Nalod wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

SergioNYK wrote:It's kind of simple (well, not really) to me. Draft well first and foremost. Wherever you end up. Giannis was the 15th pick and Jokic was the 41st pick. You do not need to necessarily tank unless it's for a generational talent but then again, you will still have a 86% chance you will NOT end up with your guy. And then you invest as many resources as possible into scouting and player development. Followed by smart reasonable trades and no, trading unprotected picks 5 years from now for Spida wasn't it.

We are not Isiah's Knicks where it's hopeless. We have some nice young pieces, tradeable contracts and tons of draft picks. We don't have to be stuck in mediocrity forever.

This. Just keep amassing draft capital and try to make good selections. It’s not sexy like signing KD and Kyrie but it works and has worked. Kobe, Kawahi and Dirk were not top draft picks and they were even traded by the teams that drafted them for trash

I agree. (cough-cough)

Ian Begly has a **** article today about "knicks front office and Thibs under scrutiny internally".
No ****.
but by whom? Themselves? Dolan?
Clickbait article?

Nobody in the universe preseason had them picked to be anything more than "struggle to make play in game despite improvement".
It might have been hoped that Brunson would unlock the universe, but the reality is not that apparent.

What is the alternative? Fire Thibs? Ok, Lets assume Johnny Bryant is the man. he is I thought the highest paid assistant. My guess is he is the heir apparent. What can he bring that Thibs can't? And if logical, that Thibs would be ignoring? "Thibs is stubborn". Lame excuse. We don't know the man like that.
Bring in a new FO? To do what? Starphuck and leverage the franchise? Leon could do it. he could have gotten DM its assumed. "Wait until a star wants to be moved". WE can do that.
"Keep drafting and mine for Gold". We can and are doing it.
Lose our minds over draftee's? How? take the clickbait and get pissed over RJ and think OBI can rebound better. Obi looks tiny under the basket. Could we have thought his lateral quickness would be better and put him at SF? Not working if so.
RJ is talented but inconsistant. he does get to the line with near elite rate. Im bias, I like the kid.
Issue with randle is he is our most physical player. Brunson is good. Very good. But as we all know we have no go to super duper star.
Keep mining.

That article is nonsense. Unless Dolan is Dolan’ing again but I doubt it. Knicks are at win/loss where everyone expected them to be maybe slightly better

fwk00 wrote:Fournier and McBride for Bogdanovich and Corey Joseph. Whatever it takes.

Who says no?

Why do you think Detroit even picks up the phone for this exchange?

jskinny35 wrote:Path 1)
We can make a conscious effort to play the young players exclusively and will likely regress/lose more games. We will draft higher in a loaded draft (eg go from 13-14 to pick 8-9).

Path 2)
We consolidate our players/positions and package several players (with picks) in a trade for a star/leader. We have to give up 2023 picks to do this. Who is that star we can obtain that instantly becomes our best player and leader...Durant, KAT, Booker?

Path 3)
We have a firesale and trade several of the following (RJ, IQ, Toppin, Randle, Rose) - to load up and obtain more draft picks to package for a higher draft position in 2023 draft.

Path 4)
We keep going with no moves and likely finish around 40-42 wins. We draft around 13-14 and also keep Mavs pick in the teens. No trades

- I would go with path 1 or path 3 due to this draft reportedly being a sure thing to land a better player if draft in top 7-8. Believe it's realistic to offer pick 9-10 + 14 + future 1st to get to 4-6. Despite our struggles drafting well in early 1st round - it seems to be our best chance to finally land a star.

Which do you pick and why?

Well, all of the above.

IMO, you have Brunson, Grimes, and Sims as keepers. Everyone else and every pick is on the table.

The goal is to trade volume for quality (talent or better picks). Sounds obvious. But I'm not talking about "home runs". Certain players have traditionally added key chemistry to the teams they join. Rubio and Crowder are two names that come to mind. There are others. They aren't stat stars, they just make it work.

Now Crowder happens to be available. I'd put Alex Caruso, Corey Joseph, Luke Kennard, Caleb Martin, Joe Ingles, Pat Coughnaton, Tobias Harris, Matisse Thybulle, Dario Saric, Matt Delavadova, Devin Vassell, Thaddeus Young as doable trade targets that add character or chemistry to the Knicks. I have no idea if they're healthy or otherwise impaired but they are an archetype for more entertaining basketball.

None make us contenders but they make us competitive compared to the lackluster effort we get game to game.

martin wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

martin wrote:

fwk00 wrote:Fournier and McBride for Bogdanovich and Corey Joseph. Whatever it takes.

Who says no?

Why do you think Detroit even picks up the phone for this exchange?

