[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

Some Rose, IQ discussions going on around league
Author Thread
martin
Posts: 67880
Alba Posts: 108
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #2
USA
11/18/2022  11:02 AM
With the IQ chatter, I thought it was more the Knicks trying to assess his value, not to trade him but what to sign him to next year.

Official sponsor of the PURE KNICKS LOVE Program
AUTOADVERT
Knixkik
Posts: 34856
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #11
USA
11/18/2022  11:12 AM
Trading quickley would be dumb as he can play 2 positions off the bench and has been elite defensively. Unless it’s for a star of course. He’s also close with Obi and others and the chemistry would get hurt if he was moved. Rose makes more sense if there’s a deal out there as grimes can logically fill in that rotation spot.
fishmike
Posts: 53028
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/19/2002
Member: #298
USA
11/18/2022  11:23 AM
IQ has been our best bench player. Despite some shaky shooting nights he brings it in every facet and is getting better and simply a + player. IF we are de-glutting he's not the one I would wanna see go

Draft cap is nice but 3 years in we are on the verge of seeing a good player. Hard to figure the logic in moving him unless there's a clear follow up move

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
GustavBahler
Posts: 41138
Alba Posts: 15
Joined: 7/12/2010
Member: #3186

11/18/2022  11:27 AM
Knixkik wrote:Trading quickley would be dumb as he can play 2 positions off the bench and has been elite defensively. Unless it’s for a star of course. He’s also close with Obi and others and the chemistry would get hurt if he was moved. Rose makes more sense if there’s a deal out there as grimes can logically fill in that rotation spot.

If Quickley was playing lights out at the 2 for a stretch. Maybe its enough for OKC to listen to an offer for SGA. Quickley/Rose plus picks. Quickley would have to be playing very well since Rose would be a stopgap. But a good one. Also believe the rest of the league is starting to see Quick's upside as a 2 way player. As the OP has suggested.

Clean
Posts: 28613
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 8/22/2004
Member: #743
11/18/2022  11:35 AM
As time goes by the more I am becoming skeptical about this FO. A lot of suspect decisions have been going on. If they are going to trade the young players anyway why keep them out of the Mitchell trade. No one is going to give us anything special for them because we are the Knicks and that never happens for us. Despite his poor shooting overall Quick has been apart of most of the best performing group of players on the team. Trading him and keeping the players who are continually a net negative like Evan is a quick way to get a FO fired.
martin
Posts: 67880
Alba Posts: 108
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #2
USA
11/18/2022  11:52 AM
You come from a very pessimistic perspective, you gonna miss things.

What if the talks were Rose/IQ, picks for SGA? It's not a realistic deal but you get the point.

We don't really know what IQ talks are about and you've made some assumptions.

Clean wrote:As time goes by the more I am becoming skeptical about this FO. A lot of suspect decisions have been going on. If they are going to trade the young players anyway why keep them out of the Mitchell trade. No one is going to give us anything special for them because we are the Knicks and that never happens for us. Despite his poor shooting overall Quick has been apart of most of the best performing group of players on the team. Trading him and keeping the players who are continually a net negative like Evan is a quick way to get a FO fired.
Official sponsor of the PURE KNICKS LOVE Program
Knixkik
Posts: 34856
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #11
USA
11/18/2022  11:55 AM
Clean wrote:As time goes by the more I am becoming skeptical about this FO. A lot of suspect decisions have been going on. If they are going to trade the young players anyway why keep them out of the Mitchell trade. No one is going to give us anything special for them because we are the Knicks and that never happens for us. Despite his poor shooting overall Quick has been apart of most of the best performing group of players on the team. Trading him and keeping the players who are continually a net negative like Evan is a quick way to get a FO fired.

Obviously if the Knicks get calls about Quickley they are going to listen simply because he’s not untouchable. They aren’t getting calls on Fournier. And they are clearly trying to hoard picks for the next big piece. This front office just keeps kicking the can down the road which is growing old, but I get why they aren’t go all-in for anything less at the same time.

SergioNYK
Posts: 21800
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/8/2002
Member: #333
USA
11/18/2022  12:09 PM
I honestly not attached to any player. I like a lot of them but if there is a trade that is fair and makes us better, pull the trigger!

I like IQ and I'd like to keep him but if we can upgrade at guard or wing or use him as a filler for a big trade, do it.

Sending Rose to a contender ala Marcus Morris makes a lot of sense. We gotta take a look at Deuce.

Clean
Posts: 28613
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 8/22/2004
Member: #743
11/18/2022  12:09 PM
martin wrote:You come from a very pessimistic perspective, you gonna miss things.

