Knixkik wrote:Kuzma is a PF so it wouldn’t really be reasonable to replace RJ with him. And I don’t see him as an upgrade really either. I like his versatility over a guy like Randle if we are talking about last year’s Randle, but not the current Randle we are seeing.

he’s playing like a SF right now and can defend at both forward positions. I also don’t think RJ on the bench is a automatic bad thing. It might help him a lot to not have to play third string to Randle and Brunson whenever he is on the floor.

McBride
IQ
RJ
Obi
Hart

Could help that whole group out since potentially he has just as much downhill scoring upside as Rose brought, plus potentially they could try to play five man out with Hart out there.

I think Kuzma helps us a lot- he can play either SF or PF- not sure that Thibs would appreciate that flexibility.

Absolutely no idea about his defense, but if I can get a legit three point threat to replace RJ the bricklayer, I am doing it!

fishmike wrote:no way... Kuzma is a finesse guy. We kill him every time. Keep RJ. He's a bulldozer. All the guy does is play hard and take it to the whole. Much more interested in finding RJ's peek. I've seen Kuzma's

Agreed.

The guy I still think the Knicks should target is OG Anunoby. Good guess that he isn't on market in any way, know he has got 1 extra year after this and player option. Toronto has a lot of decisions to make over the next 2+ years with their roster, maybe this can shake out. Definitely a guy you would have to back-channel to convince to force his way to Knicks.

High level role player type. All defensive team type guy. Solid SF. Not deficient offensively. Can play small ball PF easily. Fits team style perfectly. Super long, gets in passing lanes just like IQ, Grimes, McBride.

I'd give up just a little less than what was in the Donovan package but still keep the substantial stuff on table for that type player. He is 25.

martin wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

martin wrote:

fishmike wrote:no way... Kuzma is a finesse guy. We kill him every time. Keep RJ. He's a bulldozer. All the guy does is play hard and take it to the whole. Much more interested in finding RJ's peek. I've seen Kuzma's

Agreed.

The guy I still think the Knicks should target is OG Anunoby. Good guess that he isn't on market in any way, know he has got 1 extra year after this and player option. Toronto has a lot of decisions to make over the next 2+ years with their roster, maybe this can shake out. Definitely a guy you would have to back-channel to convince to force his way to Knicks.

High level role player type. All defensive team type guy. Solid SF. Not deficient offensively. Can play small ball PF easily. Fits team style perfectly. Super long, gets in passing lanes just like IQ, Grimes, McBride.

I'd give up just a little less than what was in the Donovan package but still keep the substantial stuff on table for that type player. He is 25.

I think he did try that (not to the Knicks, but a more favorable environment) and Masai didn't flinch. I wouldn't mind him, but where does he play? Would Masai consider a Maple Mam a swap? I would normally be against such a trade, but I think RJ's upside is an OG type player.

Respectfully disagree 100%. For one, I am targeting Anunoby for his high level role playing ability and all defensive team imminent potential; RJ don't got those qualifies and *maybe* in 2-3 years he becomes a statistically average offensive player for his role (and he will just never get there defensively at the levels anywhere near OG) - RJ has got a long way to go IMO just to get offensively average, no less beyond that.

OG is going to be an UFA in summer 2024. I don't even need to pull the trigger on him this season, I'd be a patient hunter for this type of player. I'm banking on all the Toronto players contracts needing to be dealt with over the next 2 years and sit by patiently to see what kicks out also knowing that RJ is getting better and locked up long term on a really stable contract given the spike in salary cap that will also happen in 3 years.

OG just fits too well next to the other long term pieces I am guessing will be on the roster *and* fits exactly the type player Thibs excels with.

After OG, you get VERY close to making noise for the last super star. And that's where you want to be.

I didn't mean RJ is at OG's levelor is guaranteed to get there. I meant RJ, assuming he meets his ceiling as a finished product, is looking at being an OG level player. That's why I'd probably do the trade if there's no unprotected picks involved. OG is good, but the team would still be two "star" players away from being serious with him on the roster. I understand the need to strike while the iron is hot if OG is available. But the team needs to save its bait for the bigger fish as well. Cap management also plays a part if the team waits until OG becomes UFA. Assuming the cap hits projected rise, what kind of market is OG looking at? JB money?
I should also add that I think the Knicks best move season is to go all in with the youth development movement and see where that lands them. Heck, it might even land them into a top 5 lottery pick. I know it won't happen with this front office and ownership, but still feel it's the right move.

