Im mean “Fire Thibs, remove the FO, and Start over” is pure emotion. No thought to who and how the new regime gets anything done. At the end of the day the players and the contracts stick. Punishment to thibs and FO does not do anything short term. They have not been here that long.

So, what does trading IQ do for now? Best case is not affect the current .500 reality while a future asset is in place. Lets not forget the horde of picks and that we own all our 1sts COULD HAVE BEEN USED TO WIN MORE NOW. We are in a DELEVERAGED STATE. I started Briggs like thread just for that thought. Super self important.

Back on point, we could up the current roster with a move and win more but Leon has grander long term plans. So in my pea brain if RJ has a rough start after demonstrating 3 years of constant improvement im not freaking out. He sucks lately and we still won on the road and .500. Randle is walking advertisement for antidepressents. I see the whole lot of knicks not living up to the mental masterbation optimism of the off season we fostered here amung ourselves.
Some think Grimes is an allstar? Maybe. Nobody talking now the season started.
OBI cult? Assume double his minutes he an allstar? He looks weak compared to papa Randle and his man strength. I have no answers here. Trade Obi? What comes back in return and how would that help us going forward? can’t see it then there is no vision. There is. We are in the here and now.

Brunson is doing great but some much one player can do. If he is all 100 mil pays for, we don’t need Drose mentorship anymore. Brunson can do it. Drose been here along time and likley he done all he can mentor. Its why we have 10 assistant coaches and the great Johnny Bryant. Come January we should be selling of we not enroute to a playoff spot.
I love Drose. But either he or IQ should be moved.

Im not thinking Reddish is the long term answer but he can be. He is a bit fragile.
Grimes is a good value and will factor more as the season goes on.
Evan? Might be down and out but in Thibian fashion a true pro and he makes a return to the rotation given injuries.
RJ plays big minutes because he brings more sick than Evan healthy. But, no need to panic dump Evan just because we need some one to blame on.

Miles McBride. He’ll get another chance. If no body can shoot, why not. He’ll catch fire one night. We’ll go LinSane, he’ll fall back to earth. We’ll blame Thibs for hurting his confidence.

Lets finish up on IQ. He is really doing a lot of things well off the ball well. If he is traded the new team will likley resign him and Thibs/Bryant will have gotten him paid. Good culture build. Many of you are already pissed at this suggestion because we don’t have anything to say in return to counter balance. If its a future asset, that won’t help today. One more “deleverage” trade. The pressure builds for Brock Aller to do his thing. We don’t talk about him, or Perry anymore. Its all Leon. Remind me what World Wide Wes does for the knicks? I still don’t know.

Knicks are kind of tanking. We just don’t know the plan and its not all out for The French Alien.

Nalod wrote:Take a view from up top and look down. .500 team actually is close to the ceiling. Fucking maddening really. We gets tastes of winning then the sour aftertaste of not.

A lot to read but I don’t buy your underlying assumption.

IMO Knicks are missing 2 (eventual) starters in Grimes and Mitch. DRose and IQ are only starting to find their previous season grooves (2 years ago for Rose).

After that it’s about figuring out how to fit and jell with Brunson, Hart.

A trade will happen for Knicks to consolidate some.

Think Expectations is the key?
IQ is a good player. No reason to trade him. How about we continue to develop him. Has the tools but needs to continue to learn the game.
Obi is a great athlete. Has improved his shot. No reason to trade him. Needs to develop ability to create. Have we seen him do a move in three years?
Grimes is the real deal. Has the skills. NBA shot and NBA confidence. Give him time to get healthy.
Brunson is a good piece. Until we can get something better.
Randle is a good piece. Until we can get something better.
RJ has a lot of skills but a lot to learn. Knicks should have used this year to evaluate if he can become a complete player.
MR will always be a valuable piece. If he learns how to shoot he can be a difference maker.
Cam has length and athletic ability. Seems like, at minimum, a good piece off the bench. Needs to build up bball IQ to be a starter.

Only moves I see is:
Rose needs to be traded. Give IQ the backup role so he can learn more bball IQ.
EF needs to be traded. Can get a shooting piece off the bench for less.
If Superstar comes along, consider everyone available.

As far as expectations...
Why is anyone expecting more?
Youngins have skills. Need patience and lowered expectations.
Randle is our best player.
Brunson is our best PG in years.
So maybe sit back, watch these kids hopefully improve. Watch Randle and Brunson be our best players until we are able to get elite ones that are.

gradyandrew wrote:

Nalod wrote:

martin wrote:

Nalod wrote:Take a view from up top and look down. .500 team actually is close to the ceiling. Fucking maddening really. We gets tastes of winning then the sour aftertaste of not.