What if the talks were Rose/IQ, picks for SGA? It's not a realistic deal but you get the point.

We don't really know what IQ talks are about and you've made some assumptions.

Clean wrote:As time goes by the more I am becoming skeptical about this FO. A lot of suspect decisions have been going on. If they are going to trade the young players anyway why keep them out of the Mitchell trade. No one is going to give us anything special for them because we are the Knicks and that never happens for us. Despite his poor shooting overall Quick has been apart of most of the best performing group of players on the team. Trading him and keeping the players who are continually a net negative like Evan is a quick way to get a FO fired.

I might be pessimistic but after 20 years of being the 2nd worst team in basketball will do that to you. We have the 2nd least wins of any team over that period.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/worst-nba-record-last-20-years


We also never get sweet heart deals for star players so I don't see the problem in not expecting it to happen now. Teams only want to trade with us if they can make us overpay.

Uptown
Posts: 30878
Alba Posts: 3
Joined: 4/1/2008
Member: #1883

11/18/2022  12:10 PM
Rose is the obvious guard to trade, not Quickley. Moving Rose will clear the glut at the guard spot and it will allow Quickley the opportunity to lead the 2nd unit, an opportunity I thought he earned with the way he closed last season. Quick is our best defender at the guard spot. When he is hot from the field, he is elite 2-way player. Not saying he should be completely off limits, depending on what we are getting back, I would not be eager to move him...
martin
Posts: 67880
Alba Posts: 108
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #2
USA
11/18/2022  12:17 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/18/2022  12:18 PM
Clean wrote:
martin wrote:You come from a very pessimistic perspective, you gonna miss things.

What if the talks were Rose/IQ, picks for SGA? It's not a realistic deal but you get the point.

We don't really know what IQ talks are about and you've made some assumptions.

Clean wrote:As time goes by the more I am becoming skeptical about this FO. A lot of suspect decisions have been going on. If they are going to trade the young players anyway why keep them out of the Mitchell trade. No one is going to give us anything special for them because we are the Knicks and that never happens for us. Despite his poor shooting overall Quick has been apart of most of the best performing group of players on the team. Trading him and keeping the players who are continually a net negative like Evan is a quick way to get a FO fired.

I might be pessimistic but after 20 years of being the 2nd worst team in basketball will do that to you. We have the 2nd least wins of any team over that period.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/worst-nba-record-last-20-years


We also never get sweet heart deals for star players so I don't see the problem in not expecting it to happen now. Teams only want to trade with us if they can make us overpay.

All you are doing is putting yourself in a place to judge the current FO by what happened in the prior 20 years and using that as an excuse.

Can you imagine dating someone new and having that person judge YOU by the previous person they dated? That's how jaded you are right now, that's the glasses you are wearing and the lens you are looking through.

It'll knock you back every time

Official sponsor of the PURE KNICKS LOVE Program
Clean
Posts: 28613
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 8/22/2004
Member: #743
11/18/2022  12:17 PM
Knixkik wrote:
Clean wrote:As time goes by the more I am becoming skeptical about this FO. A lot of suspect decisions have been going on. If they are going to trade the young players anyway why keep them out of the Mitchell trade. No one is going to give us anything special for them because we are the Knicks and that never happens for us. Despite his poor shooting overall Quick has been apart of most of the best performing group of players on the team. Trading him and keeping the players who are continually a net negative like Evan is a quick way to get a FO fired.

Obviously if the Knicks get calls about Quickley they are going to listen simply because he’s not untouchable. They aren’t getting calls on Fournier. And they are clearly trying to hoard picks for the next big piece. This front office just keeps kicking the can down the road which is growing old, but I get why they aren’t go all-in for anything less at the same time.

I get that they are not getting calls for Evan but I just don't see teams giving us a player who is a huge upgrade over Quick. The Knicks would not part with our good picks for Mitchell so I think it is safe to say they will not part with them for a player worse than Mitchell. Also if Quick would have been in trade talks for a star player the star player would be the headline when talking about the trade not Quick. All the signs are pointing to them just making a trade because they don't want to pay quick in addition to clearing the logjam at guard. The problem is by clearing the logjam we will be left with Evans having to get minutes since no one wants him.

Clean
Posts: 28613
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 8/22/2004
Member: #743
11/18/2022  12:24 PM
martin wrote:
Clean wrote:
martin wrote:You come from a very pessimistic perspective, you gonna miss things.

What if the talks were Rose/IQ, picks for SGA? It's not a realistic deal but you get the point.

We don't really know what IQ talks are about and you've made some assumptions.