Knixkik wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

martin wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

martin wrote:

fishmike wrote:no way... Kuzma is a finesse guy. We kill him every time. Keep RJ. He's a bulldozer. All the guy does is play hard and take it to the whole. Much more interested in finding RJ's peek. I've seen Kuzma's

Agreed.

The guy I still think the Knicks should target is OG Anunoby. Good guess that he isn't on market in any way, know he has got 1 extra year after this and player option. Toronto has a lot of decisions to make over the next 2+ years with their roster, maybe this can shake out. Definitely a guy you would have to back-channel to convince to force his way to Knicks.

High level role player type. All defensive team type guy. Solid SF. Not deficient offensively. Can play small ball PF easily. Fits team style perfectly. Super long, gets in passing lanes just like IQ, Grimes, McBride.

I'd give up just a little less than what was in the Donovan package but still keep the substantial stuff on table for that type player. He is 25.

I think he did try that (not to the Knicks, but a more favorable environment) and Masai didn't flinch. I wouldn't mind him, but where does he play? Would Masai consider a Maple Mam a swap? I would normally be against such a trade, but I think RJ's upside is an OG type player.

Respectfully disagree 100%. For one, I am targeting Anunoby for his high level role playing ability and all defensive team imminent potential; RJ don't got those qualifies and *maybe* in 2-3 years he becomes a statistically average offensive player for his role (and he will just never get there defensively at the levels anywhere near OG) - RJ has got a long way to go IMO just to get offensively average, no less beyond that.

OG is going to be an UFA in summer 2024. I don't even need to pull the trigger on him this season, I'd be a patient hunter for this type of player. I'm banking on all the Toronto players contracts needing to be dealt with over the next 2 years and sit by patiently to see what kicks out also knowing that RJ is getting better and locked up long term on a really stable contract given the spike in salary cap that will also happen in 3 years.

OG just fits too well next to the other long term pieces I am guessing will be on the roster *and* fits exactly the type player Thibs excels with.

After OG, you get VERY close to making noise for the last super star. And that's where you want to be.

I didn't mean RJ is at OG's levelor is guaranteed to get there. I meant RJ, assuming he meets his ceiling as a finished product, is looking at being an OG level player. That's why I'd probably do the trade if there's no unprotected picks involved. OG is good, but the team would still be two "star" players away from being serious with him on the roster. I understand the need to strike while the iron is hot if OG is available. But the team needs to save its bait for the bigger fish as well. Cap management also plays a part if the team waits until OG becomes UFA. Assuming the cap hits projected rise, what kind of market is OG looking at? JB money?
I should also add that I think the Knicks best move season is to go all in with the youth development movement and see where that lands them. Heck, it might even land them into a top 5 lottery pick. I know it won't happen with this front office and ownership, but still feel it's the right move.

I think the way the Knicks currently play they are only one star away from a contender when you consider there’s only the Celtics and the bucks as real dominant teams. Knicks have a real case as a dominant defensive team that just needs a true star as a #1 and Randle, Brunson and Barrett plus the defensive supporting cast all continue to fall into their respective roles. But that would indicate getting a top 10-15 player using only draft picks and not losing a significant rotation piece. Let’s just say the Knicks somehow managed to land a top 10-15 player for Toppin and 5-6 first round picks. Let’s just say that player is Devin Booker for the sake of argument. I’d start Brunson, Booker, grimes, Randle and Mitch and use Barrett, Quickley, Deuce and Hart off the bench. Barrett as a 6th man between the 3 and 4. That’s a contender right now.

Pretty much what I would have responded with.

C, Superstar, OG, Grimes, Brunson. Maybe Mitch could be good enough as a defensive C, maybe not. But the larger part of having a smothering defensive team would stand.

Think Toronto after Kawhi arrived. You put yourself in the room for high level play and that's all you ask for. OG gets you one step closer to the next step IMHO

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

martin wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

martin wrote:

fishmike wrote:no way... Kuzma is a finesse guy. We kill him every time. Keep RJ. He's a bulldozer. All the guy does is play hard and take it to the whole. Much more interested in finding RJ's peek. I've seen Kuzma's

Agreed.

The guy I still think the Knicks should target is OG Anunoby. Good guess that he isn't on market in any way, know he has got 1 extra year after this and player option. Toronto has a lot of decisions to make over the next 2+ years with their roster, maybe this can shake out. Definitely a guy you would have to back-channel to convince to force his way to Knicks.

High level role player type. All defensive team type guy. Solid SF. Not deficient offensively. Can play small ball PF easily. Fits team style perfectly. Super long, gets in passing lanes just like IQ, Grimes, McBride.

