG.

In terms of the Rumor Mill on Mitchell, I mean, if Mitchell says I want to come home to NY, I think you listen. The fact that it didn't happen is more about Ainge and the Timberwolves than the Knicks, in my opinion.

Managing usage is important - the ability to be productive without the ball is a necessary trait. Otherwise you end up with scenarios where there aren't enough balls to go around. I think that is why IQ is in the second unit and not the first. The switch you suggest could work well, since IQ is not being very effective with the ball in the second unit but is still productive despite his shooting woes. It would be a way to decrease IQ's usage and increase Grimes' usage.

Including IQ with EF appears to be a concession that they will need to do something to remove EF's salary next year (or not) and that IQ is an expiring asset. I think the intention is to add value to EF's salary to get a single player as you mention. Cam fits this same scenario as an RFA. I don't think they need to do anything since EF's salary clearance doesn't do much by itself. But its what they have to work with.

I think the Eric Gordon thing is as much about Rose as about Gordon. Derrick Rose has mentioned on several occasions that he would like to play with Gordon, his childhood AAU rival. With McBride getting a look, I don't know if that Gordon thing is plausible.