Clean wrote:As time goes by the more I am becoming skeptical about this FO. A lot of suspect decisions have been going on. If they are going to trade the young players anyway why keep them out of the Mitchell trade. No one is going to give us anything special for them because we are the Knicks and that never happens for us. Despite his poor shooting overall Quick has been apart of most of the best performing group of players on the team. Trading him and keeping the players who are continually a net negative like Evan is a quick way to get a FO fired.

I might be pessimistic but after 20 years of being the 2nd worst team in basketball will do that to you. We have the 2nd least wins of any team over that period.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/worst-nba-record-last-20-years


We also never get sweet heart deals for star players so I don't see the problem in not expecting it to happen now. Teams only want to trade with us if they can make us overpay.

All you are doing is putting yourself in a place to judge the current FO by what happening in the prior 20 years and using that as an excuse.

Can you imagine dating someone new and having that person judge YOU by the previous person they dated? That's how jaded you are right now, that's the glasses you are wearing and the lens you are looking through.

It'll knock you back every time

The last 20 years was the reason for me being pessimistic. Not for me judging the team. I am judging the FO on their moves. Off the top of my head Evan was a bad move. Randle was a bad move. Noel was a bad move. Kemba was a bad move. That is a lot of money and assets that we committed to paying those contracts or for trading the bad contracts away.

martin
Posts: 67880
Alba Posts: 108
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #2
USA
11/18/2022  12:35 PM
Clean wrote:
martin wrote:
Clean wrote:
martin wrote:You come from a very pessimistic perspective, you gonna miss things.

What if the talks were Rose/IQ, picks for SGA? It's not a realistic deal but you get the point.

We don't really know what IQ talks are about and you've made some assumptions.

Clean wrote:As time goes by the more I am becoming skeptical about this FO. A lot of suspect decisions have been going on. If they are going to trade the young players anyway why keep them out of the Mitchell trade. No one is going to give us anything special for them because we are the Knicks and that never happens for us. Despite his poor shooting overall Quick has been apart of most of the best performing group of players on the team. Trading him and keeping the players who are continually a net negative like Evan is a quick way to get a FO fired.

I might be pessimistic but after 20 years of being the 2nd worst team in basketball will do that to you. We have the 2nd least wins of any team over that period.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/worst-nba-record-last-20-years


We also never get sweet heart deals for star players so I don't see the problem in not expecting it to happen now. Teams only want to trade with us if they can make us overpay.

All you are doing is putting yourself in a place to judge the current FO by what happening in the prior 20 years and using that as an excuse.

Can you imagine dating someone new and having that person judge YOU by the previous person they dated? That's how jaded you are right now, that's the glasses you are wearing and the lens you are looking through.

It'll knock you back every time

The last 20 years was the reason for me being pessimistic. Not for me judging the team. I am judging the FO on their moves. Off the top of my head Evan was a bad move. Randle was a bad move. Noel was a bad move. Kemba was a bad move. That is a lot of money and assets that we committed to paying those contracts or for trading the bad contracts away.

Find your joy man, it's effecting your judgement

Official sponsor of the PURE KNICKS LOVE Program
foosballnick
Posts: 21411
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 6/17/2010
Member: #3148

11/18/2022  12:39 PM
Clean wrote:As time goes by the more I am becoming skeptical about this FO. A lot of suspect decisions have been going on. If they are going to trade the young players anyway why keep them out of the Mitchell trade. No one is going to give us anything special for them because we are the Knicks and that never happens for us. Despite his poor shooting overall Quick has been apart of most of the best performing group of players on the team. Trading him and keeping the players who are continually a net negative like Evan is a quick way to get a FO fired.

You're starting to become skeptical about the FO based on media rumors and nothing special ever happens because we are the Knicks.....LOL

Rose and this front office inherited a team that won 21 games and finished 12th in conference. Trier, Iggy, Ellington, Knox, Frank, Dotson and Harkless as well as an ineffective DSJ were in the rotation - and in many cases getting significant or starter minutes. Ask yourself - how much better is the roster now than the one that was inherited - also factoring in the retained/increased draft assets. Also - was anyone expecting the Knicks to have progressed from a bottom of the bottom feeder into a championship roster after 2 seasons with this FO? Perhaps fans need to put the 2020 COVID season on the shelf as an outlier due to weird circumstances and lower expectations in terms of what progression looks like.

Seems to me that some Knicks fans are caught up in micro analysis instead of macro view. The previous FO tried the Tanking thing....fans were unhappy and it failed. This FO is trying the slow tinkering type build - but its not fast enough for many fans who are impatient and still unhappy.