I'd give up just a little less than what was in the Donovan package but still keep the substantial stuff on table for that type player. He is 25.

I think he did try that (not to the Knicks, but a more favorable environment) and Masai didn't flinch. I wouldn't mind him, but where does he play? Would Masai consider a Maple Mam a swap? I would normally be against such a trade, but I think RJ's upside is an OG type player.

Respectfully disagree 100%. For one, I am targeting Anunoby for his high level role playing ability and all defensive team imminent potential; RJ don't got those qualifies and *maybe* in 2-3 years he becomes a statistically average offensive player for his role (and he will just never get there defensively at the levels anywhere near OG) - RJ has got a long way to go IMO just to get offensively average, no less beyond that.

OG is going to be an UFA in summer 2024. I don't even need to pull the trigger on him this season, I'd be a patient hunter for this type of player. I'm banking on all the Toronto players contracts needing to be dealt with over the next 2 years and sit by patiently to see what kicks out also knowing that RJ is getting better and locked up long term on a really stable contract given the spike in salary cap that will also happen in 3 years.

OG just fits too well next to the other long term pieces I am guessing will be on the roster *and* fits exactly the type player Thibs excels with.

After OG, you get VERY close to making noise for the last super star. And that's where you want to be.

I didn't mean RJ is at OG's levelor is guaranteed to get there. I meant RJ, assuming he meets his ceiling as a finished product, is looking at being an OG level player. That's why I'd probably do the trade if there's no unprotected picks involved. OG is good, but the team would still be two "star" players away from being serious with him on the roster. I understand the need to strike while the iron is hot if OG is available. But the team needs to save its bait for the bigger fish as well. Cap management also plays a part if the team waits until OG becomes UFA. Assuming the cap hits projected rise, what kind of market is OG looking at? JB money?
I should also add that I think the Knicks best move season is to go all in with the youth development movement and see where that lands them. Heck, it might even land them into a top 5 lottery pick. I know it won't happen with this front office and ownership, but still feel it's the right move.

I think the way the Knicks currently play they are only one star away from a contender when you consider there’s only the Celtics and the bucks as real dominant teams. Knicks have a real case as a dominant defensive team that just needs a true star as a #1 and Randle, Brunson and Barrett plus the defensive supporting cast all continue to fall into their respective roles. But that would indicate getting a top 10-15 player using only draft picks and not losing a significant rotation piece. Let’s just say the Knicks somehow managed to land a top 10-15 player for Toppin and 5-6 first round picks. Let’s just say that player is Devin Booker for the sake of argument. I’d start Brunson, Booker, grimes, Randle and Mitch and use Barrett, Quickley, Deuce and Hart off the bench. Barrett as a 6th man between the 3 and 4. That’s a contender right now.

Pretty much what I would have responded with.

C, Superstar, OG, Grimes, Brunson. Maybe Mitch could be good enough as a defensive C, maybe not. But the larger part of having a smothering defensive team would stand.

Think Toronto after Kawhi arrived. You put yourself in the room for high level play and that's all you ask for. OG gets you one step closer to the next step IMHO

Toronto, even if you take away DeRozan, was a better team than the Knicks are now. There's no Siakamnlevel player on the roster who shows huge upside and, if OG does make his way way here, the only realistic upgrade would have to come from the PF slot or the shooting guard slot. I would say center, but there's no way in hell any of the star centers are moving anytime soon. I'm happy the team is a game over .500, but they aren't doing much better than that this season. Maybe my mind changes if they keep rising as the season goes on, but now I think youth development is the best move.

Next: when does Rokas come and what promise besides money can team make to entice him? Lets be real, Rokas might experience the talent gap and not dos so great here.

BigDaddyG wrote:

Nalod wrote:The EF for Nunn and Beverly is interesting. Keep one and waive the other? Both expiring. Undoes the EF opportunity.
lets not forget he did well while in Boston for a short spell. What ever the reasoning he has had some good games here but he does not thrive in the Thibian universe.
It happens. Reddish was a flyer on a weak CLT pick that is heavy protected. Not everything works out.
Knicks are moving in the right direction on and off the court with a young core mostly we drafted.
Imagine such a thing a few years ago? We talked about it.

I think the Lakers might want IQ in order to do that deal. If that's the case... pass. Fournier has been quiet and I have no issues keeping in the bench until the right trade comes along.

How about:

Westbrook and picks (LA this year and Pho this year, Brock will wet his pants) to Knicks
Fournier, DRose, Crowder, Saric to LA
Pat Bev, Cam to Phoenix