A lot to read but I don’t buy your underlying assumption.

IMO Knicks are missing 2 (eventual) starters in Grimes and Mitch. DRose and IQ are only starting to find their previous season grooves (2 years ago for Rose).

After that it’s about figuring out how to fit and jell with Brunson, Hart.

A trade will happen for Knicks to consolidate some.

Perhaps. And .500 is my assumption this team at full strength ceiling. With the assets to spend we could raise that. A trade for say IQ and Drose for deep prosepects or picks could lower that but have a brighter future.
Use our aquired picks for play now assets makes us neutral. Trading our own future picks then leverages us to more win now then later. This is where cleveland went but they have a solid starting core. Potentially 4 allstars. They have three already. Mobley has the highest ceiling. They did the right thing for them.

I have lost a lot of confidence in the Randle/ Robinson pairing. At least Sims can dribble and Hart can pass. Randle and Robinson clog the paint for each other. I'd actually try to trade Robinson for Anthony Davis. I think he's the blue chipper most likely available as the season goes on. Knicks have a lot of depth to help the Lakers post LeBron rebuild project move along.

Same. I don’t see it working long term. I’ll push this the way I pushed Brunson last year (Martin got sick of me starting new Brunson threads.). Myles Turner is available and would make a huge difference on this team. Young player who is a league best rim protector but can provide so much more offensively than Mitch. He would be fantastic for Randle, Brunson and Barrett. Indiana is still rebuilding despite the hot start, so Drose and protected picks would work. Move Mitch or Hartenstein in a separate trade.

gradyandrew wrote:

Nalod wrote:

martin wrote:

Nalod wrote:Take a view from up top and look down. .500 team actually is close to the ceiling. Fucking maddening really. We gets tastes of winning then the sour aftertaste of not.

A lot to read but I don’t buy your underlying assumption.

IMO Knicks are missing 2 (eventual) starters in Grimes and Mitch. DRose and IQ are only starting to find their previous season grooves (2 years ago for Rose).

After that it’s about figuring out how to fit and jell with Brunson, Hart.

A trade will happen for Knicks to consolidate some.

Perhaps. And .500 is my assumption this team at full strength ceiling. With the assets to spend we could raise that. A trade for say IQ and Drose for deep prosepects or picks could lower that but have a brighter future.
Use our aquired picks for play now assets makes us neutral. Trading our own future picks then leverages us to more win now then later. This is where cleveland went but they have a solid starting core. Potentially 4 allstars. They have three already. Mobley has the highest ceiling. They did the right thing for them.

I have lost a lot of confidence in the Randle/ Robinson pairing. At least Sims can dribble and Hart can pass. Randle and Robinson clog the paint for each other. I'd actually try to trade Robinson for Anthony Davis. I think he's the blue chipper most likely available as the season goes on. Knicks have a lot of depth to help the Lakers post LeBron rebuild project move along.

More like trade Randle for Anthony Davis

AD doesn’t like banging in the paint as a center on offense or defense. And I remember this was a trade rumor way back when that I thought would happen. Not sure if I like it or not. Both have pros and cons.

But I agree. Randle and Mitch makes us clunky. Add in RJ rumbling down the lane building brick houses. I think it’s those three players together that makes us clunky as a starting 5 compared to other nba starters. Which is why the second unit always looks more energized with movement and flow. Fast break points and quicker plays.

Since the union of this starting triangle unit (RJ, Randle and Mitch), our bench have been top 10 (need to fact check) Coincidence?

Its not that the effort is lacking, we just dont look mentally sharp. Too much ISO. I agree with other posters who say the pieces are ill fitting. We dont have enough players who make their teammates better.

Next we will say those three is too crowded. There is some truth to that IN THEORY. All 3 are lefties and best when in the post or at the rim.

And have left handed players is great. But when all your left handed players are slashers, it’s difficult and just doesn’t fit well together.

It’s one thing for a president to consume talent. It’s another thing with your president used to be a player and coach like Pat Riley. Riley adds players that fit together. We need our FO to do the same and not just add talent. A bunch of highly talented individuals doesn’t mean they are a functional team where different skill sets are diverse and fits well together. We need that cohesiveness.

Philc1 wrote:Stream of consciousness posts, better than tranquilizers

Its over your head? Makes you sleepy.