Let's review the net players that Leon has added to the current roster:

Brunson
Obi
Reddish
I Hart
Rose
Fournier
Sims
Grimes
Deuce

Tinkering involves adjustments to mistakes along the way....and every FO makes some mistakes. But on the whole, with the possible exception of Fournier - these players have all been a net positive upgrade vs. the players inherited by the FO and now discarded. If Rose is sending out feelers to try and leverage some of the current roster for an A Player - I'm all for it - as this is part of what the slow tinkering build process should be.

foosballnick
Posts: 21411
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 6/17/2010
Member: #3148

11/18/2022  12:47 PM
Clean wrote:
martin wrote:
Clean wrote:
martin wrote:You come from a very pessimistic perspective, you gonna miss things.

What if the talks were Rose/IQ, picks for SGA? It's not a realistic deal but you get the point.

We don't really know what IQ talks are about and you've made some assumptions.

Clean wrote:As time goes by the more I am becoming skeptical about this FO. A lot of suspect decisions have been going on. If they are going to trade the young players anyway why keep them out of the Mitchell trade. No one is going to give us anything special for them because we are the Knicks and that never happens for us. Despite his poor shooting overall Quick has been apart of most of the best performing group of players on the team. Trading him and keeping the players who are continually a net negative like Evan is a quick way to get a FO fired.

I might be pessimistic but after 20 years of being the 2nd worst team in basketball will do that to you. We have the 2nd least wins of any team over that period.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/worst-nba-record-last-20-years


We also never get sweet heart deals for star players so I don't see the problem in not expecting it to happen now. Teams only want to trade with us if they can make us overpay.

All you are doing is putting yourself in a place to judge the current FO by what happening in the prior 20 years and using that as an excuse.

Can you imagine dating someone new and having that person judge YOU by the previous person they dated? That's how jaded you are right now, that's the glasses you are wearing and the lens you are looking through.

It'll knock you back every time

The last 20 years was the reason for me being pessimistic. Not for me judging the team. I am judging the FO on their moves. Off the top of my head Evan was a bad move. Randle was a bad move. Noel was a bad move. Kemba was a bad move. That is a lot of money and assets that we committed to paying those contracts or for trading the bad contracts away.

Randle is still a TBD. Kemba and Noel were traded and turned into other assets/players. Evan looks like a significant overpay. Every FO makes mistakes.

If someone gets a D on a quiz but still end up with a B grade for the marking period - do you focus on the quiz or the final grade?

Leon's final grade is still a TBD.

Chandler
Posts: 25959
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/26/2015
Member: #6197

11/18/2022  12:53 PM
i hope we keeP IQ

i don't watch much college hoops but i remember watching a Kentucky game at the time (to see Maxey) and all i kept seeing was IQ playing sound though not spectacular ball

on this site i raised his name once or twice having no idea whether he'd be drafted at all let alone by the Knicks

i have come to admire, particularly, his attitude. My hope is the KNicks build a culture drafting and developing guys like IQ Toppin Grimes (Rokas?) SIms. A lot of these guys play with high energy and (for the most part) unselfishness. they all seem very team oriented.

so yes, you'd have to listen if someone is considering moving SGA or the like but it would have to be one of those offers yuo can't refuse

(5)(5)
fishmike
Posts: 53028
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/19/2002
Member: #298
USA
11/18/2022  1:00 PM
foosballnick wrote:
Clean wrote:
martin wrote:
Clean wrote:
martin wrote:You come from a very pessimistic perspective, you gonna miss things.

What if the talks were Rose/IQ, picks for SGA? It's not a realistic deal but you get the point.

We don't really know what IQ talks are about and you've made some assumptions.

Clean wrote:As time goes by the more I am becoming skeptical about this FO. A lot of suspect decisions have been going on. If they are going to trade the young players anyway why keep them out of the Mitchell trade. No one is going to give us anything special for them because we are the Knicks and that never happens for us. Despite his poor shooting overall Quick has been apart of most of the best performing group of players on the team. Trading him and keeping the players who are continually a net negative like Evan is a quick way to get a FO fired.

I might be pessimistic but after 20 years of being the 2nd worst team in basketball will do that to you. We have the 2nd least wins of any team over that period.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/worst-nba-record-last-20-years


We also never get sweet heart deals for star players so I don't see the problem in not expecting it to happen now. Teams only want to trade with us if they can make us overpay.

All you are doing is putting yourself in a place to judge the current FO by what happening in the prior 20 years and using that as an excuse.

Can you imagine dating someone new and having that person judge YOU by the previous person they dated? That's how jaded you are right now, that's the glasses you are wearing and the lens you are looking through.