They do it because the phone is ringing.

Look, deals always start somewhere. Bog is 35 and paid more. Detroit can lose more economically than that.

Joseph is yet another PG on a PG heavy team. McBride is young with no oexpectations that a coach owes himm minutes. Opens up time for the draft picks to strut their stuff.

Knicks may have to throw in a future.

Fournier gets out of NY. Knicks pick up a bit more 3 point firepower to get through the season without all hell breaking loose.

Detroit saves money while losing.

So why pick up the phone? Money talks.

Detroit trades better players for worse players? This can’t be real.

So you are telling me that you watch the Knicks, game after game, play worse players on the floor than those on the bench and you think a trade proposal that moves Detroit's 30 somethings out of the way of their high draft picks so that they can develop is shocking.

All I said is that all trades start with a conversation. But of course, in Knick's World, every body else's players are all-stars and the ones we trade are dreck.

Okay, let's make you happy. Let's trade RJ and Quickly and this year's first rounder for Bogs and Joseph. Probably not enough for Detroit to pick up the phone. Right?

fwk00 wrote:

martin wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

martin wrote:

fwk00 wrote:Fournier and McBride for Bogdanovich and Corey Joseph. Whatever it takes.

Who says no?

Why do you think Detroit even picks up the phone for this exchange?

They do it because the phone is ringing.

Look, deals always start somewhere. Bog is 35 and paid more. Detroit can lose more economically than that.

Joseph is yet another PG on a PG heavy team. McBride is young with no oexpectations that a coach owes himm minutes. Opens up time for the draft picks to strut their stuff.

Knicks may have to throw in a future.

Fournier gets out of NY. Knicks pick up a bit more 3 point firepower to get through the season without all hell breaking loose.

Detroit saves money while losing.

So why pick up the phone? Money talks.

Detroit trades better players for worse players? This can’t be real.

So you are telling me that you watch the Knicks, game after game, play worse players on the floor than those on the bench and you think a trade proposal that moves Detroit's 30 somethings out of the way of their high draft picks so that they can develop is shocking.

All I said is that all trades start with a conversation. But of course, in Knick's World, every body else's players are all-stars and the ones we trade are dreck.

Okay, let's make you happy. Let's trade RJ and Quickly and this year's first rounder for Bogs and Joseph. Probably not enough for Detroit to pick up the phone. Right?

I can tell you literally have zero clue what Detroit is and has been doing with the players they have added to roster.

They’ve purposely added 30yo vets to the team to help the young kids grow. The GM and coach have said this out load, repeatedly.

Every else you suggest is just kinda wrong and the rest I don’t know what you are talking about.

fwk00 wrote:

martin wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

martin wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

martin wrote:

fwk00 wrote:Fournier and McBride for Bogdanovich and Corey Joseph. Whatever it takes.

Who says no?

Why do you think Detroit even picks up the phone for this exchange?

They do it because the phone is ringing.

Look, deals always start somewhere. Bog is 35 and paid more. Detroit can lose more economically than that.

Joseph is yet another PG on a PG heavy team. McBride is young with no oexpectations that a coach owes himm minutes. Opens up time for the draft picks to strut their stuff.

Knicks may have to throw in a future.

Fournier gets out of NY. Knicks pick up a bit more 3 point firepower to get through the season without all hell breaking loose.

Detroit saves money while losing.

So why pick up the phone? Money talks.

Detroit trades better players for worse players? This can’t be real.

So you are telling me that you watch the Knicks, game after game, play worse players on the floor than those on the bench and you think a trade proposal that moves Detroit's 30 somethings out of the way of their high draft picks so that they can develop is shocking.

All I said is that all trades start with a conversation. But of course, in Knick's World, every body else's players are all-stars and the ones we trade are dreck.

Okay, let's make you happy. Let's trade RJ and Quickly and this year's first rounder for Bogs and Joseph. Probably not enough for Detroit to pick up the phone. Right?

I can tell you literally have zero clue what Detroit is and has been doing with the players they have added to roster.

They’ve purposely added 30yo vets to the team to help the young kids grow. The GM and coach have said this out load, repeatedly.

Every else you suggest is just kinda wrong and the rest I don’t know what you are talking about.

All I'm saying is that the point of trading is to trade for better players. You seem surprised by that.

Because Detroit would downgrade from Bogs - who is 33 by the way and who Detroit just extended for 2 more years - to Fournier and also lose a heady PG in Corey Joseph who Detroit wants to help mentor Killian and Cade in the same way Rose has done for the Knicks while playing alongside IQ. McBride is barely a prospect they would be interested in.

Your trade makes zero sense for Detroit. It’s at least gotta be reasonable