It'll knock you back every time

The last 20 years was the reason for me being pessimistic. Not for me judging the team. I am judging the FO on their moves. Off the top of my head Evan was a bad move. Randle was a bad move. Noel was a bad move. Kemba was a bad move. That is a lot of money and assets that we committed to paying those contracts or for trading the bad contracts away.

Randle is still a TBD. Kemba and Noel were traded and turned into other assets/players. Evan looks like a significant overpay. Every FO makes mistakes.

If someone gets a D on a quiz but still end up with a B grade for the marking period - do you focus on the quiz or the final grade?

Leon's final grade is still a TBD.

team is managed well. Jerry West drafted scrubs. It happens. We have no tossed away any assets. We are working all the draft angles. We have shown a real commitment to player development. 60% of the rotation is 24 or younger. We have a significant surplus of draft picks as well as a young player in EU regarded as a blue chip prospects.

Obviously we need to turn all this into a couple stars to be an elite team. There's a lot of ways you can get lucky there but this appears to be as tactical an approach as I have seen.

Im fine being patient so long as we arent trading the future for saviors.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
KnickDanger
Posts: 23938
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/30/2017
Member: #7578

11/18/2022  1:16 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/18/2022  1:19 PM
Chandler wrote:i hope we keeP IQ

i don't watch much college hoops but i remember watching a Kentucky game at the time (to see Maxey) and all i kept seeing was IQ playing sound though not spectacular ball

on this site i raised his name once or twice having no idea whether he'd be drafted at all let alone by the Knicks

i have come to admire, particularly, his attitude. My hope is the KNicks build a culture drafting and developing guys like IQ Toppin Grimes (Rokas?) SIms. A lot of these guys play with high energy and (for the most part) unselfishness. they all seem very team oriented.

so yes, you'd have to listen if someone is considering moving SGA or the like but it would have to be one of those offers yuo can't refuse

I'm guessing this is by design, not an accident. Perhaps there were a few players out there with a so called "higher ceiling," but weren't seen as fitting the hard working team oriented goal. I am all for that.

Clean
Posts: 28613
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 8/22/2004
Member: #743
11/18/2022  1:36 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/18/2022  1:38 PM
foosballnick wrote:
Clean wrote:
martin wrote:
Clean wrote:
martin wrote:You come from a very pessimistic perspective, you gonna miss things.

What if the talks were Rose/IQ, picks for SGA? It's not a realistic deal but you get the point.

We don't really know what IQ talks are about and you've made some assumptions.

Clean wrote:As time goes by the more I am becoming skeptical about this FO. A lot of suspect decisions have been going on. If they are going to trade the young players anyway why keep them out of the Mitchell trade. No one is going to give us anything special for them because we are the Knicks and that never happens for us. Despite his poor shooting overall Quick has been apart of most of the best performing group of players on the team. Trading him and keeping the players who are continually a net negative like Evan is a quick way to get a FO fired.

I might be pessimistic but after 20 years of being the 2nd worst team in basketball will do that to you. We have the 2nd least wins of any team over that period.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/worst-nba-record-last-20-years


We also never get sweet heart deals for star players so I don't see the problem in not expecting it to happen now. Teams only want to trade with us if they can make us overpay.

All you are doing is putting yourself in a place to judge the current FO by what happening in the prior 20 years and using that as an excuse.

Can you imagine dating someone new and having that person judge YOU by the previous person they dated? That's how jaded you are right now, that's the glasses you are wearing and the lens you are looking through.

It'll knock you back every time

The last 20 years was the reason for me being pessimistic. Not for me judging the team. I am judging the FO on their moves. Off the top of my head Evan was a bad move. Randle was a bad move. Noel was a bad move. Kemba was a bad move. That is a lot of money and assets that we committed to paying those contracts or for trading the bad contracts away.

Randle is still a TBD. Kemba and Noel were traded and turned into other assets/players. Evan looks like a significant overpay. Every FO makes mistakes.

If someone gets a D on a quiz but still end up with a B grade for the marking period - do you focus on the quiz or the final grade?

Leon's final grade is still a TBD.

No one wants Randle so I don't think it is still TBD. We would have to attach assets to get rid of him. So that means he is a negative asset. I never said their grade was final. Here is the first sentence in my original post "As time goes by the more I am becoming skeptical about this FO." Nothing there says anything is final.

Kemba and Noel were traded WITH assets not traded for assets.

We essentially had to trade our 11th pick and a bunch of 2nd round picks to get out of Kemba, Noel and Burks contracts.

Some Rose, IQ discussions going on around league

©2001-2012 ultimateknicks.comm All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.

Terms of Use and Privacy Policy